Bush or Kerry?

[Xie]

Thats not true though. There are Iraqi's of course that are fighting, but alot of the insurgents are from Syria and Saudi Arabia, I'm guessing you are reading the largest, most organized spin machine, the US media.

I believe they were US gov. #'s though.

 

[Son Goku]

Kerry served two tours which were four months total. He wounded himself on the second tour to get out. Plain and simple, he's a coward.

If I were a vet, statements like this would leave me less then pleased. You honestly expect me to believe that his wounds were self inflicted because you say so? No offence, but I don't even know who you are.

And yet in your posts in this thread, you have made nothing but unsubstantiated charges and very much do sound like the town gossip or something. Do you get any sorta enjoyment outa making such venamous statements concerning people you don't even know, without even one shred of evidence put forth to back up your critisisms?

From saz's reply

one minor thing I do want to say...

if you are ready to spout b.s. please be ready to back it up... some of the posters here do have more than half a brain and are not quite as gullible as the nascar dads who get all warmed up when bush utters a bushism and then claim he's the man they would love to have a beer with (he happens to be a teetotaller)

accusing someone of being a traitor is a serious charge... you have presented nothing to back it up... in fact if anything you have opened bush and many members of his cabinet open to the same charges you have leveled v/s kerry simply by the criterion you have levelled...

And what is the responce? No offence, but quite frankly, I for one am rather unimpressed.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I'm guessing you are reading the largest, most organized spin machine, the US media.

the u.s media is a wealthy owned marketing tool and a republican spin machin...it's clear, obvious and simple too prove...the term "liberal media" is spewed by the media them selfs like a wolf dressed in sheep clothing that shouts out look for the wolf

this trick works on sheep

some people too

here's a perfect example that can't be denied

ask 100 Americans if Clinton was strong on terrorism, and even include democrats in the survey;

90 will tell you that Clinton was awful

in fact, and according the sworn testimony of Bush aids...rice, rhumsfeld, Tennet, Clark

Clinton as the most aggressive of any president, and the most affective...more aggressive then Reagan,, Bush senior, Bush junior

the media has the public thinking the reverse

then the media will spew the ridiculous "Clinton let bin laden get away"

when in fact, Clinton is the only president that went after bin laden

Reagan not only let bin laden get away, it's his administration that put bin laden in power

Bush senior not only let bin laden get away, he let the power multiply exponentially

Bush junior not only let bin laden get away before the attack, he relaxed the efforts to get bin laden even though his Intel would give uncanny info of an attack his aids implored him to defend against...great...and after the attack, though he knew as a fact it was bin laden, he let bin laden have months in escape before he mounted any effort whatsoever

and there is Clinton, standing alone in the very effort

the "liberal media" has most people somehow convinced that Bush is a strong leader against terrorism

here's another example;

the media will tell you every day that Reagan lowered taxes

in fact, no peace time president before Reagan ever raised taxes more then he did.

this is the media today

 

[Perris Calderon]

All this talk about money from taxes going to rich people ?? Give me a break, the money from taxes is going to welfare (which should be abolished). Get it right !!

LOL Johnny, that is so very true! Totally agreed!

this president took the largest surplus in the history of this country, and somehow in a few short years turned it into the largest deficit in the history of this country...nobody would have ever thought that was possible

that money DID NOT go to people on welfare.

and not only did he do that, but according to he Bush economic adviser, you and me and your children will pay that bill with our retirement fund.

there is no question the president has taken my money and given it to rich people

then he had the NERVE to take money that was earmarked to defend our ports, and used it to make a $5000 give away to rich people.

The media has somehow been able to convince people that this is some kind of valid economic strategy....the media is very convincing

HOW ON EARTH DOES THIS MAN HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN THIS ELECTION????

 

[Johnny]

If I were a vet, statements like this would leave me less then pleased. You honestly expect me to believe that his wounds were self inflicted because you say so? No offence, but I don't even know who you are.

And yet in your posts in this thread, you have made nothing but unsubstantiated charges and very much do sound like the town gossip or something. Do you get any sorta enjoyment outa making such venamous statements concerning people you don't even know, without even one shred of evidence put forth to back up your critisisms?

