America under siege?[just perris in a rant]

[Shamus MacNoob]

We have inuit or as you said Eskimoes all over the terrotories thats the biggest part of Canada , yes its a great place to live and visit, when is best time depends on what you want to do and where you go , if you want to ski and such then of course winter its a myth that its always cold here we have summer here too lol , come to the eastern townships in the fall you wil never see anything nicer then the colors when everything changes. Ok so enough about how great this Nation is and back to the topic at hand.

What was the topic ? Oh is the USA under siege of course they are .. just like we all are.

 

[Tuffgong4]

so does this siege involve Steven Seagal anywhere?

personally there have been injustices in this country for a long time and it will keep happening for a long time, just like any country.

One news article is not going to "scare me"

The news is not conservative and it's not liberal. There are many views being cast on the tv everyday in America. Some people will take out what they want and what they don't want. It's all in perspective.

It is naivete and being gullible to put so much into one news article for or against a president, view, or government. I read the article posted, and I found that there might have been people that were unlawfully arrested. But I also found out that there were a certain amount of people that were convicted at trial for their actions. I could have chosen to just see the people who did nothing wrong or the people that did something wrong. But I read the whole article and of course it was only 1 article.

America has it's faults and it's pluses. They were here when Clinton was in office, and they'll be here throughout G.W.'s term. They are just different pluses and minuses.

The one thing I know is I'm not dumb enough to fall for what the liberal or conservative sides try to forcefeed me.

The one thing that is funny to me is that "America is under siege!!!!!!"

I didn't vote for Bush, I didn't vote for Kerry, but a sensationalist statement like that does not have merit. I'm also not afraid since I didn't vote for Bush that I'm going to have to call up Mr Seagal and have him fight the forces of Conservative America for me!

 

[mlakrid]

Ohhhhh PERRIS... wheres your response to my comments??
Why not talk (or argue) with someone who has the fast track on items which can not be released to public knowledge??

comments?

 

[Perris Calderon]

haven't been back to this thread...I'm at work now, I'll look later

edit

I did respond...you missed it


and if you had track on data not available to the public, you wouldn't let the public know about it.

 

[mlakrid]

1) this president was warned when, where how, who, what targets...
2) he did nothing...he enjoyed his vacation, secure in the knowledge that there would actually be people that would think doing nothing with this intel would be the very best course of action
there is no saving grace for how this president handled that information

1)everythingNo, this is NOT correct, they only knew terrorist organizations like Al Quaeda (sp) had atrgets ranging from the Golden gate bridge to the New York sky line..

2) --- No arguement except that Clinton was still behind the remnant of the initial war, the entire country was still on high alert, had been for close to 4 years.. no comparison

Im not going to say I like Pres Bush, but you especially since you dont get to read Early bird reports (Once again look it up) All I can say is that the intel communities failed our country NOT president Bush. You believe what you want, no one from the CIA/FBI/NSA and other OGA's will deny they failed, and didnt disseminate information they way they were supposed too..

You seriously need to get a job with a clearance before you believe things which affect the entire intel community. You really think you know everything that happened? Wrong...there are places on our secured networks which I ca not get to even with my clearance... clearly the Nation won't know what happened until most of the parties are dead and gone.... Just like water gate..

 

[Perris Calderon]

sorry

first, if you had data that the rest of us didn't have, you wouldn't be talking about it.

second;

intel DID NOT FAIL.

though the president tries to tell us it did.

this president was given PRECISE \DATATHAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPROVE ON

he was told when, (within months) how (highjacking planes to be used as weapons) who, (bin laden and al qaeda), what, (financial and political buildings) and where (new york and washington)...he was told this was utmost concern by the authors of the breif

and intel was absolutley going nuts

for instance, "everyones hair was on fire"...DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

he thought the best course of action wsa a vacation

HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOU?

do you think there is one person on this planet that thinks they would have done what this president did with that intel?

off to work now

 

[mlakrid]

I only want to point this out, don't intend to offend here. This thread seems pretty sensitive.

I've broken the above paragraph down.

1. Before running your mouth, you need to get clearance.
2. If you don't have clearance, you know nothing.
3. Once you get your clearance, you know nothing.

