Matrix Reloaded - SPOILERS Included!

[Kr0m]

hehe dealer, I see the point you are trying to make there with saying Neo might not be the one.

As for a savior baby, um, I'm not sure how long it takes to have a baby in the matrix... hopefully around nine months, I don't think Zion has that much time left.

This whole story tells us no to believe everything we see, what is real, are you who you really are, etc... With dealer's posts about Neo NOt being the one, maybe he's touched on something. Why is Neo the one? Because they tell him he is? Why should he or anyone else or even us believe that? Why does there HAVE to be "THE ONE". Why can't a GROUP of people like the ones from Zion be the saviors as a whole? Why can't a group of people save humanity, instead of being just 'the one' or christ figure that saves them. Can't humanity as a whole BE "The One"?

For those of you that dislike comparing this to religion, do some reading or what have you, about these movies. This series is full of religious & philisophical overtones.

 

[busto]

Thoughts on Reloaded (small spoiler here)

I know there are already two threads about this flick, but I thought since I was one of the few dissenters before it came out that I would post one of my own.
Let me begin by saying that I couldn't wait to come here after it came out and telling everyone "I told you it was going to suck". Well, as I remove my foot from my mouth let me say, HOLY JIMMINY FLIPPING CHRIST IN A CHICKEN BASKET!!! This flick is freaking spectacular. All the questions it answered all the new ones it posed. I did think the fighting scenes were a little over done, like they were trying to outdo the first, but I guess those were there for the unenlightened in the realms of philosophy and ancient knowledge (mythology, gnostic writings ,etc.), filler for the simpletons so to speak. I thought the rave was also a little drawn out. Other than these things I was completely enthralled by the story and the implications. Even with the slight flaws I think it to be a great flick. I'm somewhat pleased that my doubts were proved wrong.

Oh and EP I saw where you said in the other post "We'll find out more about Persephone in the third" I think that Persephone is actually the Mother of the Matrix that The Architect was refering to. Look at the way he scoffs at Neo when Neo assumes he means The Oricle. Then the way she wants to FEEL his love for Trinity, almost like it was a feeling she always hoped for but could never fully grasp because she's a program. Plus the Persephone stories of mythology also lend into this way of thinking. just my thoughts.

 

[Khayman]

For the last time I'M The One!

BTW in mythology, Persephone is the daughter of Zeus and the wife of Hades...Mmmm food for thought maybe

Threads Merged

 

[gonaads]

Originally posted by Khayman
For the last time I'M The One!

BTW in mythology, Persephone is the daughter of Zeus and the wife of Hades...Mmmm food for thought maybe

Threads Merged

Well the French cussin dude is EVIL and if Persephone is his wife/woman then there is the similarity.

Maybe Neo is THE ONE because he cracked the code of the Matrix. Afterall he IS a hacker. Maybe it's that there were 5 hackers (sudo THE ONEs ) before him but they did not have the skills to totally hack the Matrix and command it like Neo can.

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by Khayman
For the last time I'M The One!

BTW in mythology, Persephone is the daughter of Zeus and the wife of Hades...Mmmm food for thought maybe

Threads Merged

it was Hera the wife of Zeus, and she tricked and betrayed a lot of people so maybe Smith is the mother


BTW did you know that Carrie-Ann Moss did all those motorbike scenes herself

 

[Teddy]

Well, i've had a good read of all you lovely people's arguments and ides. Very interesting. But Dealer, pleeeease, yours were by far the weakest - way too hung up on that 'kiss' (this is not a kiss at all, it is simply code interacting with code and is why after Trinity's initial discomfort she sat back and let him do what he had to. IT WAS NOT REAL)

Putting it simply, the choice he had was either 'kiss' this program or be responsible for the death of humanity. Urm, difficult one i know...go think about it for a few minutes. Still struggling?.......

Trinity knew this also, she understood that the easiest and quickest way past this obstacle was for Neo to comply - why waste time going round (ie not 'kissing' her) when it was possible to go straight through (ie 'kissing' her and then being shown to the KeyMaker). Its all quite straight forward stuff here! That's all she was; an obstacle - another test for Neo. You keep saying that he failed this test, quite the opposite im afraid; he done what he had to do and got what he needed. Trinity is not some psycho jealous tart that will go off the hook over it, she understands that the matrix is NOT REAL and that Neo wasn't really kissing her. Neo doesnt even see her as a gorgeous looking woman in a tastefully
tight dress - he only sees code remember!? That is ALL he sees, it is him decifering the Matrix. This wasnt a temptation for him, just code he had to break. Persephone had GIVEN him the password to access the keymaker, all he had to do was input it!