From saz's reply



And what is the responce? No offence, but quite frankly, I for one am rather unimpressed.

\

Hmm.. Look here | http://kerrylied.com/ | - There seem to be lots of facts that substantiate what is being said about him being a lier and fraud ..

It goes with the same turn as some one blaming bush for things he had nothing to do with. I don't like Kerry, I will never like Kerry, Kerry is a fraud. And to tell the truth I do get enjoyment out of making "venamous" statements about him. Especially if it makes a supporter of his see some lite as what kind of fraud he is

 

[Kush]

kerry kerry kerry

 

[dave holbon]

Where do we go if it’s officially a draw? Or cannot be determined?

 

[Petros]

The election laws prevent a draw. Hopefully it won't end up like 2000, with all the lawyers.

 

[dave holbon]

Please explain how this is possible (a dead heat) in law does someone cast a straw?

 

[Tuffgong4]

the u.s media is a wealthy owned marketing tool and a republican spin machin...it's clear, obvious and simple too prove...the term "liberal media" is spewed by the media them selfs like a wolf dressed in sheep clothing that shouts out look for the wolf

this trick works on sheep

some people too

here's a perfect example that can't be denied

ask 100 Americans if Clinton was strong on terrorism, and even include democrats in the survey;

90 will tell you that Clinton was awful

in fact, and according the sworn testimony of Bush aids...rice, rhumsfeld, Tennet, Clark

Clinton as the most aggressive of any president, and the most affective...more aggressive then Reagan,, Bush senior, Bush junior

the media has the public thinking the reverse

then the media will spew the ridiculous "Clinton let bin laden get away"

when in fact, Clinton is the only president that went after bin laden

Reagan not only let bin laden get away, it's his administration that put bin laden in power

Bush senior not only let bin laden get away, he let the power multiply exponentially

Bush junior not only let bin laden get away before the attack, he relaxed the efforts to get bin laden even though his Intel would give uncanny info of an attack his aids implored him to defend against...great...and after the attack, though he knew as a fact it was bin laden, he let bin laden have months in escape before he mounted any effort whatsoever

and there is Clinton, standing alone in the very effort

the "liberal media" has most people somehow convinced that Bush is a strong leader against terrorism

here's another example;

the media will tell you every day that Reagan lowered taxes

in fact, no peace time president before Reagan ever raised taxes more then he did.

this is the media today

you have said nothing but statements with no merit and no real proof. you have said the same thing over and over and over again but nothing different and nothing with substance or any proof.

I'm not saying you are wrong but your arguments are unconvincing and weak.

 

[Xie]

Hmm.. Look here | http://kerrylied.com/ | - There seem to be lots of facts that substantiate what is being said about him being a lier and fraud ..

It goes with the same turn as some one blaming bush for things he had nothing to do with. I don't like Kerry, I will never like Kerry, Kerry is a fraud. And to tell the truth I do get enjoyment out of making "venamous" statements about him. Especially if it makes a supporter of his see some lite as what kind of fraud he is

That site aside from it's horrid layout and over use of "flashy things" doesn't seem to have anything for information/facts.

 

[Perris Calderon]

you have said nothing but statements with no merit and no real proof. you have said the same thing over and over and over again but nothing different and nothing with substance or any proof.

I'm not saying you are wrong but your arguments are unconvincing and weak.

my arguments are strong and factal

it's just that you've so often heard the wealthy owned media, you don't know the facts..herre they are;

as far as clintons record against terrorism, absolute proof, just read the sworn testimony of the Bush aids, as they made it clear to the Bush commisioned hearing on the events leading to 9/11.

everyone knows Reagan and Bush senior did less then clinton, and by the Bush, Rice, Tennet, and Clarke testimony, Clinton was obsessed with getting bin laden.

in addtion, everyone knows from the 9/11 that Bush himself commisioned, and was headed by a republican, that Bush was warned with precise intel about the bin laden attack soon to occur new york and washington with highjacked commericial jets used as weapons

the aids that wrote this brief under sworn testimony tell us that they informed Bush that that warining was of immediate concern, and never before was their "hair on fire" as it was with that warning

