Do you believe in God? Anything after death?

[Jahya]

Good post Mubbers

I believe that if a god exists then it created this universe as an experiment and may or may not come back at the end to see how it went.

In regards to this, I have often wondered that myself. Is it possible we are nothing more than "lab rats"?

Perhaps "god" is actually an alien civilization that brought/created the bacteria and whatnot needed to spawn life on this planet as an experiment. This experiment may have been to see if this planet was inhabitable but some cataostrophic event made it impossible for the "creator(s)" to follow up on their experiment, or when they did follow up, the results were not what they hoped for and they have abandoned their project (us). Perhaps time was an issue, we took to long to evolve into anything useful for them...

There's a million possibilities (just like there seems to be a million gods). I just know that until a supposed "god" decides to show his/her/its face to me in person (or whatever a "god" may appear as) and can explain why he/she/it has allowed all the violent death and destruction is his/her/its name among other things, I don't like the thing I am "supposed" to beleive in and I will not waste one second of my life praying (begging).

I guess though, George Carlin said it best, if I had to worship a god, I would worship the sun. Yes, the sun, giver of all life on this planet. Were the sun to abandon us, we would all die.

 

[gonaads]

It's strange that everyone states one book or another when it comes to their religious teaching as to their God and so forth.

But remember that all these book were eritten by humans they are strory books as to their account of what happened at toses times in religious histroy. Also they are the writtings and thought of those who were called prophets at the time. All these books are interpeted by their religious leaders as to what they mean. All the followers do is follow what they are told. Now if you yourself read these books and interpet them in your own way then you come up will your own version of what they say or mean. As to if there is a God or they speak of a God these books all give God a name. Now if we wish to believe is up to us. But the followers of these different religions have been brought up and taught or brain washed into believing the way that the religious leaders of each of these sects/religions say they should believe. If we have open minds to everything then we can and should come to our own conclusion as to the existence of a God. Being human we have free will to think for ourselves and decide for ourselves. But all these religions would have us follow in the blind. "What we say is the truth". That is not the way we should decide what is what and no one else should try to force it on us and tell us either. If you bevieve in God, good. If you don't believe in God, good. It is up to you. But we live in a world where it has been shoved down our throats our entire life so it is very hard to have an open mind when it comes to a belief such as the existence of GOD.

 

[sdibias]

It's actually quite disturbing to see how few of you beleive in God. I pray for you! Someone asked where God was during September 11th when the terrorists struck my homeland, or during any other catastrophic event. Do you think God is going to control everything? He gave us the ability to think on our own, and we make our own decisions. So where was God you ask, He was everywhere...

The Bible tells us that God uses suffering to underline our physical frailty, to remind us that we are not immune from the consequences of sin, to teach us that there is more to life than physical health and strength, to encourage us to look to him for help in coping with the pressures and pains of living in a fallen world, to develop depth of character and to learn how to be sensitive and sympathetic to the needs of others.

Here is a little story which took place on September the 10th 2001.

For thirty years the twin towers of the World Trade Center dominated the skyline of Manhattan, the business heart of New York City. If we include the 347-foot radio mast on top of the north tower, it was the tallest building in the world. The center’s 110 stories provided twelve million square feet of space serviced by 103 elevators, sixteen miles of staircases, 12,000 miles of electric cable and 49,000 tons of air-conditioning equipment. On the morning of 11 September 2001 thousands of people streamed into the twin towers to begin work. It seemed a day like any other day, but some 300 miles to the northeast coordinated teams of religious fanatics were preparing to shatter that illusion. In a meticulously planned operation, they hijacked two commercial airlines on scheduled flights from Boston to Los Angeles. Brutally slitting the throats of passengers or crew members who tried to stop them, they rerouted the Boeing 767s to New York, flew in over Manhattan and aimed the aircraft at the World Trade Center like guided missiles...


The day before the terrorist outrage of September 11, 2001, an American Airlines passenger noticed a stewardess breaking up ice with a wine bottle. Concerned that she might hurt herself, he asked if there was some other way of doing this. The stewardess was impressed that he should be so concerned, and after they had talked together she gladly accepted a Christian tract from him. Later in the flight she told him it was the sixth tract of this kind that she had been given recently, and asked, ‘What does God want from me?’ The man replied, ‘Your life,’ and then explained her need to get right with God through trusting Christ. Less than twenty-fours later she was on the first plane to crash into the World Trade Center.

