[US politics] Appeals court denies parents' request to rehear Schiavo case

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by VenomXt, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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  2. rotjong

    rotjong Moderator

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    This case encompasses too many side issues. It is becoming a focal point for Pro-Life groups, Anti-Death Penalty Groups, etc. The case really is becoming too far off the mark in the political arena.

    The woman has been brain-dead for 15 years. The damage done is irreversible. This isn't beyond doubt. Her brain is physically damaged to the point she will not recover.

    I feel for her husband and I feel for her parents. I feel more for the husband, however. He's been accused of being in all this for the money and then running and he's even been indirectly accused of having caused his wife to end up in the coma due to "possible" abuse.

    The parents have marketed their videos of their daughter responding to them and have had it splashed all over the media which has further fanned the flames for the Pro-Life side of the issue. What they rarely say is that this is a mere 4 hours of video out of the last 15 years. With that much time to work with I am sure anyone could compile "supposed" video of a person responding even though they are in a vegetative state. The parents and the husband were never able to have a third party independently verify she was not aware. But, the facts are, with her state and the information from more than enough doctors that she is not aware. The video is simply not enough evidence.

    Schiavo won't recover. She won't get better. Let her husband move on with his life. He parents also need to let go and move on. This is a difficult thing to do. I know from personal experience what it is to watch a loved one on life support and I know what it's like to tell the hospital to stop trying. This is never easy. The husband's wishes, however, should rate higher than her parents, IMO.

    The Florida courts ruled in favor of the husband. Gov. Jeb Bush had no business sticking his nose into this. Jeb Bush was slapped down by the Florida Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court wants nothing to do with this case. The Courts have simply said let it end. But, that isn't enough. The U.S. Congress had to stick their noses in and President Bush even signed the bill. IMO this is the Legislative and Executive branches of the U.S. overstepping their bounds. The Legislature writes the laws. The Courts interpret the laws and the Courts said let it happen. The Legislature did an end-run and wrote a bill to specifically deal with this singular case. The Federal Court heard the case and again they ruled in Mr. Schiavo's favor. What more does it take to get through the parents head and that of the Pro-Life people that the Courts will not stop this. This is such an utter political game and, frankly, something I see as being an absolute waste of money and time when far more important National and International issues need to be dealt with. I'm not downplaying the issue of death, I'm being realistic.

    I, personally, have a Living Will. I'm too young for a DNR because you have to renew them too often and it's too much of a hassle. Nonetheless, if I am ever in an accident or something happens then I want no life support. If I can't breathe on my own then I want to die. If my heart can't beat on its own and stops then let me die. I'm either fully me and fully alive or I'm dead. I will not be a prisoner in a body that is incapable doing anything and I won't burden loved ones with me in such a state.

    I have lived through watching and trying to effectively take care of someone in an unresponsive state on a feeding tube. For numerous years before that they were getting sick and it was going downhill. It's not an easy experience and no one who has not been through it can fully understand how it is. It takes an enormous toll on you both physically and emotionally. The danger is falling in too far. You end up living simply a day at a time because the pressures become so high and it seems like you, yourself, are imprisoned. This doesn't mean you don't love the person. If anything it is the opposite. But, the less you can help them the more guilty you can feel and the more you try to do. You will, at some point, reach a breaking point. How long you can last is different for different people. I lasted 7 years and I didn't break but I came out of it a far different person that I was when it all started. I'm better for it but I have a large hole in my life. Those 7 years are missing because my entire life was put on pause. Do I regret losing the 7 years? No, I do not. But it was painful and I don't wish pain like that on anyone.

    Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter. I'm sure many others have different opinions and I respect them to a point. But, I'm sure others may or may not respect my opinion. To each their own.

    rotjong
     
  3. Evil Marge

    Evil Marge I Rule Political User

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    I've told my family that if I ever end up like that to just let me go,I don't want keeping alive.I do not want them to have to see me in that state,I refuse to put them through that.
     
  4. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    well said. I need to make a living will.
     
  5. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy

    Put the Woman down. If she was a Dog she would have gone to meet her maker 15 years ago!
     