Bush figured doing nothing was a fine and dandy course of action

great

this in sharp contrast to an almost identical warning that president Clinton had...he put this nation on high alert, and did what ever he could to avert the threat...go to page 128 of the report if you don't want to read the whole thing, which you should

thankfully, clinton managed to avert the dissaster that president Bush allowed

as far as the regan tax increases, this is public record, but if you need me to do the research for you, just go to the source that Dick Chaney sites as being accurate, factcheck;

"The single best measure for most purposes is probably the revenue effect as a percentage of GDP." That's Gross Domestic Product, the way we gauge the size of the economy. Clinton's tax increase isn't the biggest by that "best" measure, either. In the period since 1968, the study said, "the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 was the biggest increase." That was the tax increase signed by Ronald Reagan.

That 1982 tax increase only slightly exceeded Clinton's in inflation-adjusted dollars ($37 billion a year vs.. $32 billion) but it was much bigger in relation to the size of the economy. The '82 increase amounted to 4.6% of GDP (average for the first two years) while Clinton's was 2.7%.

or, just do the research;

since the nation was plunging into a deep recession from his supposed "tax reductions", millions were unemployed -- the most since the Great Depression -- and the budget deficit swelled. In 1982, in his bid to trim the deficit, Congress approved the largest tax increase in history,

it's history

 

[o0RaidR0o]

Fact: as soon as bush took office he went looking for any reason and asked of his staff to find a reason to invade Iraq before 911.

Fact: Rumsfield stated to Richard Clarke, former top advisor on counter terrorism, we needed to bomb Iraq, Clarke said no we needed to bomb Afganistan becasue that is where alqeuda is, Rumsfield, rebutted but there aren't any good targets in Afganistan.

Fact: Clarke, the FBI and the CIA at a meeting with Rumsfield all stated that they have been looking at the situation for years and Iraq poses no threat to the US. There is no connection.

Fact: Clarke served Reagan, Bush sr. Clinton, and Bush jr.

Fact: right after 911, Bush called all his top advisors together including Clarke, to come up with a response to the attack. Clarke was taken by surprise when the talks turned quickly to Iraq and not Osama Bin Laden.

Clarkes response was if we attack Iraq it would make as much sense if Roosevelt had attacked Mexico for the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

Fact: Bush stepped into a room within the Situation Room complex taking Clarke and some other people along and stated to Clarke, "I want you to find whether Iraq did this".

Clarke walked away with the undeniable sense that regardless that he was to come back saying Iraq was responsible for 911. Even after Clarke advised Bush that they have been looking at the situation for years and Iraq has no connection, Bush answered Back Iraq, Saddam, find out if there is a connection.

Fact: even after looking at Iraq yet again Clarke, the FBI and CIA concluded there was no connection to Iraq, the report was bounced by the national security advisor with wrong answer, do it again.

Fact: prior to 911 Bush did not take any terrorism threat seriously. Bush held no cabinet level meetings addressing terrorism or bin laden to till 3months after 911.

Fact: Clarke before during and after 911 was all along requesting a cabinet level meeting and was denied. The meeting that took place 3 months after 911 did include Clarke but it was with secondary level members of
Bushes cabinet. During that meeting Paul Wolfawitz stated we don't have to deal with alqeuda, why are we dealing with that little guy, we have to talk about Iraq terrorism against the US. Clarke stated that there hasn't been Iraq terrorism over the last 8 years, which the deputy director of the CIA also stated the same.

Fact: Hans Blix who headed the arms inspection in Iraq, quit when on national television Bush stated that Hans Blix's report confirmed that there where WMD's in Iraq. Reason for quiting, Hans report stated the opposite, that there where no WMD's.

Look folks there is so much more to this and others about Bush that it can no longer be considered smoke but fire.

Bush let 911 happen, so he could have a reason to invade an oil rich country and invaded Iraq for the sole purpose of controlling those oil fields and not to defend this country against terrorism or retaliation for 911.

Bush is the real life Manchurian candidate, bought and paid for by Haliburton

Bush has put in harms way our american soldiers not for honor, not for justice, not to capture Bin Ladin, but oil, Haliburton, Unocal, etc.