The stewardess who had the way to get right with God explained to her on 10 September had no idea that her particular closing date was a matter of hours away — and her remarkable story is a sobering reminder that nobody can afford to play fast and loose with God’s patience and assume that they can respond at their own convenience.

 

[ZAnwar]

Originally posted by gonaads
But remember that all these book were eritten by humans

That is wrong, when the Quran came down, it was by scriptures to the Prophet Mohammad. An angel brought these scriptures down. When the 30 chapters of the Quran were complete, people wrote upon the Quran, trying to copy it exactly 100%. At the end of the day, it was Allah's word. As I said before aswell, this holy book can only come from God, because it explain things which the Scientists look guidance for and it has events in there which would happen several hundred years later!

 

[Perris Calderon]

this story of god and angels being involved in the writing of bibles is a story that is paralleled in all bibles of all religions.

it is always an angel, or god himself, that directs the man to write the bidding.

this is common among religions, and the "origin of the text"

yet still, it's the hand of man the puts the pen to paper, and creates the version that the rest of man gets to see...

these stories are neccessary for the masses to believe in the respective religion...these are the "visions" that all the bibles talk about.

and so, as gonaads wrote, all bibles are written by men.

the only time you are reading a bilble that is written from the hand of god, is the time that god hands you the bible in person...and belive me, he would rather just put his will in your mind...no need for god, (if there is a god) to put his will in a book

 

[Tabula Rasa]

Actually, Islam is different in its believes.
Judaism and Christianity claim that god has guided man on how to write the bible (and actually accept the fact that a man has written "the words of god") , Islam claims that the Quran was given already written by god, to Mohamed.

Anyway, it only applies if you belive in a certain religion.

 

[Perris Calderon]

not so Benny

the ten commandments are , (allegedly), written in the hand and by the hand of god.

the five books go forward from here, as does the second testament...as does the writing from Muhammad

And the story of the Quran goes on to say that they are from scriptures given to their profit, Mohammid...a man.

Other men then copied the bible from this "vision"

this story is identical in all religions.

in the end, we are asked to believe that these "visions" actually happened.

the synonym by the way of "vision" is "hallucination"

when god wants me to believe he wrote a book, then god will write it in front of me...the way he wrote it in front of Moise. (Moses).

And when god does present me with his writings, he will surely not be pleased if I tell the world about it, and the world then believes me!!!he will not be pleased with such foolhardy men.

He would much rather give this bible to the world himself.

Not in some "vision" to one man or 10 men, (a minion)

 

[Tabula Rasa]

Ten commandments aren't in the Holy books.
my point is that both the Bible (which includes many books actually, not only the Torah) and the New Testimony are considered to be written by man (by the religion, any religious leader will admit to that) , the Quran is considered to be actually written by god (also by the religion).

The Quran is actually a "correction of history" in the muslims believes , its similar to the Torah , but events go slightly differently , the names of prophets and people are not exactly the same (like in the case of Abraham (known as "Ibraaheem") is considered to be a prophet of Allah).

 

[Perris Calderon]

the Torah, (five books) go forward from the ten commandments, the first bible of that religion goes forward from that event and Moses... the second testament goes forward from the original testament and Jesus, and the Quran goes forth from Jesus to Mohammad.

The story begins with the ten commandments...written (allegedly) in the hand of god

The events of origin of these texts are identicle...it all begins with god, and men put pen to paper

God or an angel begins the information, and from that, parchment is brought forth by men.

Identical in the story of the Quran.

Mohammid presented text which was (alledgedly) written by the hand of god, and men copied the ideas which were given to Mohammid...identical story in every way.

all religions like to put a twist to their stories to make it seem as though their religion is unique.

In this again, the story remains the same...man puts the pen to paper, and this is the Quran.

God didn't walk around and give everybody the Quran

Men did that

 

[Tabula Rasa]

In a theological non religious point of view that is correct.
but not quite in the religious islamic pov.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by Benny
In a theological non religious point of view that is correct.
but not quite in the religious islamic pov.

well, of course you are correct Benny.

No religion will ever realize that it belongs on the same shelf as other religions...doesn't change it though

 

[Mubbers]

This latter part of this thread, the theological "discussion" between us all helps prove the point I made about the dis-service mankind does to the concept of god.