  6. Evil Marge

    Evil Marge I Rule Political User

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    We all should do that while we have a chance.All my family are on the Organ donor register too including my 2 kids because you don't know whats round the corner and by telling family what you want before it's too late is the best thing and saves a lot of heartache for them.

    http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/how_to_become_a_donor.jsp
     
  7. Tittles

    Tittles Dabba Dooba Political User

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    I think its stupid that they are letting her live...i mean they pretty much have said she will never recover and be normal or anything. I told everybody that if i ever get like that or anything to put me down. Why would i want them to suffer me being like that or have me suffer? Its pretty pointless...Its ok to put our soldiers in a pointless war to die but u cant put someone thats suffering in a better place? Doesnt make sense...
     
  8. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    i blame the pro-life fanatics and the loby of uber conservitive jackasses.
     
  9. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy


    No blame the parents and the gaggle of P.C. a.holes in your Country that support them.
     
  10. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    Lee, It's not the PC's it's the parents and the religious right.
     
  11. rotjong

    rotjong Moderator

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    I forgot to note in my post about having a Living Will that you also want a Health Care Proxy. Your Living Will only states what they cannot do to you. Your Health Care Proxy states who can make decisions when you are unable but yet still "alive". I have both of these. Without the Health Care Proxy the Living Will is weakened in value, IMO.

    rotjong
     
  12. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    From what I've heard nobody has said there is no way she would recover. In fact she was on her way to recovery before her husband won "their" settlement against doctors that misdiagnosed her. Oh and before he found a new girl friend. ;) Once that happend he cut off her rehab and then 7 years later remembered she said she didn't wanna live like that because she had mentioned something while they watched TV one night. She also has signs of broken bones (from abuse?). The whole case is very odd.
     
  13. GMeagle86

    GMeagle86 OSNN Addict

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    I agree with Xie, I find this case very strange. The fact is, someone still cares about Terri. It isn't going to be easy for anyone to take care of her. But if they think there is ANY chance that she can recover why not let them take care of her.

    What I don't get is Michael. He was even offered a MILLION dollars to give up his right as the primary caregiver, he has a life with another woman and the kids he had with her, he is going to have massive legal fees. He acts like he wants her killed, because he isn't even considering any other options.

    I say let the parents take care of their daughter, let them provide the medical tests she needs, once all of that has been done, then let's see what the results are.

    It is a very strange case, but I'm going to have to agree with President Bush for now, that in cases such as this, it is better to choose life.

    It should serve as an incentive to all of us to go write down what our wishes are, if something like this should ever happen to us.
     
  14. rotjong

    rotjong Moderator

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    First of all this is biased media attention on it.

    1. She was given something containing what I would believe large doses of potassium by their fertility clinic. This is what lead to the coma AND why they sued the fertility clinic and won.
    2. She has been bulemic and bulemia causes damages of its own to the human body. It's been years since I did any reading on bulemia but I could swear it lead to calcium loss and as a result bone weakness. Nonetheless, I've never heard the mention of broken bones and no one has actually verified or really mentioned the abuse until it was an excuse to stop the husband from having the plug pulled. Once they finger him for having abused his wife then the parents can take away control and keep her alive. The motives here are pretty obvious. Why was the abuse never mentioned before now? Well, like I said, it was done for a reason.
    3. When she checked her brain years later a portion of her brain necessary for conscious processes was no longer useable. Meaning, she can't recover.
    4. A person was put in charge to investigate this situation and after talking to a lot of different medical people and looking at everything involved he found she was beyond recovery. They were about to set up an independent testing process to PROVE this when things fell through so these tests were never done.
    5. He took care of her for 5 years after she went into the coma BEFORE he got any money from the lawsuit and told the doctors she would get better. She didn't. She won't. He did win the lawsuit but this doesn't make him guilty. He finally saw the reality of the matter... she won't get better. So he can't move on with his life? He can't ever fall in love again? That's bull****.
    6. He's been accused of not having used the money he spent on her and instead used it improperly. This is false. He did spend it on her. In fact he has been basically broke for the last 4 years as a result of all of this. So much for a man who made millions and dumped his comatose wife.
    7. It was 7 years and he realized she wasn't going to recover. Whether she ever said "I wouldn't want to live like that" really doesn't matter. She will not recover, period. Why make the parents suffer longer? Why make the husband suffer longer? And don't think for one second that just because he has a new girlfriend and has had kids with her that he isn't suffering. You'd have to live through something like this to understand the realities of it and how it feels.
    8. The Pro-Life groups, The Anti-Death Penalty groups and the politicians are making a mockery of the situation at the expense of the people who really matter: the parents and the husband. The "groups" are simply trying to yet again infringe on individual rights and instead promote an ideology in the name of caring for this woman. It's a mockery.
    9. Jeb Bush has just found a neurologist who says she is okay. Of course he did but notice he found ONE. Many have independently already said she can't recover. I wonder how many Jeb went through before he found one that would say what he wanted.
    10. Funny how President Bush signed the bill when he was previously Governor of the state that performs the most executions in the U.S. and at least once has accounted for 25% of them in a single year if not more. It's already been proven that there is not a 100% accuracy rate in sentencing people to death. Innocent people have died. Yet in this case which is so clear cut... it suddenly is so different. Huh. Now that makes sense, doesn't it?