Conclusions:

No one should run their mouth at all (which would in turn violate your constitution)
If you don't have clearance, you really don't know what is going on.
If you do, you still really don't know what is going on.

Therefore, mlakrid knows nothing. mlakrid, under your terms, you need to stop running your mouth. :laugh:

Under my terms? Party on, life is short.

This thread is a great read. Keep goin !

Oh My now THIS made me laugh...

Ok I feel better

its actually more like:

1) join the military
2) get a clearance
3) Leave the military for a contractors job
4) use contractors job for a govt job
5) do nothing because it almlost takes an act of congress to get you fired...
6) because your govt now you complain contractors make too much money and try and "cut back" your contractors positions

Grrr all im saying is the nation has alot of information that will not be afforded you all for many MANY years to come...

***END rant***

🙁

 

[Perris Calderon]

Grrr all im saying is the nation has alot of information that will not be afforded you all for many MANY years to come...

true, but you don't have that information...if you did, you wouldn't be talking about it, or security clearance has failed in your case

 

[mlakrid]

sorry

first, if you had data that the rest of us didn't have, you wouldn't be talking about it.

second;

intel DID NOT FAIL.

though the president tries to tell us it did.

this president was given PRECISE \DATATHAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPROVE ON

he was told when, (within months) how (highjacking planes to be used as weapons) who, (bin laden and al qaeda), what, (financial and political buildings) and where (new york and washington)...he was told this was utmost concern by the authors of the breif

and intel was absolutley going nuts

for instance, "everyones hair was on fire"...DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

he thought the best course of action wsa a vacation

HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOU?

do you think there is one person on this planet that thinks they would have done what this president did with that intel?

off to work now

I have access to it, Note: I havent said what I do know.... and I wont for obvious reasons... thats what my non-disclosure paperwork is for, not to mention IF I did, because of the nature of it, my ass would see th einside of a very famous Kansas Federal Penetentiary (sp)

the breakdown wasnt in months like you yourself said : their hair was on fire.. as in clear and PRESENT dange.. NO $HI+ we didnt have 3 buildings hit and 2 colapse after the attacks?

You want to say Clinton did more than nay other president? All I can say, is that if that were true then why didnt he take Osama out when he had the chance?

and NO Im not saying GW Sr had any less fault in this incase you are wondering. they both had fault, they both had a chance to take him out.

and do I think that anyone else would have done the same? THAT is hard to say, we were the target of misinformation from Osama and other terrorist organizations for a while before GW took office... whos not to say we wouldnt have done the same... look how many times air ports had been put on high alert... this is NOT as clear cut as you make it out to be

Far from it... Clinton had more than 4 years of "arbitration" with Sadam to get him to allow us unfettered access to his entire country.. it didnt happen...

At the VERY LEAST Bush did what no others had the balls to do... remove Sadam from power and hunt Osama in his own back yard...

 

[mlakrid]

true, but you don't have that information...if you did, you wouldn't be talking about it, or security clearance has failed in your case

On the contrary...

I am allowed by the very description of my job, allowed to annotate even on my resume and I quote:

"Maintain a TS/SCI Clearance with access to Sensitive compartmented Information, last Single Scope Background Iinvestigation completed october, 2001."

I wont talk specifics, or I would be a target of an informal ivestigation at the very least. I dont want that
🙂

 

[mlakrid]

On a side note... I didnt like either candidate this past election but I took the lesser of two evils...

I like Bush as a person... he is charasmatic, and loves people and is a very christian man. that is not an act... he does believe what he says.

I just wish you could see it that way... 🙁

 

[Perris Calderon]

On the contrary...

I am allowed by the very description of my job, allowed to annotate even on my resume and I quote:

"Maintain a TS/SCI Clearance with access to Sensitive compartmented Information, last Single Scope Background Investigation completed October, 2001."🙂

annotating clearance credentials has nothing to do with hinting or revealing information that's meant to be held from the public

also, there is misinformation deliberately disseminated for public comnsumption...for instance, making believe Intel failed, when in fact it was a success... missinformation...this is also known as propaganda.for instance,


if you were part of that league it would be mildly believable

here's an example of misinformation;

right now, there is supposed to be a new position for a central figure who will be able to act with the information provided by various gathering organizations.

that position used to be known as "president".

any other person who would have been president would have done something more if they had the clear and precise Intel this president had...don't you think?

