The War Has Started

[Tabula Rasa]

Originally posted by Sazar
no doubt... look what they did to your cow...

Sazar, your obsessed.

 

[kitct]

Originally posted by renakuajo
no i dont wanna live that way, but we are really different from them.....for starter they are in this world way before us.............they like the way they live what make u belief that they dont??? we are different cultures please remember that

There is no comparison to the way that they (have to) live and the way that we live.Like comparing apples to...bicycles.

There is a history concerning their dictator and his rise to power and how he maintains that power.The best word to desribe it is fear.Do you actually believe that anybody likes to live in fear?We have a choice to ignore or to be ignorant of history.They do not.

They have no choice about diddley-squat.Zip, zero, nadda.No freedom and virtually no economy.Oil and thats it.But the oil has nothing to do with the citizens.Only Saddam.Sanctions or no sanctions, makes no difference.That is not a "culture".

Some of them do apparently say that they like the idea of freedom(when it's safe to talk):
A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."
Link:
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

So you are free to defend murder, rape, torture,tyranny, starvation, homelessness, no medicine, no education and on and on ad-naseum from your cozy little flat behind your PC.

Want to talk about shame.THAT is a shame.

 

[Tabula Rasa]

kitct, you are right if you look at it from a "theoretical" perspective.
the truth is that your sitting at home/work , and you look at all this happening, and while your not really a part of it you come up with a really nice ideology about how people should live.
well thats fine, but the the average Iraqi person is not gaining anything from this war, he is only loosing.
most of Iraqs population don't have much time to sit around and ponder about their freedom, people need and want to work and provide for their families, and when your home town is being bombed that sure don't help you getting to work.

and once the U.S. achieves its goal and will kill/overthrow the previous government, things will stay pretty much the same, most of Iraqs population will keep working hard for money that in the U.S. people wont bother getting up in the morning.

assuming the U.S. wont declare of Iraq as another state, once the U.S. fully achieves its goal (and right now i have no idea what it is), they will leave Iraq with a temporary government that will probably collapse in a short time (politics are funny that way) or will become as corrupted as the old government.
and all that assuming that things go the way they are planned (a short clean operation) , if not, a long term war will probably kill the Iraqi economy completely, and increase the gap between the poor and the rich to an "un-restore-able" point(making it even more of a 3rd world country)

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by Geffy
the americans shot down one of their allies....

lesson never join a war with america in it, both sides will suffer.

The gwb is like a 9 year old boy with his toys, he needs to grow up before being given command of a country

thats not fair geffy had we not entered WW I or WW II you prolly wouldn't even exist how would u like hiltler as your leader huh?! if it wasn't for england and the US the world would be a very dark place. people make mistakes, are u trying to say your perfect? thats a misstake in its self.

 

[Krux]

in fact we even tryed to stay out of WW II because after WW I all you people wanted to do was punish Germany when they weren't even the ones who started the war austria/hungry was so we were like screw it u guys deal with your own !@#% then when hitler was kickin everyones @ss over there you guys where like ohhh save us help us please!!! and now every time we try and stop the s.hit b4 it hits the fan everyone is like @#$!en americans who asked you to interfer. I think maybe we should just say #@$% you all and let u guys deal with your crazy people and then when they take over europe don't ask us for any damn help. (but not british can't forget the motherland)



its so easy for you to critisize us for trying to help you (well maybe not you) and then when we don't help we get critisized even more. ohhhhhhh so the big super power america can't help the little guy from the crazy man. how bad do we look then? where like the big brother we are sposed to be watching out for the little guy. did u ever cuss out your big bro for sticking up for you? HELL NO you didn't but as soon as u hear united states over there people start mumbling capitalist pigs think there better then everyone else blah blah blah. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US TO DO?!?! give up our money and tell people they can't live here anymore so were a small weak country?


(in case you didn't notice u pissed me off geffy with your stupid comment)



I'm sorry to the people who read my post and get affended I didn't mean to upset anyone I love everyone in the human race, but why do you have to hate on america because we try to help?!

