[US politics] Appeals court denies parents' request to rehear Schiavo case

[lancer]

This is not starvation as you know it, she is hooked up intravenously to a subsistence level glucose cocktail, and fed through a tube. She cannot eat on her own. She has to have her own saliva suctioned out becuase she lacks the gag reflex to swallow or spit up.
for those of you who think this is painful , you are woefully misinformed
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-schaivodeath23mar23,1,6150421.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Falconguard, what are you on about, lets clarify it here, for Terri to die they have to remove the feeding tubes, it will take from 2-3 weeks for her to pass away. Her body will close down, and if (and i hope to god she is brain dead) she is alive in there, she will die a very painful death. Remember what it feels like to be hungry (maybe you have no idea), i grew up a little poor, missed some meals some days. So i have a small understanding, and it hurts. trust me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4382073.stm

God, imagine watching your daughter being starved to death on purpose, under no fault of her own and as the parent you can do NOTHING about it.

It is you falconguard thats woefully miss-informed about a great many things, one of which is being a parent.

I want my position to be clear, i do think she is brain dead, and as such should be able to pass away piecefully, but that still doesn't make it any easier on the parents.

 

[Sazar]

Falconguard, what are you on about, lets clarify it here, for Terri to die they have to remove the feeding tubes, it will take from 2-3 weeks for her to pass away. Her body will close down, and if (and i hope to god she is brain dead) she is alive in there, she will die a very painful death. Remember what it feels like to be hungry (maybe you have no idea), i grew up a little poor, missed some meals some days. So i have a small understanding, and it hurts. trust me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4382073.stm

God, imagine watching your daughter being starved to death on purpose, under no fault of her own and as the parent you can do NOTHING about it.

It is you falconguard thats woefully miss-informed about a great many things, one of which is being a parent.

She has no cerebral cortex. She cannot feel or sense anything.

Falconguard is stating the obvious, please get your facts right before accusing him of being mis-informed.

 

[falconguard]

No, I am a parent, I have seen more of life and death than you can possibly imagine, and that is why I stand firm on what I know. For her existence, as with cancer patients or other terminally ill patients who battle through pain, it is life that is painful. Your analogy to missing meals is bad. The body shuts down, when it is getting subsistence levels of food for homeostasis. It is when the food is meager that the body goes into starvation mode.
I am not of the fanatical religious group that the parents are. When you have seena once strong person, whittle down to nothing, than come back and ask me if you would prolong existence. Until you go through it you have no idea of the demands, The parents refuse to believe, what is in front of them, and for that I pity them...but I do not feel sorry for them

 

[jimi_81]

once again, it doesn't matter who her legal guardian when it comes to protecting her from murder.

her parents think the "legal guardian" wants to muder their little girl...what would you do if you thought your daughters husband was about to murder your little girl?

answer that question for me please.

Perris I dont think I need to answer that question.
I've been in this situation before, as I posted earlier.
A person who has enjoyed so much in their life, when confronted with such drastic change does not want to live with 0 quality of life.

I think we are forgetting that her husband had to endure this tragedy. This happened 15 years ago, to the families involved, that is absolute torture. If Terri could speak and do normal things do you think she would feel sorry for herself? or for what her family had gone through? From experience its the latter.

Her parents are denying the inevitable. Hundreds of thousands of people go through this agony each year. Her case is exceptional in that the media has taken hold of itand put it in everyones living room.

 

[Sazar]

you think you give up your love when your child marries?

it doesn't matter what the law has to say when you think your child is about to be murdered

a parent does what a parent needs to do...what the law has to say about that means nothing

A parent also has to learn to let go.

My grand-father passed away after his 2nd bout with cancer. He won the first but succumbed to the second. It is not an easy matter to let go but that is what you have to do sometimes. My father handled it with dignity and grace and commensurated all the last rites as my grandfather would have wanted.

The Schiavo's, I had a lot of empathy for them back in 1999/2000. Since then they have pissed me off more and more at every turn not because of what they feel about their daughter, but rather in the manner in which they are trampling all over established precedent and state law.

Jeb Bush forcefully re-inserted the tube back in 2001 by going over the head of all the judicial system in Florida, earning brownie points for a completely unprecedented and completely unconstitutional action.

Since then the Schiavo's have become more and more emboldened.

Consider for a moment the implications of the law's that are being hoofed bout in the senate and that which has already come to pass. IF they are not refuted, there are a lot of civil liberties which we currently take for granted that will not be possible. Abortion for example is just a simple, obvious example.