You don't invade a country from a single point of attack, especially if that point of attack puts you in the opposite direction of where Bin Ladin was hiding.

You may get your pocket full of pennies now but your children and childrens children will be paying from the fallout for years to come.

You probably didn't know that the patriarch of the Bush family was also handling Hitlers finances during the height of WWII.

I mean would you have gotten behind a man whose family was responsible for the financial well being of the most vial murderous human being in the 20th century?

George Bush is a Nazi in his genes.

His grandfather, Prescott Bush, was a partner in Brown Brothers Harriman and one of the proprietors of the Banking Corporation Union. Both companies played a key role in financing Hitler on his way to power in Germany.

On 20 October 1942, the US government ordered the confiscation of Ranking Corporation Union, owned by Prescott Bush, and in addition seized the Dutch-US Trade Corporation and Seamless Steel Corporation, both administered by the Bush-Hamman Bank.

On 17 November of the same year, Franklin Delano Roosevelt confiscated all assets of the Silesian American Corporation, again administered by Prescott Bush, for trading with the enemy.

George's great-grandfather, God's warrior, Samuel Bush, father of the Nazi Prescott Bush, was the right hand man of the steel magnate Clarence Dillon and the banker Fritz Thyssen, who wrote a book called I Paid Hitler, joining the German Socialist Workers Party in 1931.

An important part of the basis for the Bush family fortune was created by the help it offered Adolf Hitler. The current president of the United States, as his father (ex-director of the CIA, vice-president and president), reached the summit of the North-American political hierarchy because his grandfather, great-grandfather and their political family aided and abetted the Nazis". This without going into how the Bush family swindled and embezzled four-and-a-half million dollars from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida, or the fraud of millions of savers at the Silverado Savings Bank (Denver, Colorado).

You can just about spit in any direction, turn over a stone and there hidden in the darkness is a Bush legacy in infamy.

How could any decent American even pretend to buy into what ever Bush has done or said.

Shame on us!

 

[Sazar]

Kerry served two tours which were four months total. He wounded himself on the second tour to get out. Plain and simple, he's a coward. He will be a worse President than Clinton ever was if he is elected. He never sticks to what he says and is full of garbage with every word that comes out of his mouth. All you people who are supporting will see that he is so wrong. He won't do any of the things he claims. He will make the Bush senior lie look like a sunday school picnic. He is a liar, a cheat, a fraud, a trader, a coward, a back stabber, a crook, a robber, a two faced idiotic windbag in search of his own idiocy. He's such a putts ..

if you have nothing to contribute to this thread... you are free to leave...

spouting partisan b.s. for the sake of spouting partisan b.s. is something we can get from any other joe blow site online...

 

[Tuffgong4]

All I said Perris was that I wanted something more concrete not more everyone knows this and everyone knows that. It seems to be almost all of your argument, an trust me you are not the only one who does this Pro-Bush and Pro-Kerry aside.

But I just got more of the same...hmmm sounds a lot like stuff I heard on the wealthy owned media channels...

Personally I think most of the Pro-Bush people here do the same thing that you do as well Perris. There is no substance to these "facts" And if everyone is so ignorant where is that you get all of your information?

I just hope people don't come here looking for advice when it comes to this election cause they might as well watch Moore and O'Reilly for their answers

 

[Petros]

...everyone knows this and everyone knows that. It seems to be almost all of your argument...

I get the same feeling. Anyway, I always link everything I say with a valid source.

By the way, Dave Holbon, as far as a tie goes, are you referring to the electoral college (somewhat possible) or the popular vote (you wouldn't have to worry too much about that--chances are one in millions). In the event of an electoral college tie, the Vice President casts the deciding vote.

 

[Son Goku]

\

Hmm.. Look here | http://kerrylied.com/ | - There seem to be lots of facts that substantiate what is being said about him being a lier and fraud ..

ROFL, that site looks to be a joke. Quite frankly it looks like a cheaply put together smear campaign, with practically no substantiation whatsoever. Personally, I think Karl Rove could do better then that site, in his own muck raking.