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by Benny
kitct, you are right if you look at it from a "theoretical" perspective.
the truth is that your sitting at home/work , and you look at all this happening, and while your not really a part of it you come up with a really nice ideology about how people should live.
well thats fine, but the the average Iraqi person is not gaining anything from this war, he is only loosing.
most of Iraqs population don't have much time to sit around and ponder about their freedom, people need and want to work and provide for their families, and when your home town is being bombed that sure don't help you getting to work.

and once the U.S. achieves its goal and will kill/overthrow the previous government, things will stay pretty much the same, most of Iraqs population will keep working hard for money that in the U.S. people wont bother getting up in the morning.

assuming the U.S. wont declare of Iraq as another state, once the U.S. fully achieves its goal (and right now i have no idea what it is), they will leave Iraq with a temporary government that will probably collapse in a short time (politics are funny that way) or will become as corrupted as the old government.
and all that assuming that things go the way they are planned (a short clean operation) , if not, a long term war will probably kill the Iraqi economy completely, and increase the gap between the poor and the rich to an "un-restore-able" point(making it even more of a 3rd world country)

The american people pay for the damage we cause we always have, we will rebuild there citys and we will do it from our taxes, the taxes our people pay. I honestly don't believe that we will just get the government out and just leave. and the united states doesn't adopt states they apply and then they are brought into the union, thats completely upto Iraq. when we "liberated" cuba from the spanish we setup a government and castro went down there and took it over, that wasn't our fault and we even tryed to get him out a few times. I think they live decent over there least hes not a crazy person to the same extent as saddam.

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Krux
thats not fair geffy had we not entered WW I or WW II you prolly wouldn't even exist how would u like hiltler as your leader huh?! if it wasn't for england and the US the world would be a very dark place. people make mistakes, are u trying to say your perfect? thats a misstake in its self.

Hey thanks for comin into WWII there, nice bit of help, but the US only joined when it was attacked, had Japan not attacked you then you probably wouldnt have joined until Hitler and the Japanese both came after you.

I am not stating that I am, nor anyone is perfect. But as the US pours so much money into their defense budget I would personally expect some much better safeguards when it comes to launching missiles on friendly aircraft.

Originally posted by Krux
ohhhhhhh so the big super power america can't help the little guy from the crazy man. how bad do we look then? where like the big brother we are sposed to be watching out for the little guy. did u ever cuss out your big bro for sticking up for you? HELL NO you didn't but as soon as u hear united states over there people start mumbling capitalist pigs think there better then everyone else blah blah blah. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US TO DO?!?! give up our money and tell people they can't live here anymore so were a small weak country?

The big bro, if anything America is the teenage adolescent who is all decked out in weapons screaming for an opportunity to use them. No I never cussed out my big bro for stickin up for me cause I dont have one. I have on the other hand had my sister get pissed off at me for interfering.
What would I like you to do? I would like the US to give the weapons inspectors more time. If anything Saddam now has more opportunity to use his WOMD (if he has them) than he did when the inspectors were there. If he uses them now he can claim that yes he had them hidden away but for the use of defense of his nation(or regime). If he had used them with the inspectors in there, the whole weight of the world would have been upon him (and no one is that stupid).

Originally posted by Krux
(in case you didn't notice u pissed me off geffy with your stupid comment)

I was respecting your viewpoint up to this line, or more specifically "stupid comment" after then, well...

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Krux
we "liberated" cuba from the spanish we setup a government and castro went down there and took it over, that wasn't our fault and we even tryed to get him out a few times. I think they live decent over there least hes not a crazy person to the same extent as saddam.

Not a crazy person, he threatened the US more than Saddam has, it was a fair few years ago but he did. Also the US is now "not involved" with Cuba, well they wont be until Castro is dead I think.

 

[Krux]

like I saidpeople make misstakes it was a plane doing mach 3 kinda hard for ground troops to tell the markings on the side of a plane at 900mph (faster? I'm not sure how fast a mach is) and I already staed the fact that we didn't join WW II was because of WW I after that america went into a hermit type state and we didn't want to have anything to do with your wars we helped u guys win and you wouldn't listen to what we had to say about the versigh treaties everyone was over there going u pay this and u loose that germany when it really wasn't there war they where just backing there allies. and yes your comment was stupid to say that as soon as the USA gets into a war that were gonna start shooting our own guys or our allies is just childish and ignorant. and bush maybe our president but you need to remember THE PEOPLE run this country not one man. if the people don't like whats going on we have the power to stop it.

 

[toxicity]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81935,00.html

here is the proof that some people where saying that there wasn't any

 

[Krux]

yah I saw that on the news last night, but anit american people like some around here won't believe it just because we said it.

