Pledge of Allegiance --- Petition

[Iceman]

I've always been able to apologize if shown the error of my ways, hope I always will too. I'm not convinced that I'm always right about something, that way of thinking leads to a big fall.

Thank you for accepting my apology Armis36, I've said the last I'm gonna say on this subject.

[edit] Grinder, I have visited other countries, I spent 6 years in the Air Force, mostly overseas, there is no doubt in my mind, that this is the greatest country in the world, but I don't have to say a pledge out loud to prove it. Or force children to say it either, kind of defeats the purpose, don't it? [/edit]

Fine debate.

 

[Eolis]

I was going to type in something here, but I read Joshua's post, and everything I was going to say and then some was posted by him in such a perfect and understandable way that I'll let that stand for me too. Nice job, Joshua.

I, too, respect ALL views on this thread....so help me God!

(Sorry, had to be said...)

 

[Grinder714]

I knew this thread was going to lead to all this...this is a very sensitive subject, and mabye should have not been brought up at all. But at least it gives us all a place to vent.....


I respect everyones opinions, no matter what they may be.

 

[Eolis]

I don't think it's gotten too out of hand. There's been some very good observations here, and it's made for good reading...

 

[Grinder714]

Originally posted by Eolis
I don't think it's gotten too out of hand. There's been some very good observations here, and it's made for good reading...

Agreed but I feel very passionate about this(as most of you do) so I think I'll bow out gracefully..... I think everyone knows how I feel, and visa-versa.

Another distinctive American quality, the choice to respectfully disagree.

 

[toric19]

Armis36-

I have to applaud you for your open mind, and the understanding way that you are raising your children. Alot of society's problems would be solved if more parents would encourage their children to keep their minds open and explore all options, not to blindly believe what their parents believe. I am not just talking about religion either. Anyone with a speck of intelligence knows that force feeding a child any belief almost always turns out to be harzardous. I could probably go on for hours on this topic, but I won't do that here anyways, as I have a few other things to address........

I myself, and partially Native American, (i'm the ******* child of many nations, i'm afraid...heh) and while I believe that trying to forcefully convert anyone is horribly wrong, the debatable (sp?) point in gonaads' issue is whether or not it was actually government policy to convert anyone who was not a christian. Yes, the vast majority of the people who were in the United States during those times were christian, and yes, most of those poeple were attempting to convert the native american tribes to christianity (focefully and sometimes violently), however there is no concrete evidence that shows that the government itself enforced those actions. The government never forced the religion on anyone, the people themselves did. Now, the government may have turned the other cheek on what was going on, which is just as horrendous as enforcing it, but that is debatable also. There is no concrete evidence that the government ever even knew that there were native americans being killed for not converting. Most of the reports made about the conflicts never went into details on why the conflicts occured, just when they happened, and what happened during them

well, that's all I can think of for right now, plus my boss will kill me if he finds me on the net........ttfn

 

[G-Money]

HOLY COW !!!!!! Did I open a can of worms with this post.....



So anyone want to have a beer with me and just chill ????

 

[Iceman]

Sure, you buying?

 

[G-Money]

Originally posted by Iceman38
Sure, you buying?

On me....... Budlight !!!!!!

 

[Iceman]

*Iceman38 takes off his Superhero custome, kicks his feet back, and lights up a fatty, while taking a big chug of Budlight, ahhhhhhhhhhhh that hits the spot*

"Rock on Dude"

 

[G-Money]

Originally posted by Iceman38
*Iceman38 takes off his Superhero custome, kicks his feet back, and lights up a fatty, while taking a big chug of Budlight, ahhhhhhhhhhhh that hits the spot*

"Rock on Dude"

While Famine is kicking it next to him........... What the life !!!!

 

[Iceman]

Only in America

 

[Armis36]

Ohhh man would I like to join ya'll in a cold one, but regrettably I have to go fight crime... It's SAFMA (Sucks A Fat Mans Ass)

Thanks to everyone that posted...even though I don't agree with every opinion, I do enjoy the mental stimulation. I think open discussion and differing opinions about social issues is one of the things that makes this country great. At least there are some intelligent observations and ideas posted here.

Unfortunately, shortly I'll be dealing with people who have trouble spelling their last name or have more teeth than brain cells, while ya'll are kicking back having a brewsky. Drink one for me...A BIG ONE!

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by Armis36

Every child (Country) makes mistakes. The key is to learn from your mistakes. They're called "Growing Pains".

Originally posted by Armis36
I'm afraid your mistaken there gonaads. I am a Police Officer, and unfortunaletly find myself in court often. They no longer require you to state "so help me God". That's just in the movies.

It's strange how some of those "growing pains" are still with us.

You should maybe check out some of the more rural small towns in some of the Southern States. I know someone in the District Attorney's Office that has had to travel around to a few of the rural/smaller Southern States Townships and they still do it.

Not just in movies. Oh Lordy Lordy.

 

[Armis36]

Originally posted by gonaads


It's strange how some of those "growing pains" are still with us.

You should maybe check out some of the more rural small towns in some of the Southern States. I know someone in the District Attorney's Office that has had to travel around to a few of the rural/smaller Southern States Townships and they still do it.

Not just in movies. Oh Lordy Lordy.

Sorry Gonaads, I spoke to broadly. Let me correct myself. It's not done in Texas.

 

[gonaads]

Heh heh heh.

Texas IS in tune with the rest of the country.

Nice people.

 

[ikester7579]

Originally posted by Iceman38
Etakos please don't flame the guy, he is entitled to his opinion (though I personally disagree with him).

Thanks Iceman!
You see I don't mind people who disagree. What Iceman said is fine example of polite disagreement. Just like if anyone else says I disagree and states their opion about it. But when the disagreement is taken to a personal level it's when the flaming starts.
The petiton has a choice. Sign or don't sign.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by ikester7579



The petiton has a choice. Sign or don't sign.

actually, the petition does not have a choice, and that's my issue with the post...the statement goes "for people that care"...excuse me, I have a passionate care for this issue, and a passion for the patriotism I hold dear, and a pasion for the love I have for my lord...so this post becomes an insult to me, as if to say if I don't sign, I don't care...so that's no choice, is it...

second, the petition itself has the same flaw...those people that don't want to be forced into saying they believe in god...if this issue is resolved against them, they will have no choice, will they...however, if this issue is resolved on behalf of a persons right to NOT BE FORCED INTO SAYING SOMETHING YOU DON'T BELIEVE...then everybody has a choice, I will recite "under God", and those that don not believe in god will not be forced into saying that they do..

 

[ikester7579]

Well maybe we ought to have two versions of the pledge?
one with God in it. And one not. After all this is a country of choice.
Right?

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by ikester7579
Well maybe we ought to have two versions of the pledge?
one with God in it. And one not. After all this is a country of choice.
Right?

and that is surely the answer