You want to say Clinton did more than nay other president? All I can say, is that if that were true then why didnt he take Osama out when he had the chance?

to get bin laden there is absolutely no doubt Clinton did more then any president before him and the one that followed...did you even read the report?

in addtition, every single sworn testiomony tells us that clinton gave every clearance to get the job done whenever that was his council.

on the other hand, we know as a fact our current glorious leader reduced the effort to get bin lade, and actually stood down when we knew bin laden was cornered at the foot hills of tora bora.

 

[Lee]

Johnny, pssst... I have one thing to say to you!

 

[Tuffgong4]

Since one news article can be so heavily favored for such a large argument :dead:
I can't believe I missed this... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/

Osama bin Laden: missed opportunities
The CIA had pictures. Why wasn’t the al-Qaida leader captured or killed?

As the 9/11 commission investigates what Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush might have done to prevent the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, one piece of evidence the commission will examine is a videotape secretly recorded by a CIA plane high above Afghanistan. The tape shows a man believed to Osama bin Laden walking at a known al-Qaida camp.
The question for the 9/11 commission: If the CIA was able to get that close to bin Laden before 9/11, why wasn’t he captured or killed? The videotape has remained secret until now

In 1998, President Clinton announced, “We will use all the means at our disposal to bring those responsible to justice, no matter what or how long it takes.”

The tape proves the Clinton administration was aggressively tracking al-Qaida a year before 9/11. But that also raises one enormous question: If the U.S. government had bin Laden and the camps in its sights in real time, why was no action taken against them?

A Democratic member of the 9/11 commission says there was a larger issue: The Clinton administration treated bin Laden as a law enforcement problem.

Bob Kerry, a former senator and current 9/11 commission member, said, “The most important thing the Clinton administration could have done would have been for the president, either himself or by going to Congress, asking for a congressional declaration to declare war on al-Qaida, a military-political organization that had declared war on us.”

In reality, getting bin Laden would have been extraordinarily difficult. He was a moving target deep inside Afghanistan. Most military operations would have been high-risk.What’s more, Clinton was weakened by scandal, and there was no political consensus for bold action, especially with an election weeks away.

One Clinton Cabinet official said, looking back, the military should have been more involved, “We did a lot, but we did not see the gathering storm that was out there.”

 

[Tuffgong4]

Another Article

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize
Sudan offered up the terrorist and data on his network. The then-president and his advisors didn't respond.

By MANSOOR IJAZ
President Clinton and his national security team ignored several opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden and his terrorist associates, including one as late as last year.

I know because I negotiated more than one of the opportunities.

From 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger and Sudan's president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, who wanted terrorism sanctions against Sudan lifted, offered the arrest and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt's Islamic Jihad, Iran's Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas.

 

[Kr0m]

Sure it's good to try and find ways to stop the terrorists but I don't think there's been enough information as to WHY they did what they did, and will keep on doing...

Comments on a few statements in previous posts...
-Someone stated that there hasn't been another terrorist attack (IN THE USA) since 9/11.... Is this because the U.S. invaded Afghanistan & Iraq and are capturing or killing the terrorists? Or could be partially due to the fact that something of that magnitude takes time to plan/follow through on and/or they know they're being watched more so now than ever and are waiting for the right time/moment, or is it due to the fact that US is now on THEIR turf in the middle east and the terrorists are having a field day blowing themselves up left & right in Iraq (killing US Soldiers & Iraqi civilians along with them).

I heard someone on the radio state that going after terrorists with brute force in their own lands isn't the greatest of ideas. For every terrorist they kill over there, 2 more will be born.
Personally, I'm not real sure what I think about that statement, but seeing some of the resentment(etc) created in the area, it might have some validity to it.

 

[mlakrid]

Another Article

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize
Sudan offered up the terrorist and data on his network. The then-president and his advisors didn't respond.