The Schiavo's have provided no evidence whatsoever that Terri will improve, ever, with the technology we have currently and will have in the near future. They have lost every single case brought before the judicial system simply because they have nothing to show for their arguments.

This is beyond a right to live or die because, for all intents and purposes, Terri is dead. She has no electrical activity in her brain. That's as close to brain dead as you can get IMO.

If anyone on this or any other board is able to do what what the Schiavo's have thus far repeatedly failed to do, which is to demonstrate how they will somehow make a brain like Terri's better, please bring the evidence forth so it may be presented along with the Schiavo's ever more ludicrous appeals.

Every single appeal has the same title. We have "ground-breaking and astonishing new evidence which will miraculously cure Terri"

Brilliant, lets see it then.

They have to move on, let Terri die in peace and be happy that she lived a full life while she was healthy. Once they let go things will be a lot easier for them.

For the rest of us, we have to do our best to make sure retards like DeLay and co don't continue pushing for boneheaded legislature like what they have brought forward through congress. That is NOT the place to discuss Terri's case.

 

[Perris Calderon]

what you or I think is a quality of life for this girl isn't the point...I happen to agree with everyone, I think this girl is dead

You are under ethe impression these parents agree with us.

they don't

you are under the impression this girl is eithher dead or suffering

her parents think she is neither...her parents thiink their girl struggles to live on....though I dissagree with their parents, I know as a fact th at if I felt the way they do, the government would have to kill me if they needed to get ome to stop feeding my child.

the law would be damned, and her husband would be damned...if I felt as these parents feel, my child would NOT starve to death

 

[jimi_81]

I know absolutely nothing about the way the judicial system works in America or in Canada for that matter...

but, can President Bush come in on a horse and rescue the Schiavos?
in a sort of veto-power, knuckle dragging, caveman way?

 

[lancer]

Well i am in an informed position, but the other way round, my mum had a stroke when i was 17, and she has been in a coma since for about 8 yrs. So i see all points.

But i certainly see it as a parant of a 16mt old, i know how it would feel. Although they need to face facts, that doesn't make the facts any easier to face.

 

[Sazar]

what you or I think is a quality of life for this girl isn't the point...I happen to agree with everyone, I think this girl is death

You are under ethe impression these parents agree with us.

they don't

you are under the impression this girl is eithher dead or suffering

her parents think she is neither...her parents thiink their girl struggles to live on....though I dissagree with their parents, I know as a fact th at if I felt the way they do, the government would have to kill me if they needed to get ome to stop feeding my child.

the law would be damned, and her husband would be damned...if I felt as these parents feel, my child would NOT starve to death

I am frankly beyond the point of caring what the parents think or not.

They have deceived enough people with their heavily doctored perception of Terri's situation and are sabotaging the judicial system for american's at large.

Her parents, in the depositions for the initial case where there was a settlement in 93 or so stated that Terri was in a PVS so its not like this is a huge shock for them.

Please do me a favor and read up what has been going on for all these years. Just because it is more emotionally correct to side with the parents doesn't mean what they are doing and have been doing is correct.

Almost the past 7 odd years or so while I was in Florida, this was in the news all the time and the same 1 or 2 minutes of edited footage was shown of Terri smiling and all kinds of other crap. Her parents will not show the entire footage where she just lies there and drools and has no awareness. Where are the brain-scans showing her cranium basically to have a miniature brain and filled with fluids and air spaces? Where are the graphs showing no electrical activity?

Her parent's have made this a cause celebre and frankly, once Terri passes (r.i.p) I could care less how the Schiavo's feel after all this b.s. they have played out all across the country.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I am frankly beyond the point of caring what the parents think or not.

They have deceived enough people with their heavily doctored perception of Terri's situation and are sabotaging the judicial system for american's at large.

Her parents, in the depositions for the initial case where there was a settlement in 93 or so stated that Terri was in a PVS so its not like this is a huge shock for them.

Please do me a favor and read up what has been going on for all these years. Just because it is more emotionally correct to side with the parents doesn't mean what they are doing and have been doing is correct.

Almost the past 7 odd years or so while I was in Florida, this was in the news all the time and the same 1 or 2 minutes of edited footage was shown of Terri smiling and all kinds of other crap. Her parents will not show the entire footage where she just lies there and drools and has no awareness. Where are the brain-scans showing her cranium basically to have a miniature brain and filled with fluids and air spaces? Where are the graphs showing no electrical activity?

Her parent's have made this a cause celebre and frankly, once Terri passes (r.i.p) I could care less how the Schiavo's feel after all this b.s. they have played out all across the country.

