The War Has Started

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Krux
like I saidpeople make misstakes it was a plane doing mach 3 kinda hard for ground troops to tell the markings on the side of a plane at 900mph (faster? I'm not sure how fast a mach is)

so humans should not make that choice

Originally posted by Krux
yes your comment was stupid to say that as soon as the USA gets into a war that were gonna start shooting our own guys or our allies is just childish and ignorant.

I am talking from past event, did the US not bomb a Red Cross building in afghanistan. I am just saying that if that kind of things happens then surely more safe guards should be built in.

Originally posted by Krux
bush maybe our president but you need to remember THE PEOPLE run this country not one man. if the people don't like whats going on we have the power to stop it.

Same here but as sacred2nite said we give the government lots of crap. We are probably one of the worse populations to manage, all brits complain if they find something wrong.
And Bush does look like a total gimp whenever he is on TV, he seems to have this mentality of a 6 year old, or that is the perception we get of him here in the UK.

Originally posted by XP Abuser
also the world cannot trust a leader that makes weapons - as we all know that the only use for weapons is to destroy.

The US pours billions into "defense" budget its more like a "weapons" budget. Also did you know that it is perfectly legal for countries to develop Chemical and Biological weapons for "crowd control" purposes. How many things like VX gas have been developed by that loop hole in the NBC weapons limitation treaty.

I am sorry if I offend you, but I simply do not trust a nation that is that paranoid, you can now say that with good reason, but before it was too excessive.

I will admit than I am Anti-America, I do not agree with the Global Policeman view it seems to have, and I wont until America has sorted its own internal problems, a country cannot adiquately solve external problems til its own internal ones are fixed. Bush sees fit to more publically attack the external than deal with the internal.
Now I know that none of you can, or likely will not apologise for the vast quantity of dickheads that I have met from America (lived there for 6 years) which have resulted in this less than Pro American viewpoint.
I will state that my main reasons for dislike of America is Environmental (Kyoto Agreement), Global limitation of Nuclear Weapons (SALT1 and 2, they never signed), International Court (Americans cannot be tried in an international court, I believe just about ever other nationality can be), America inability to deal with their rising gun problem (2nd Amendment was made nearly 200 years ago pertaining to musketts and rifles, not hand guns and shotguns and sniper rifles), American ****ers claiming that they improved the English Language. That last one is one of the things the American Dickheads I have been exposed to have claimed. I am sorry but I dont think that "y'all" is an improvement.

Now again I am sorry if I have offended you, but these are my views.

 

[Krux]

Re: Krux.....

Originally posted by sacred2nite
Krux, I understand what you are saying and i agree that the rest of the world can be too anti-American at times. I cant speak for the rest of the world but i can give my opinion on why i think there is sometimes anti-American feelings in the UK.
Most British people do not dislike America, or American people. But sometimes we do perceive some American people as being arrogant and blindly patriotic.
We hear all these reports about your president and how he cant even name some of world leaders and does not even read! We see him on TV and just see this stupid, inarticulate, arrogant man, who always seems to say the wrong thing and yet some Americans seem to think he is great! This man is only president because of his dad. As the biggest power in the world you need the best leader in the world. Someone who is a bit more user friendly, maybe?
Here in the UK we scrutinize every action our government makes. We love our country but we know that blind patriotism is dangerous. The British government often gets a hard time off us. And so they should!!!
I do not claim we are perfect, i mean how could anyone say a country with a monarchy is perfect!!!! I mean how stupid is that??? Also I realize that there are some people who are anti-American just because of jealousy but you should rise above that because it cant be helped.
Please do not read this and feel insulted. I am by no means, anti-American. A lot of amazing things (good things) come out of America and I hope to visit it very soon. You just need to be a bit more tactile when you speak and a bit critical about your own government and country.
Sorry for any offense caused.

you didn't offend me you also didn't just blatenly insult my country like geffy did. the election between bush and gore was to close to even know who really won but bush was the one we ended up with, I don't support everything our governemnt does. and believe me we rip our government all the time to. I would also like to visit britain go back to the mother land see where I came from


I think bush looks like a moron some times also, last night he got on the new and hes was like stumbling for words, I was like sheeesh when congress isn't interupting him with clapping every other word he doesn't speak real well haha

 

[Geffy]

Re: Re: Krux.....