I hope that gets across the point im making.

No relationship was "forsaken"...stop being such a drama queen! Trinity went into the matrix (after being told not to by Neo) to save the one she loves. He then saves her (the one HE loves). All this took place AFTER the 'kiss'.

My opinion is that Neo is still definately The One, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he has if he wasn't. They would not waste over 5 hours of film with him being the one!! That's kerraazzyy!

I think the fact that he could use his 'powers' outside the Nebekenezzer (typo?) is in someway a representation of him now being able to access a higher level of code. He can control (what we knew as) the matrix and now also the next level of the program (places 'outside' what we/they thought was the matrix). Perhaps that is what going through that door did - a 'next level' kinda thing going on. He still cant fully understand the new code or use it, hence him feeling "different" and being knocked out when stopped the robots (ie he didnt use it in the correct way and got hurt). I think everything that is going on throughout the entire two films, whatever they have been doing, is all set in the matrix, just because we/they were led to believe otherwise doesnt mean it was true.

Just my thoughts - am i on to something here or am i just rambling like a fool?!


PS Besides, i've got a clip from the movie as my avatar...i MUST be right!!

 

[Perris Calderon]

Well, i've had a good read of all you lovely people's arguments and ides. Very interesting. But Dealer, pleeeease, yours were by far the weakest - way too hung up on that 'kiss' (this is not a kiss at all, it is simply code interacting with code and is why after Trinity's initial discomfort she sat back and let him do what he had to. IT WAS NOT REAL)

sorry

that whole scene was put in there for a reason...IT WASN'T PUT THERE TO TAKE UP SOME TIME.

I'm not hung up on a kiss at all.

I'm hung up neo forsaking the women he's supposed to be in love with

neo failed

he is not the savior

though he might be the one that the computer made up, he cannot possibly be the savior of mankind

sorry

 

[Grandmaster]

a interesting tack-on theory from another website courtesy of o_87....

"Ideas, thoughts, and speculations after a second viewing:

--The purpose of "the anamoly" in question is more than simply to reset the Matrix. The Architect implies that all of these circular Matrices are designed to test and study the anomoly, in an attempt to weed it out of the system, thus creating perfection. The anomoly in question isn't Neo...it's the concept of love. The first batch of The Ones were specifically programmed to experience the human emotion of love, but in a very general sense, manifesting as a love for all of mankind. Neo is the machines' attempt to focus the study, since thanks to the Oracle's influence, his love for Trinity has grown very specific, and thus difficult to predetermine. Love is the emotion that the machines cannot feel, and thus, cannot understand or predict. By creating Messianic figures within the world of the Matrix, they create virtual templates where constant love is projected and reflected through them. That's the purpose of this entire little game--to study the relationship between love and power on its most basic and elemental level.

--And if the above theory is correct, it makes the purpose of the Merovingian pretty obvious. He's a program that writes human emotions in code form, a routing program that "traffics information" into predetermined patterns and rhythms approximating human emotoions.

--Persephone is the only vampire in the film, not the twins or Cain and Abel. She is an emotional vampire, a program designed to test and sample human emotion through physical contact. That's the reason behind her kiss, and the reason she helps Neo free the Keymaker. She tests Neo to sample whether or not his love is genuine (and therefore, whether or not he will be useful to the Architect yet). That is her purpose.

--If the real world actually IS "the real world", then they're going to need a damn good explaination how a binary set of ones and zeros can possess a man's mind, or how direct contact with Agent Smith can provide Neo with the ability to create telepathic links with the sentinels. Saying that "some of Agent Smith rubbed off on Neo" just won't cut it. The Brothers have dug themselves a hole here, and there aren't many ways out of it. Either the real world is just another Matrix, or they're asking the audience to buy some pretty incredible leaps of faith. My money is still on the former." End quote.

Wow. Love. Isn't that what the Matrix was about? Love, love between Trinity and Neo? This would explain the Architect and Persophone storyline. I never thought of this. Is it true? Who knows. Just more theories to throw at ya!!!

 

[Geffy]

Originally posted by o_87
Saying that "some of Agent Smith rubbed off on Neo" just won't cut it.

could Neo's mind not have taken some of the code of Agent Smith and manipulated it or something, I mean the machines were able to control that one guy who was in Zion didnt they. They were able to tell who he was and not kill him.