 

[renakuajo]

Originally posted by Kruxwe "liberated" cuba from the spanish we setup a government and castro went down there and took it over, that wasn't our fault and we even tryed to get him out a few times. I think they live decent over there least hes not a crazy person to the same extent as saddam.

u see.....US set up a goverment...the goverment of fulgencio batista........Castro didnt took anything......the people of Cuba take it and Castro was/is its leader.......The batista goverment was a dictatorship the same as the Castro with the only difference it was friendly to USA.......

i dont know guys but castro has how much? 25? 30? 40? years in power..........there is no starvation problem in Cuba, they do well in olympics........their medicine is one of the best in the whole world.........his goverment has some issues but the country is well.......is not Irak or any midlle east countries...there are lots of people in the country that fully suport castro as well people that will like a change

 

[renakuajo]

FOXNews!!!!! what a joke!!!!

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by renakuajo
u see.....US set up a goverment...the goverment of fulgencio batista........Castro didnt took anything......the people of Cuba take it and Castro was/is its leader.......The batista goverment was a dictatorship the same as the Castro with the only difference it was friendly to USA.......

i dont know guys but castro has how much? 25? 30? 40? years in power..........there is no starvation problem in Cuba, they do well in olympics........their medicine is one of the best in the whole world.........his goverment has some issues but the country is well.......is not Irak or any midlle east countries...there are lots of people in the country that fully suport castro as well people that will like a change

like I said I thought they lived pretty well people from the US go there for vacation and stuff. castro went to school in the US I dunno what that has to do with anything but thought I would throw that in there.

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by renakuajo
FOXNews!!!!! what a joke!!!!

I saw it on NBC last night and it was on MSN (I think there in bed together not sure MSNBC) ehhh

 

[mbunny]

I find it really stupid that the first few casualties was caused by the coalition themselves.

And the stupid marines that fired a Patriot into a British plane. There was an unneeded loss of life.

All this technology and a failure in communication caused the death of 2 pilots. gg

 

[Krux]

Originally posted by mbunny
I find it really stupid that the first few casualties was caused by the coalition themselves.

And the stupid marines that fired a Patriot into a British plane. There was an unneeded loss of life.

All this technology and a failure in communication caused the death of 2 pilots. gg

I agree it was a waste of life but computers don't make errors people do. billion dallor aircraft if the pilot tells it to fly into the side of a mountain its gonna fly into the side of a mountain. (even tho im sure collision warnings would drive him insane)

 

[sacred2nite]

Krux.....

Krux, I understand what you are saying and i agree that the rest of the world can be too anti-American at times. I cant speak for the rest of the world but i can give my opinion on why i think there is sometimes anti-American feelings in the UK.
Most British people do not dislike America, or American people. But sometimes we do perceive some American people as being arrogant and blindly patriotic.
We hear all these reports about your president and how he cant even name some of world leaders and does not even read! We see him on TV and just see this stupid, inarticulate, arrogant man, who always seems to say the wrong thing and yet some Americans seem to think he is great! This man is only president because of his dad. As the biggest power in the world you need the best leader in the world. Someone who is a bit more user friendly, maybe?
Here in the UK we scrutinize every action our government makes. We love our country but we know that blind patriotism is dangerous. The British government often gets a hard time off us. And so they should!!!
I do not claim we are perfect, i mean how could anyone say a country with a monarchy is perfect!!!! I mean how stupid is that??? Also I realize that there are some people who are anti-American just because of jealousy but you should rise above that because it cant be helped.
Please do not read this and feel insulted. I am by no means, anti-American. A lot of amazing things (good things) come out of America and I hope to visit it very soon. You just need to be a bit more tactile when you speak and a bit critical about your own government and country.
Sorry for any offense caused.

 

[toxicity]

Originally posted by Krux
I saw it on NBC last night and it was on MSN (I think there in bed together not sure MSNBC) ehhh

ya, just wanted to show those that didn't.

IMHO Im getting sick of all those protesters saying there is no proof when there is. I mean, if Saddam doesnt have Chemical weapons, why would he order his commanders to use them.

 

[XP Abuser]

it happens every time. the yanks kill us. no matter what battle... they manage to do it.

firstly... they said saddam didnt have WOMD ok so where the **** did he get those scud missiles from... which everyone knows is blatantly in breach of 14-41.

also the world cannot trust a leader that makes weapons - as we all know that the only use for weapons is to destroy.
hitler was slowly building up his forces and without warning invaded neighbouring countries. this is clearly what they dont want to happen with saddam.

next as geffy clearly pointed out america only helped us in wwII because of the attacks on pearl harbour. and would have merrily sat on its fat ass through the whole conflict. which could have still been going today. but for that we thank them and their our best allie in our world.

also iraq was one of the richest countries in the middle east before saddam came to power. and us brits even stuck a monarchy in there for them to piss em off out of our way. but now decades on they need our help again... will these arab countries ever get their fingers out... and liberate themselves.