Surely if god exists then he would be somewhat disturbed by the personalisation of the above arguments held in his name.

I believe that Dealer is right when he says that a man writes the book. These days if you tried to publish a book claiming it to infact be written by god via the voices in your head what would happen?

Well you know what happens as there are numerous looney cults knocking around out there all claiming to have heard directly from god. We don't believe them now so why should we believe what was written back then?

And if you do believe that god wrote these books through the hands of men then why do we not hear more from god in a similar fashion (from a credible source)? Has he deserted us and left us with the old manual? Did he go bust or has our support contract run out?

Maybe all us doubters will be proven wrong, but surely we doubters were created for a reason?

Mubbers

 

[BonyTony]

NO...he is a cruel one if there is.

The above is my Opinion.

 

[gonaads]

The one and only problem with the *Ten Commandments* and the *Quran* is that they are both alledgedly written by the hand of God or Allah. Moses was alone and so was Mohammad when they each received them. So who's to say that each of these Prophets did not write them themselves. There wasn't any type of writting experts at that time to substantiate their claims as to *God* writting and giving them to them directly. It is faith or belief that has made these two things go forth and become what they are today. The belief that there is a God is all based on a belief/fath in a writting that has been handed down for ages with only the words of people that it was writting by the hand of God. If we, today were to try and pass something as those two items too the masses. We would be bombarded with, "Prove it, have it anilized, have the writting compared, do you have witnesses? You must undergo a phyquiatric evaluation" and so on. Back then it was a simpler time with simple people. If no one had believed these two Prophets there never would have been anything. I you get enough people to believe what you say is true you create a following and from there and orginization or whatever it is you have started. Be it religion or something else. That is how faith and religion got their beginings.

Now some of you will argue that, NO... the *Ten Commandments* wre writtin by God. And that the *Quran* was writtin by Allah/God. But the point still remains neither one of these two Prophets were in the presence of anyone else. PROOF???... No proof is needed in faith and religion, only the belief that it is true.

Alot of times when people have tried to proove something when it comes to a religious artifact they get into problems. Be it in it's date of origin, who it belonged to and so on.

So God is real... to those who belief. And God is not real... to those who do not believe. It is all in your mind, no where else.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by gonaads
The one and only problem with the *Ten Commandments* and the *Quran* is that they are both alledgedly written by the hand of God or Allah

as usual, we agree...everything...EVERYTHING that is religion requires us to believe in a man...one man...ha

as if god is so weak, he speaks to the one man, and to no other men.

as if

and then, these religions use the word "faith" as a weapon and tool to keep people in line...to keep peple from thinking on their own

they hope that weak minded men will turn off the brain that god gave to men.

they hope that the weapon "faith" will keep people from reason... reason...the most powerful gift that god gives to us as men...and some people fall for this trick

interesting weapon, this "faith"

 

[ZAnwar]

Originally posted by gonaads
The one and only problem with the *Ten Commandments* and the *Quran* is that they are both alledgedly written by the hand of God or Allah. Moses was alone and so was Mohammad when they each received them. So who's to say that each of these Prophets did not write them themselves.

Prophet Mohammad could not have written it himself because he was uneducated, he couldn't read or write. I can speak 2 languages, Urdu and English. I can read and write and also speak English but I can only speak Urdu, I cannot read or write it!

 

[Perris Calderon]

nobody was there to see who helped him with the text...could have been anybody, we just don't know...we are asked to have "faith" that god gave it to him...

some people think god does not want anyone to believe this tale

of course, you can have the faith to believe that god gave it to him...

people that are not of this belief, have the faith that god did not give the text to him...people that are not of this faith believe it was someone who fooled him into thinking it was god...(possibly the counter to god...he's a shruddy that one)

 

[ZAnwar]

Originally posted by Mubbers
Maybe all us doubters will be proven wrong, but surely we doubters were created for a reason?

Mubbers

You were, to be one of those who accept Islam!

 

[ZAnwar]

Originally posted by dealer
nobody was there to see who helped him with the text...could have been anybody.

When the scriptures that came down from God (and I mean Allah) were completed to form the Quran. Prophet Mohammad's best friend copied them out for the world to see!

 

[sdibias]

The Rapture is coming!!!