[US politics] Appeals court denies parents' request to rehear Schiavo case

[Sazar]

Sazar,

My wife is a Nurse and she works in a Dialysis center. I have seen patients with a good quality of life, get their treatments and be functioning human beings in society. I have also seen patients who are in the same state, get dialysis treatments and be totally unaware, of what is going on. There is and remains a quality of life, in cases like this her remaining days will be spent in the same condition. To extend this would bring a quantity to life, but not a quality. She has been in this condition for 15 years, if she would have recovered she would have done it in the first 5 years of her condition. This is not starvatation as we know it, just like in dialysis the body would begin to shut down and the death would be peaceful. I know becuase my grandmother passed away, this time last year. She chose to stop dialysis, because her pain was too much, she died peacefully.

Falcon, I share your POV on this matter.

I must have mis-understood what the original poster implied. It was early in the morning and I think I took it to mean the opposite of what he might have meant.

 

[skizo]

I wonder how many people there are that say, "If I'm a vegetable, keep me that way."

I know none.

 

[Perris Calderon]

*raises hand

 

[jimi_81]

This is so complicated. I think the parents are in a permanent state of denial.

My family was almost in a similar predicament, however things turned out a little differently. My mother went into heart failure back in May 2004 and required emergency open heart surgery. She was saved but had suffered major damage to her heart. It took her 2 weeks to wake up (on her 49th birthday), and she spent over 2 months in the hospital. The surgeon told us to say our goodbyes because he felt she didnt have a chance. Well, she improved...marginally to the point where she could breathe and eat on her own.

Almost a year has gone by and she isnt doing so well. We've had to readjust everything in the house so she can access things without having to go up and down the stairs. Essentially turning a 3 level house into a one level. taking 4 steps up a flight of stairs is very tiring for her. she doesnt drive anymore because her medications make her extremely dizzy, and nauceous, her social life basically depends on whether or not she has visitors...its very difficult.

although she survived what many would consider a tragic end, she sometimes questions why the surgeon tried so hard to save her. this is upsetting to hear, but it is a response to the problem she faces each and every day. her quality of life is almost non-existent. if she had it her way, she wouldnt have wanted to make it. heart failure is uncurable, and eventually weakens the heart to the point where it has no function left.

For Mrs. Schiavo, i wish they didnt have to starve her, i wish there was something more humane. but again, i believe that her parents have never accepted the fact of losing her. that is something my family/many families had/have to do, and it was/is the toughest thing imaginable.

 

[Sazar]

She is not being starved to death. This fallacy is being spread by ignorance.

She will die of dehydration a long time before she would actually starve to death.

 

[GMeagle86]

Here is what I find scary...For the first time in American History, a judge ordered a non-criminal put to death. While the judge could have just given permission for one party or another-(even her husband) to choose when to remove the tube, but instead, he ordered it removed.

This just sets a very dangerous precedent. I'm all for judges that just interpret the law. It seems that we have become a nation of courts, that the rule of our elected representatives is being usurped by a few judges.

 

[Sazar]

The judge did not put anyone to death and abided fully with the laws in Florida. Double check the consitution of florida as well as the statutes which he invoked.

The only usurping being done here is by Jeb Bush (numerous times) and by the congress and the republicans and democrats retarded enough to trample over one states judicial system for something they have no clue about.

Tom Delay leads the charge of the blind rushing in to "help" the "weak" while pandering to the religious right in their "cause"

The judge has upheld all the previous rulings on this case since it came to court many many years ago and I applaud his actions. Congress, DeLay and Jeb Bush have all established incredibly dangerous and dicey precedence in this case and it'll be interesting how we react when we get f*cked over in the near future because of the daftness of the Schindlers and their continual grabbing at straws.

Gmeagle, your understanding of the law and the separation of powers is incredibly misguided in this case. No offense but if you cannot see how the actions of the politicians from 2001 through to now in this case has affected the judicial process not just in Florida but every single state and how it messes up the constitutionally protected rights of the people/states, you have a lot of learning to do.

 

[jimi_81]

She is not being starved to death. This fallacy is being spread by ignorance.

She will die of dehydration a long time before she would actually starve to death.

Ok, you are right, she wont starve.
She needs nutrition. Potassium is important for heart cells to function properly, especially in heart failure patients.