    rotjong
     
  15. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    a gray issue to be sure.

    I don't think anyone can think this women is brain dead if all she needs is to be given food and water.

    the husband doesn't want her to live?

    who is he?

    if she's allready dead, there is no harm to keep feeding her is there, she's allready dead after all.

    if she's not allready dead, how would the harm of starving her be recovered?

    I really don't get it...let her parents feed their child...if this were my child, and I thought I could see life or the hope of it, I would grab every weapon I could find and I would prevent ANYONE from killing my child

    and I would be shot dead to the ground before my innocent child would be starved to death by this or any government
     
  16. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    Perris, you do realize that you are agreeing with the President.

    I believe the issue is, as always, money, it costs about $80,000 a month to keep this woman alive. The money won in the lawsuit is long gone. I personally wouldn't want to be kept alive in the state she's in. My grandfather was in a similar state after he had a massive heart attack for about three months, I couldn't imagine the pain of it on my family if he had lasted 15 years.
     
  17. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    there are plenty of things this president has done or proposes to do that I agree with joe.

    there are plenty of things I don't.

    this is true for me of all presidents, it doesn't matter the party...unlike "party loyalists" that choose their party regardless of the damage to this country, I don't have a team loyalty...right and wrong, good or bad, this is the measure.

    a good ideal I think everyone would be wise to emulate

    as far as the issues at hand;

    I don't doubt there are families that would think it's best to "let the child die", however, nobody could deny that there would be families that would "want their child to live"

    I think that they should be allowed to feed their child, but at their own expense, not the states expense.
     
  18. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    I think the problem here is complex. I don't think too many think that she has a chance of even a partial recovery, but she is also not on life support. It isn't a "pull the plug" case, since she breathes on her own, but for all intents and purposes a vegetable. This is a tough one, I believe it is the families choice, not the government's, and the husband is the de facto guardian, so legally it is his choice.

    I just find the whole thing depressing, but in my honest opinion, just let her go, I think it is selfish of the parents, which sounds harsh but isn't meant to be, since they just want to cling on to the smallest hope, which I can understand, but after a while, just let her go. I truly think that would be best, but again, only my opinion.
     
  19. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    This woman, has no brain capacity beyond that of simple autonomic nature.

    The very fact that she cannot feed or drink proves this, there are functions in the human body that are autonomic, Breathing is one, but the fact that she cannot recognize stimulus or be aware of it, such as hunger or pain, means that she is not aware, of anything around her. This is a 15 year old case, if the President and congress wanted to get involved they should have done it 4 years ago when he was elected. STarvation to her would not mean the same as starvatation to you and me, her body would shut down and she would not feel any pain.

    she is only vaguely beyond a vegetable, still not any way to live...
     
  20. RickyC

    RickyC OSNN Addict

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    It's a proven fact that people in a vegetative state still respond to movement around them, this makes it seem that they are 'aware' of their surroundings but is in fact reflex actions from what parts of the brain are still functioning.

    This 'argument' will go on and on. No side is right, no side is wrong. It's happened many times around the world in the past and will continue to happen.
     
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