By MANSOOR IJAZ
President Clinton and his national security team ignored several opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden and his terrorist associates, including one as late as last year.

I know because I negotiated more than one of the opportunities.

From 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger and Sudan's president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, who wanted terrorism sanctions against Sudan lifted, offered the arrest and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt's Islamic Jihad, Iran's Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas.

OH MY, I was going to look for articles just like these... thanks tuffgong...

In any case... what I have been trying to ask you is, why you insist on persecuting GW? He has done more to stop terrorist acts vs our country that I can see on a daily basis. While I worked for the NSA/CSS when I was in the Naval Security Group, I can tell you for fact that elements of terror suspects or terrosists themselves were never afforded to the NSA from the CIA...

That is why they placed Tom Ridge as head of Homeland Security... working directly for the president, and in conjunction with all other agencies...

This hierarchy is supposed to help our intel community by leaps and bounds... something that was missing from our community prior to 9/11 regardless of if you believe the agencies were working together or not.

Perfect example... even with my clearance... when I changed jobs, and worked for the National Maritime Intelligence Center (formerly named the Office of Naval Intelligence) and I went over to the pentagon, they would not accept my Intel badge... so even though I had a higher clearance then the Air force SSgt who walked me around, I had to be escorted. I guess the point im trying to make here, is that if sharing information, and clearance information was that difficult, what makes you believe that anything you hear regarding the information provided Bush before 9/11 was complete?

Also, by a show of "AYEs" from each person, how many people would like to see some pics from the middle east... by middle east I am reffering to all those places you keep hearing about in the news... Qatar, Saudi, Iraq, Afghanistan etc...

Im going soon, and if you have any special requests, and I have time, I will be glad to take pics... and post them here....

 

[Sazar]

Fyi, one of my badminton buddies in Florida while I lived in Tampa Bay worked directly with intelligence at CentCom.

And my m8 whom I shared a house with near the Cheval complex, his dad who visited a few times was one of the chief interrogators for the Brits in Iraq.

Spouting credentials is well and good but does not always correlate. Same applies to the main-stream media and the talking heads on the "news" all day and night who put forth their perspective more so than reporting on topic.

This is not meant as a slight mlakrid, just to demonstrate there are others who know stuff perhaps to complement their positions. Obviously if you are in the position you claim to be, you will likely see things we are not able to.

 

[Johnny]

Johnny, pssst... I have one thing to say to you!

How is this ?? Because I don't believe the Liberals ?? Because I don't believe something that says because he hates bush and is in love with Clinton ?? because I didn't sit on my ass and support the liberals in their fearful run from the terrorists? because I like Blair ?? because I hate Chretien ?? because I am a Independent Conservative and not a liberal ?? Because I don't believe any of the garbage that comes out of yours or perries's mouth ?? Because I don't believe anything a "NON" American says about our country ??? Because I support taking Hussein out ?? Because I support the public execution of Hussein ?? Because I feel bush is doing a great job ??

You don't seem to understand how it is, you seem to be trying to shove your views down my throat. You are lashing out at a country you are not even a citizen of. You seem to think that you are correct 100% of the time. No wonder you and Perris get along so well. You are both so far top the left that you can see anything past the ego embarrassed idiocy you possess. You need to wake up and look at what is going .

I may be acting like a baby, but you are acting like a 12 year old child. I've said it before and I will say it again. these types of posts get no where. They do nothing but cause arguments, I think that is the only reason why perris even starts them. When you have two diff parties, they can't and will not agree on things. You in your case are really out of the equation, not a American citizen makes you exempt from all types of comments pertaining to this country. Just like me not being a English citizen makes me exempt from any all types of comments pertaining to your country. All I said was that I like Blair, I did not go into detail about how the government of your country is or how I feel the government of your country is acting. You on the other hand have been bashing Bush and the US government from the beginning. I know I said I hate Chretien, but I in turn did not say that the Canadian government was a farce.

You need to wake up .. Plain and simple.

 

[Tuffgong4]

Sazar I'm just guessing here but I think mlakrid is really just saying that what we know may not always be the whole truth. There are so many sides to every story especially in serious situations that speaking in facts is very hard to do.