 

[Shamus MacNoob]

Yeah she wont starve fool she is dry up and then die!! I say the parents should have the right to do what they feel is right its no one else's place to make the call, if the husband has moved on then the courts could free him of all ties and let him get on with his life, as for who pays well that depends on where you live I guess here in Canada we all pay for everyone no matter what.


peace.

 

[Sazar]

What purpose is there to keeping her on a feeding tube?

 

[Shamus MacNoob]

If it was your little girl then you would have the same right as they should have seeing as her husband wants out then he should be freed of the burdon but the parents are the ones that should have the rights to say yes or no unless it was stated by the person while alive that certain measures should be taken in case of ...

There does not need to be a purpose that satifies your needs or wants this is their little girl not yours. If it is because of $ then if the state so wishes they can say sorry no more $ but like I said that depends on where you live here in Canada like I said we pay for everyones health.

But this is not about you or what you feel is it? This is about something that only the parents and the hospital were she is should be involved in. This is no place for lawyers, judges.. this should never have happened.

 

[falconguard]

Look , if you want to keep parental responsibilities to your child , then teach them to not get married. Spousal benefits and problems come from marriage, insurance beneficiary, to medical care. Once this happens the legal onus is with the spouse, In legalese the weight of the care is spouse, oldest adult child, parents. The Parents, do not want to let go, Michael Schiavo never divorced his wife, so the parents are throwing moot arguments out, and extending this nonsense. If you want inalienable rights to your kids, then tell them don't get married.

 

[Perris Calderon]

you think you give up your love when your child marries?

it doesn't matter what the law has to say when you think your child is about to be murdered

a parent does what a parent needs to do...what the law has to say about that means nothing

 

[lancer]

I know this must be real difficult, but i know if my daughter was in Terri's state, (which is no state at all), i would want her to drift away slowly.

But i don't agree that she should be starved to death, what the **** is that about. Can they just put her to sleep.

 

[falconguard]

good grief !!
This is about the law, the law has upheld the husbands rights at every interval, it is the parents who refuse to let go.
Spousal rights supercede those of the parents, no matter how they feel about it. Who would no more about an Advanced directive, the spouse or the parents , who are not on any beneficiary forms?

This is not starvation as you know it, she is hooked up intravenously to a subsistence level glucose cocktail, and fed through a tube. She cannot eat on her own. She has to have her own saliva suctioned out becuase she lacks the gag reflex to swallow or spit up.
for those of you who think this is painful , you are woefully misinformed
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...3mar23,1,6150421.story?coll=la-home-headlines

 

[Perris Calderon]

it's not about the law falcongurard....just people want to make beleive this is about the law..it's about the love a parent has for a child they thiink needs their protection from being murdered

the law places second in this for my family

what about yours?

this family believes their child is being murdered in case you didn't know it...it doesn't matter how you feel about that...this is what they feel

are you saying you would let your child be murdered because the law said it's fine?

you are under the impression that this family thinks as you and I do, that it's better to let her go

they don't...they think she's being murdered and they struggle to protect her.

If I thought my child were still alive and struggling to live, I would stand by her door, my shotgun in hand...before you now I'll tell you, my child would without any doubt, get the nurishment she needs to live and struggle on.

 

[jimi_81]

who is her legal guardian?
I believe its the husband.

Unless there is a legal separation that doesnt change.
correct me if im wrong.

 

[Perris Calderon]

once again, it doesn't matter who her legal guardian when it comes to protecting her from murder.

her parents think the "legal guardian" wants to muder their little girl...what would you do if you thought your daughters husband was about to murder your little girl?

answer that question for me please.

 

[falconguard]

murder implies the intent to kill, She and her husband discussed an advanced directive, therefore he is the legal guardian tasked with her care, he is just removing her from care, will she exist without it? can she exist without it?
in either case the answer is no, she needs care to remain alive, this is not murder, you are confusing the issue.
My thoughts have already been made clear on this.

 

[Perris Calderon]

first of all, I'm not confusing the issue...you are trying to mold the obvious complexity of this situation into your own compact definition of terms so it suits you....this is a complicated issue...this is a fact.

as far as the word "murder"...whatever word you want use doesn't change the course of action a parent HAS to take in behalf of their legasy

their parents know as a fact that the husband wants to end the life of their daughter who they think is struggling to survive.

the word you use to describe the husbands action doesn't change one iota the clear and obvious course of action they have to take

so I need to ask you once more...what would you do if you felt your daughters husband were about to end the life of your child, though you thought she struggled to survive?