 

[gonaads]

o_87, You have come across a very interesting thing there. Not a bad "what if".

Geffy, in the first movie Neo destroyed Agent Smith by going into Smith or infecting him in a sence. So maybe when this occured Neo and Smith got mixed together and that is why Smith is "unplugged" from the Main Frame. As Smith said, he knew what he was supposed to do when he was destroyed. But he didn't, ie... Go back to the Main Frame and be assimilated back into the "code". So now Smith is an anomaly also, like Neo but not the same. Smith can now overwrite any character written by the Matrix.

Now maybe because of the connection with Neo the character that is infected/overwritten by Smith is also in a coma. I don't think the Machines can manipulate that character because Smith is in control of him. Why he was spared, unknown for now. If Smith can manipulate that person enough maybe he was able to evaid the Sentinals. It will be interesting though when we find out.

 

[Teddy]

dealer, stop posting the same stuff over and over...doesnt make it any more convincing. Copying and pasting isnt a way of arguing your case!

And you are just contradiciting yourself:
"I'm not hung up on a kiss at all."
and then...
"I'm hung up neo forsaking the women he's supposed to be in love with"

Its the same scene, of which you have been referring to throughout your "theory". Its not holding up at all.

"that whole scene was put in there for a reason...IT WASN'T PUT THERE TO TAKE UP SOME TIME." Finally!! Something to agree on. But it certainly wasnt in the film for the reason you're trying to promote.

Neo is the main character, he has been for two films. They are not suddenly going to make another character "The One" - the would be rediculous. You simply DONT base 2 parts of a trilogy round a character and then in the third make him obselete...upstaged by someone else....that's just common sense!

 

[Teddy]

@ o_87's post..

nice idea, but waaay to idealistic. That would be too much ham n cheese for my liking (and hopefully anyone elses)! To end a film like this on that kind of note would be cringe-worthy. Besides, other than a couple of kisses and a quick sh@g there has been no careful development (story-wise) or focus on Neo and Trininty's love for each other - or at least not enough to base the ending on.

But I would imagine that this idea would go towards explaining Merovingian's and Persephone's characters (they were partners when they were first introduced in the film).

 

[Teddy]

@dealer,

apologies for what may be seen as a go at you. It is not. I just dont agree at all with your idea!

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Geffy
it was Hera the wife of Zeus, and she tricked and betrayed a lot of people so maybe Smith is the mother


BTW did you know that Carrie-Ann Moss did all those motorbike scenes herself

yes quite impressive... but less so when you consider that most of the obstacles you see on the screen are digitally created...

 

[Teddy]

Originally posted by Sazar
yes quite impressive... but less so when you consider that most of the obstacles you see on the screen are digitally created...

Yes, but most impressive was her ass as she straddled to get on the bike!





....oops.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Teddy
Yes, but most impressive was her ass as she straddled to get on the bike!





....oops.

she didn't age too well from the first installment

besides.. I was too busy staring @ jada pinkett and monica bellucci to care about carie-ann moss...

 

[Teddy]

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106062

TV Series called Matrix...and guess who stars in it?......

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Teddy
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106062

TV Series called Matrix...and guess who stars in it?......

nick mancusso ?

 

[Perris Calderon]

no offense taken teddy...I'm having fun saying the same thing over and over, so I'll do it some more

no

while neo may be the one that the computer made up, he is not the savior of mankind...if this is a well written piece

sorry

and once again, it's not the kiss

get get over that allready

it's him forsaking the women he loves...

the same scene of course as the kiss, but the whole scene is put there for the purpose of showing tha neo fails in his dovotion...pretty simple allusion as far as I can see

I'll say it again, and maybe this time it'll work...(tee hee)

no, neo is not the savior of mankind, that's left for someone else

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
no offense taken teddy...I'm having fun saying the same thing over and over.

but no

while neo may be the one that the computer made up, he is not the savior of mankind...sorry

and again, it's not the kiss

get over that allready

it's him forsaking the women he loves.

the same scene of course, but the whole scene is put there for the purpose of showing tha neo fails

I'll say it again, and maybe this time it'll work...(tee hee)

no, neo is not the savior of mankind, that's left for someone else

thats your opinion dealer... and thus far you seem to be the only one supporting it

perhaps consider putting it thus "I hypothesize that Neo is NOT the savior of mankind"