I'll admit, my feelings about this would surely change if I thought the parents weren't genuine, but that sazaar is a differant discussion.

 

[Sazar]

You consider her parents to be genuine and not her husband who has had the same position for so long?

This is what I don't get.

 

[Lee]

She is brain dead. The parents 'gave away' their daughter to her now legal guardian, her husband.

I hear she has had no water or food for a week anyway, won't be long now, then she will be at a better place where ever that may be!

 

[jimi_81]

I think her parents need help. Professional help.
My opinions are NOT based on how the parents view/feel about the situation.

When a doctor comes to you and says there is nothing he/she can do, obviously the first reaction is to deny, and to keep hoping something will change. But thats a preliminary response. At some point, you accept the truth.

The parents havent. Nobody wants to have to bury their child. If Terri passes, her funeral will probably receive unprecidented media coverage, and the husband will be portrayed as a monster the whole way through. Sympathy always outweighs accepting truth.

If I could change up the subject. The recent Tsunami disaster. Of course the entire world symapthized to the unimaginable losses of each and every affected family. But what can you do about the earth deciding to shift the floor of the ocean? Nothing, but accept it. Educate, and accept.

 

[lancer]

jimi, so true.

 

[GMeagle86]

You consider her parents to be genuine and not her husband who has had the same position for so long?

This is what I don't get.

The problem with her husband is that he has a conflict of interest...he has kids with another woman, he has a lot to gain by seeing her dead. Watch, he will probably cremate her... There have been rumors of broken bones, abuse etc. If Terri was a "living" adult she could have her own legal council, and file for divorcement of her "husband."

For the first 4-7 years Michael did not want her dead, and he said that he did not know what her wishes were (as to whether she would have wanted to live or not in her condition) but suddenly he "changed his mind" and said that she told him that she did not want to live in that state etc....

I don't trust the husband at all, and because in difficult circumstances like this I would rather choose life, I tend to side with the parents.

 

[Perris Calderon]

You consider her parents to be genuine and not her husband who has had the same position for so long?

This is what I don't get.

my postition is that if the girl is dead, it doesn't matter to feed her so what does the husband care, she's dead

if she's not dead it matters quite a bit

I don't get it either

 

[lancer]

i think this post should be closed, for our sake if nothing else.

 

[Sazar]

The problem with her husband is that he has a conflict of interest...he has kids with another woman, he has a lot to gain by seeing her dead. Watch, he will probably cremate her... There have been rumors of broken bones, abuse etc. If Terri was a "living" adult she could have her own legal council, and file for divorcement of her "husband."

He has moved on with his life, any of us would probably have done the same. I know I likely would have if there was no hope of recovery.

He has long stated he will cremate her when she dies, it is not a new development and it is his perogative. He doesn't want her to become more of a spectacle when she dies and that is his right.

The broken bones rumour is something Terri's parents have been pushing more recently when case after case was lost by them. Terri did have bruising and broken bones, the courts and doctor's found them to be consistent with her collapsing after her seizure and from attempts to resuscitate her. There is no mileage to this other than to slander Michael further and give credence to the "let Terri be stuck in bed for all eternity" contingent.

For the first 4-7 years Michael did not want her dead, and he said that he did not know what her wishes were (as to whether she would have wanted to live or not in her condition) but suddenly he "changed his mind" and said that she told him that she did not want to live in that state etc....

He did what he could to get her better. After a while it becomes apparent when something is not going to work out. Once it became apparent, he went forward and did what he felt was right. He has nothing to gain by Terri's death. He could have accepted millions of dollars to let her live, but did not. He has been consistent in his arguments and his statements since this first went to trial.

I don't trust the husband at all, and because in difficult circumstances like this I would rather choose life, I tend to side with the parents.

If you choose life, you are probably not choosing Terri, because she is not really alive.

Trust and liking is one thing, but once you go through the facts of the case, while it may be difficult, there is only one conclusion and that is exactly what the courts have found repeatedly over the past 7 or 8 years.

 

[Sazar]

i think this post should be closed, for our sake if nothing else.

There will likely be another one opened on a similar topic.

It is prudent to leave this thread open till there is a resolution.

At that time it may be closed, or likely will die a natural death.

 

[Sazar]

my postition is that if the girl is dead, it doesn't matter to feed her so what does the husband care, she's dead

if she's not dead it matters quite a bit

I don't get it either

In his argument, he is following through with her wishes that she would not have wanted to be artificially sustained. The courts have agreed with him on this consistently so obviously his case is a heck of a lot stronger than the parents.