Originally posted by Krux
you didn't offend me you also didn't just blatenly insult my country like geffy did. the election between bush and gore was to close to even know who really won but bush was the one we ended up with, I don't support everything our governemnt does. and believe me we rip our government all the time to. I would also like to visit britain go back to the mother land see where I came from


I think bush looks like a moron some times also, last night he got on the new and hes was like stumbling for words, I was like sheeesh when congress isn't interupting him with clapping every other word he doesn't speak real well haha

Hey I am sorry if you felt I was insulting your country, there are parts of the US that I lived while I was there, Louisiana, Florida, the Keys, I want to go to California and dive the Kelp Forests. I was mainly attacking your governments foreign policy.
I remember a great edition of Jon Stewart and the G7 or G9 summit, they showd Blair talking as he usually does but sounding like he knew what was going on, then a clip of Bush sort of chewin or suckin on his lip. It was great the crap they gave hime for just sitting there and looking like a nonce.

Yes I know you give your government crap as well I just dont understand why there seems to be so much support for the war, its ok to support your troops, but supporting the war is a separate issue.
Granted Saddam needs to be removed, but I feel that the US belief of Freedom and Democracy and diplomacy should be able to exhaust all other possible avenues before war is even considered.

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by XP Abuser
it happens every time. the yanks kill us. no matter what battle... they manage to do it.

firstly... they said saddam didnt have WOMD ok so where the **** did he get those scud missiles from... which everyone knows is blatantly in breach of 14-41.

also the world cannot trust a leader that makes weapons - as we all know that the only use for weapons is to destroy.
hitler was slowly building up his forces and without warning invaded neighbouring countries. this is clearly what they dont want to happen with saddam.

next as geffy clearly pointed out america only helped us in wwII because of the attacks on pearl harbour. and would have merrily sat on its fat ass through the whole conflict. which could have still been going today. but for that we thank them and their our best allie in our world.

also iraq was one of the richest countries in the middle east before saddam came to power. and us brits even stuck a monarchy in there for them to piss em off out of our way. but now decades on they need our help again... will these arab countries ever get their fingers out... and liberate themselves.

haha I already said why we didn't enter that war we didn't go in because of how WW 1 ended. we with drew from all foriegn matters we became isolationists because no one would listen to us and we just didn't want to deal after that. then when WW2 started the american ppl where like nope nuhh uhhh we don't want to get in there war. and technically we where in the war before perl harbor because german U-boats kept sinking our dang cruze liners and trade ships we lost 200 somthing ppl on a civilian ship, and we told germany knock it off or were gonna get in the war. just so happens perl harbor happen right after that and the american's will to go to war jumped to like 80% around the same time britain was about the only free country left in europe. then we bombed japan (I know where never gonna live that down but it did save lives....)

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Krux
then we bombed japan (I know where never gonna live that down but it did save lives....)

In the long run hopefully

 

[Krux]

Re: Re: Re: Krux.....

Originally posted by Geffy
Hey I am sorry if you felt I was insulting your country, there are parts of the US that I lived while I was there, Louisiana, Florida, the Keys, I want to go to California and dive the Kelp Forests. I was mainly attacking your governments foreign policy.
I remember a great edition of Jon Stewart and the G7 or G9 summit, they showd Blair talking as he usually does but sounding like he knew what was going on, then a clip of Bush sort of chewin or suckin on his lip. It was great the crap they gave hime for just sitting there and looking like a nonce.

Yes I know you give your government crap as well I just dont understand why there seems to be so much support for the war, its ok to support your troops, but supporting the war is a separate issue.
Granted Saddam needs to be removed, but I feel that the US belief of Freedom and Democracy and diplomacy should be able to exhaust all other possible avenues before war is even considered.

