Pledge of Allegiance --- Petition

Kinda funny that Thomas Jefferson held church in the three houses even after writting that letter, which is proof that it can be interpatated a different way.
And yes you got the answer right.
Way to go!
But I wonder why no one not even the news speaks of this? hmm.
and that no one in this thread has either.
I guess it sheds a whole new light on the subject.
One nation under God vs. seperation of church and state not in constitution?hmmm.
Any one can twist what some one says, The sure way to know what they mean is to watch their actions. Action does speak louder than words. Church in the three houses.hmmm
Sounds loud enough for me!:p
 
It's very surprising to me, that anyone that loves this country, and loves what we stand for, would even concider forcing people that don't believe in god to recite that they do.
 
You Still Here Ikester? Why dont you spread your right-wing-psycho-fantasy-propaganda somewhere else. Or better yet ..get a AK47 and go fight some "heathens" ...please? I have been following your posts since ya came here, and its more of the same garbage. I think lot of ppl would agree. BTW, nice avatar (spit)
 
Etakos please don't flame the guy, he is entitled to his opinion (though I personally disagree with him).
 
Etakos: If you've been following this thread then you would have noticed at the very beginning Lonman made it quite clear that if any flaming started or the discussion got out of hand this thread will be closed.

You have a right to your opinion just as Ikester has a right to his opinion. No flaming or the thread will be closed!
 
is highjacking ok?...i was wondering if anyone ever noticed that there is no word chalant, so why should there be a word "non"chalant?

(this is my first attempt at a high jack...btw, notice my gif sig
 
Originally posted by catch23
forceusr: I am agnostic...that is a religous belief...that is not freedom from religion...


Definition of "agnostic"

So, by professing to be agnostic, you're admitting that you don't know whether or not "God" exists, right? Which means, you're not expressively saying that He doesn't exist, but that you just don't know. Is that correct?

Personally, even though I'm a Christian, I could care less whether they take the words "under God" out of the Pledge. I stopped saying the pledge about half-way through high school. I don't pledge allegiance to any flag. A flag is nothing more than a symbol. You want to burn an American flag? Go for it. You might burn a piece of cloth, but you'll never destroy what it stands for. Same thing with the pledge... They can take the words "under God" out, but it's not going to change the fact that this nation was founded as a Godly nation, and it's not going to change the faith of people who believe in a higher power.

R
 
I would still like to hear from the supposed patriots that think they have a right to tell a person he must say he believes in god, when he doesn't believe in god...that cannot be reconciled, can it?

I maintain, if you think you can tell those who don't believe in god, to recite that they do believe in god, you are no patriot of the history of this nation, and the very foundation that created the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


THANK YOU
THANKYOU VERY MUCH
 
Originally posted by dealer
I would still like to here from the supposed patriots that think they have a right to tell a person he must say he believes in god, when he doesn't believe in god...that cannot be reconciled, can it?

You're right. We shouldn't tell someone that they HAVE to say "under God" if they don't believe in God. Rather than taking the words "under God" out, why don't we just stop forcing children to say something at an age where they couldn't possibly understand the meaning of what they're actually saying? I mean, really, when you were 6 years old, did you fully know the meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance?

Making children say something like that, over and over, until it's ingrained in their brain sounds an awful lot like brainwashing.

From dictionary.com:

brain·wash·ing Pronunciation Key (brnwshng, -wôshng)
n.
2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.
 
Originally posted by dealer
this is my first attempt at a high jack
You have done well dealerson. Your education in the fine art of hijacking is almost complete. Did anyone know that Elvis died on my 7th birthday? He also had a stinky butt.
 
I knew he died on your 7th birthday, but I didn't know he had a stinky butt.

Thanks for sharing that, learn something everyday.

Thread has been hijacked :D
 
I have been reading all the responses to this thread, and I am very dismayed at how disrespectful people are to this great country. The pledge of allegiance is more than just a saying. It is stating the morals and values our country was founded on, and recongnising them. You think we are the greatest country ever by mistake? No, it is because of our strong tradition, and morals.

Values and standards are the guardrails in human culture. With all of the garbage that kids are subjected to in school today, to have them recite a 31-word pledge to the flag of their country - for people to find this objectionable is a sign of just how our culture is changing. This country is responsible for the prosperity everybody living in it enjoys. It is this country; it is this Constitution; it is this flag that is the beacon to the oppressed people around the world.

Our nation is a target for all those terrorists who find the way we are objectionable and threatening to the way they want to live. It is certainly worth having values and traditions that people stand for, and those traditions and institutions that made this country great are embodied in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Every generation that is born in this country has a responsibility to pass on to its successors all that they inherited. I see nothing wrong in Americans defending America, and understanding what's great about this country and wanting to protect it for their kids and their grandchildren. I don't understand people who don't see the importance of this. I certainly don't understand people who are threatened by it.

This country is great because of a series of miracles. It wasn't a miracle that it happened, but it was miraculous that our Founding Father's had success - and they did so by giving credit and reverence to an all mighty power. People fled their original homelands to come here and become Americans, and for many decades, the distinct American culture survived. Some who came here failed to assimilate and achieve of course, and blamed America.

Who says you have to say the pledge of allegiance anyway? I know in my school three years ago some kids didn't even stand up, and they were not treated any differently. And, who says "under god" is realted to christianity? You can have Alla in place of god, or buddah, or if you are atheist, maybe a tree. I dont see how this is so offensive to people, there was a reason it was put in the pledge, you know why, it was because of the values and morals this country was founded on. No one has any right to flame this pledge until they read how this country was founded, it is ashame because of selfish, ignorant people who think this country owes them something. If you have no idea of what I am talking about, or think I am just plain out wrong, please click this link, it is the Federalist Papers. These are essays by our founders stating what our country is founded on, and why our values are so important. This should give you some incite on why this whole "under god" this is such a big deal, and is WRONG to object to.

http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fedpapers.html

Thank You for your time, and God Bless America!!!

Joshua Jenkins
 
I'm sorry joshuamjenkins, but I could not disagree more. It's like Dealer said, why are you trying to force me and my children to recite something that refers to a "god", that I and my children do not believe in? WHY?

No amount of talk will change my mind, but I am not trying to force my personal believes on you, why is it that you people want to force your believe system on me?
 
The pledge is not forced on you, you do not have to say it. And for that reason, "my" beliefs are not being forced onto you. The pledge is Patriotism, and patriotism is not a belief, its a way of life, and you are free not to participate in it. That is the beauty of our country, it is free for everyone, and everyone is entitled to their own views. No one is forceing their "beliefs" on you.
 
I'm sorry, but the pledge means nothing more than brainwashing of children. Let the children grow up forming their own opinions.

As far as patriotism goes, I don't have to recite a Pledge, out loud, to show my patriotism. True patriotism comes from the heart, not something you show on your sleeve, which is what the Pledge does.

But, I do respect your opinion.
 
As do I Iceman, thank you for you thoughts and comments.
 
josh...let me say this in no uncertain terms...this country is greater then all the countries in history...and this is so because this country does not want it's constituents to have blind faith...you have to realize that it's blind faith that tells terrorists that a suicide bombing will send them to heaven.

there is hardly a greater evil then blind faith...if you believe in god, then you also believe that god gave us the tool of choice...and anyone that wants to take the ability to challenge away, under the guise of faith, will surely insult the design of man, and so too the creator of the design.

I hold, with the strongest conviction, that anyone that wants to force a person to say they believe in god, even though the person does not believe in god...is no patriot of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

thank you
thankyou very much
 

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