I don't like Kerry, I will never like Kerry,

Fair enough, but sheesh

Kerry is a fraud.

Back to more condemnation and venemous statements without any substantiation. Sigh, it's comments like those that come out in your posts that will leave me glad when tomarrow is done with. I won't have to read the BS (hopefully) once the campaigns are done.

And to tell the truth I do get enjoyment out of making "venamous" statements about him. Especially if it makes a supporter of his see some lite as what kind of fraud he is

I figured as much, and tbh with the posts you have made, you have left me at least, with more of an impression concerning yourself, rather then the person you're making all these unsubstantiated criticisms of. I could say more, however I won't. I do wonder if you think you're winning any debates here with such statements as your posts seem to be laden with. But then again, I don't know that even matters to you.

 

[Son Goku]

Where do we go if it’s officially a draw? Or cannot be determined?

It's been awhile, so I'd have to look it up again...but I think it then goes to Congress for a decision.

Edit:

http://www.classbrain.com/artteenst/publish/article_140.shtml

Election of President

This Amendment, (1) which supersedes clause 3 of Sec. 1 of Article II, was adopted so as to make impossible the situation occurring after the election of 1800 in which Jefferson and Burr received tie votes in the electoral college, thus throwing the selection of a President into the House of Representatives, despite the fact that the electors had intended Jefferson to be President and Burr to be Vice- President. (2) The difference between the procedure which it defines and that which was laid down originally is in the provision it makes for a separate designation by the electors of their choices for President and Vice-President, respectively. As a consequence of the disputed election of 1870, Congress has enacted a statute providing that if the vote of a State is not certified by the governor under seal, it shall not be counted unless both Houses of Congress concur.

 

[Johnny]

ROFL, that site looks to be a joke. Quite frankly it looks like a cheaply put together smear campaign, with practically no substantiation whatsoever. Personally, I think Karl Rove could do better then that site, in his own muck raking.



Fair enough, but sheesh



Back to more condemnation and venemous statements without any substantiation. Sigh, it's comments like those that come out in your posts that will leave me glad when tomarrow is done with. I won't have to read the BS (hopefully) once the campaigns are done.



I figured as much, and tbh with the posts you have made, you have left me at least, with more of an impression concerning yourself, rather then the person you're making all these unsubstantiated criticisms of. I could say more, however I won't. I do wonder if you think you're winning any debates here with such statements as your posts seem to be laden with. But then again, I don't know that even matters to you.

It comes to the point as to whether you like the guy or not. If you like him you won't believe anything bad about him and will continue to hate bush. If you don't like him you will believe it. The whole reason people are against bush is because of this Iraq ordeal, they weren't against him on sept 12th 2001 when he said he will get the people responsible were they ??

And sazar you have spoken of a true Kerry supporter, I applaud you

I to will be glad when this is over. All it does is make people hate each other, people all have their own opinions. All it does is cause grief ... Makes me glad I am independant ...

 

[Son Goku]

It comes to the point as to whether you like the guy or not.

In your mind perhaps. But not for all of us.

If you like him you won't believe anything bad about him and will continue to hate bush. If you don't like him you will believe it.

Some of us aren't exactly in favor of either candidate. But that doesn't mean that either a. we feel it necessary to hate someone we don't even know. Perhaps you find enjoyment in hating people, and from there spewing partisan garbage because it gives a certain good feeling. Not everyone in this world, is this way however.

Whatever, but remember the old adtage, what goes around, can come around. One day you might find that it can be just as easy to be at the receiving end of such rumors as well as such dis-like or hatred (your own words), as it is to put them forth...

The whole reason people are against bush is because of this Iraq ordeal, they weren't against him on sept 12th 2001 when he said he will get the people responsible were they ??

You really think you know what people's thinking is? Again, I see claims, opinion stated as fact, but no substantiation whatsoever. I did find it ironic however, when sometime ago I did a search on what the view was wrt Bush on September 10, 2001. Heck make that the first several months of his administration... Oh well, there is absolutely nothing you have presented in your posts thus far, which even makes a compelling argument, whatsoever.

And sazar you have spoken of a true Kerry supporter, I applaud you

Sigh, that's why he's voting for McCain