I think bush (even tho he wouldn't admit it) has a vendetta agains't saddam because he made his dad look like a moron.

and its not even that u ripped on USA its that you ripped on our guys there over there dying for what they blieve is right and u make it sound like there un skilled boobs. rip on bush tell your fingures fall off for all I care but not the troops there just doing what they think is the right thing to do. a few of them made a misstake and shot down a friendly. my gf has punched me in the face a few times, granted I didn't die from it but it was an accident.

 

[Geffy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Krux.....

Originally posted by Krux
I think bush (even tho he wouldn't admit it) has a vendetta agains't saddam because he made his dad look like a moron.

Whys he got a vendetta makin his dad look like a moron aint that hard, though it is a helluva lot easier to do that to the younger bush.

I feel that we got dragged into this war because Blair is a fkin poodle and then we get shot down by our allies, heck maybe Allah is on the side of Saddam with the way some of this is going.

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by Geffy
I am sorry but I dont think that "y'all" is an improvement.

Now again I am sorry if I have offended you, but these are my views.

HAHAHAHA I would never say y'all EVER yumpto it maybe





j/k I wouldn't say that either

(you up to it)

 

[Krux]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Krux.....

Originally posted by Geffy
Whys he got a vendetta makin his dad look like a moron aint that hard, though it is a helluva lot easier to do that to the younger bush.

I feel that we got dragged into this war because Blair is a fkin poodle and then we get shot down by our allies, heck maybe Allah is on the side of Saddam with the way some of this is going.

really if you compare it to any other war is not bad (as not bad as war gets????) total casualties are in the 30's I think how many died in just one battle in WW2? couple thousand maybe? how many in a day? tens of thousands? a month or so? 50 thousand?


im talking everyone's put together not just one country.

 

[sww16]

If I'm not mistaken, the British plane got targeted because it's tracking emitter was not working and it could not be identified. It happened shortly after the grenades were thrown into the commander's tents and the US soldiers thought they were under attack.

 

[damnyank]

I have been watching this thread - paying some attention to it - but not total attention as I originally had no intention to add to the bull$hit that is flying here!

However - I guess I am old school and have mixed feelings as to what is really going on in this thread - you see, I have kin in England (my wife is originally English and I was the oversexed, overpaid and over there GI who married her going on 34 years ago). I feel I have a totally different perspective of this entire situation - you see I was one of the "ugly americans" ((which probably very few Brits knew about) who helped the Brits in the Fauklands with technical expertise and equipment/maintenance support of certrain systems on their airplanes that permitted them to fly a little more safely into hostile areas.

I also flew to Enlgand for a three week visit the beginning of Oct 2001 - just 3 weeks after 911 and that was scarey - but those dang terrorists were not going to stop me from seeing my inlaws.

I kidded while I was there about how well "Uncle Tony and "Uncle George" got along and now good old "Uncle Tony" is being called names - well to each their own - call them as you see them!

To me it is unfortunate when something like "friendly fire" kills one's allies - the US soldier who rolled the gernade into the command tent is just plain crazy and one can not help but wonder if that could not have been foreseen - but yes, I feel very sorry for the families of the Tornado's crew and anyone else kiled/injured- be they British, American or any of the other allies who suffer a loss during this conflict!

However - as harsh as it may sound - $hit happens during war - not all the things that happen are nice, nor acceptable by everyone - but the Americans and the Brits have a long history of support for each other and there is no reason for that to change now!

Sorry if someone thinks I ranted (no flaming intended) - I guess I just have a different outlook on things being torn between the two as I consider both countries a very big and important part of my life!

 

[Krux]

Shoty British engineering



British components, American components, ALL MADE IN TAWIAN!!

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Krux
HAHAHAHA I would never say y'all EVER yumpto it maybe

j/k I wouldn't say that either

(you up to it)

Thank god!!!

Originally posted by damnyank
I was the oversexed, overpaid and over there GI

Classic, sorry I just couldnt not quote that Yer yanks, yer steelen arr women

Originally posted by Krux
Shoty British engineering



British components, American components, ALL MADE IN TAWIAN!!

I believe you will find that was Russian components, the british ones are just fine thank you

Originally posted by sww16
If I'm not mistaken, the British plane got targeted because it's tracking emitter was not working and it could not be identified. It happened shortly after the grenades were thrown into the commander's tents and the US soldiers thought they were under attack.

Damn batteries

and what was up with that grenade guy, the news said he had not flipped and that he was "settling a grudge"! Helluva (damn american isms, cant break some of em) time to go and settle a grudge. :huh:

 

[Kush]

dont know!

guys i dont know if ure seeing this but sky news also shows this for british people, but we the arabs were the first the see the pow's futage and its kinda disturbing as u heard probably, but they are not allowing it to be aired in the us for some reason, here we get all the arab stations (which they all aired it) and sky news, and msnbc and abc and all the other american networks, they said that it will not be aired on american news, they just show very limited clips of it. on sky news they showed it complete just like on the arab news. it also shows iraqi deaths just wanted to keep u guys updated!

 

[kitct]

The grenade guy was apparently a muslim who had recently converted to Islam.

The news media is bein very careful about not letting that bit of it to get out.

I have read it but can't find the link right now.Here's a bit though:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030331-435901,00.html

 

[Sazar]

lots of opinions in here..

the us has a very unfortunate recent history of friendly fire 'accidents'... and it is going to have to work hard to clean up this image... claiming to have the best weapons and then knocking down allies is not good... remember the canadians... the italians... and now the british... of course casualties of war is expected and accidents happen but to shoot down ones own plane?

per what I have been reading the planes always emit IFF which basically answers the questioning friend or foe status of the plane.. once verified... weapons lock is dropped.. hence it was a malfunction on the MISSLE side IMO rather than the tornado...

perhaps the reasons is we are a little too trigger happy and we have 18-19 year old kids thrust out in the limelight who may not be making the best decisions.. thats one reason I like teh british troops.. all professionals..

I completely support our troops who are in iraq... they are doing their job and have my complete support but krux is wrong when he says they are doing something THEY believe in.. they are soldiers and must complete the objectives @ hand.. it is their JOB.. whether they think it is right or wrong... I have friends who are currently enlisted who went even though they did not agree with the agenda.. because it is what they do..

there is a lot of propaganda in this war... I am not inclined to believe everything our media is throwing out to us.. there are too many conflicting reports and everything is being shown in the best light possible... it is expected when the news is somewhat censored... what really gets me is that family members are finding out about their loved ones in the NEWS.. and that too on a foreign news station... what the hell happened to our communications? we can't even account for missing troops ?

also... the atomic bombs were not necessary... if you read the historical reports... the japanese were in retreat and ready to surrender... just hoping for better terms from the us government... to justify the bombings as saving lives is glossing over the fact and making us feel less guilty than we should be... that was the single most (well 2 bombs) senseless atrocity in the history of WAR IMHO... and hiding behind the fact that it would SAVE LIVES is NOT the way to look @ it... hundreds of thousands of civilians were affected.. NOT troops... but civilians... please do not negate their suffering by saying it was a necessity...

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by kitct
The grenade guy was apparently a muslim who had recently converted to Islam.

The news media is bein very careful about not letting that bit of it to get out.

I have read it but can't find the link right now.Here's a bit though:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030331-435901,00.html

having a muslim name means jack-all... just look @ all the school shootings in the US and the oklahoma city bombing... the soldier was a US citizen... who apparently was unfit to serve in the capacity designated..

 

[sww16]

This could go on and on.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by sww16
This could go on and on.

thats one of the points of having discussions

obviously there are strong views about one thing or the other and the fact of the matter is no one is trying to change the other persons point of view.. at least I am not..

different people view different facts from different perspectives...

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by kitct
The grenade guy was apparently a muslim who had recently converted to Islam.

The news media is bein very careful about not letting that bit of it to get out.

I have read it but can't find the link right now.Here's a bit though:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030331-435901,00.html

sorry but that just reeks of propaganda to me