Bush or Kerry?

Son Goku said:
In your mind perhaps. But not for all of us.



Some of us aren't exactly in favor of either candidate. But that doesn't mean that either a. we feel it necessary to hate someone we don't even know. Perhaps you find enjoyment in hating people, and from there spewing partisan garbage because it gives a certain good feeling. Not everyone in this world, is this way however.

Whatever, but remember the old adtage, what goes around, can come around. One day you might find that it can be just as easy to be at the receiving end of such rumors as well as such dis-like or hatred (your own words), as it is to put them forth...



You really think you know what people's thinking is? Again, I see claims, opinion stated as fact, but no substantiation whatsoever. I did find it ironic however, when sometime ago I did a search on what the view was wrt Bush on September 10, 2001. Heck make that the first several months of his administration... Oh well, there is absolutely nothing you have presented in your posts thus far, which even makes a compelling argument, whatsoever.



Sigh, that's why he's voting for McCain ;)
People hate Bush and don't know him. They only go by his record, people are going by kerry's record as well. People flame bush a lot worse than I flamed kerry, why don't you tell them what you are telling me ?? I bet if I bashed Bush like I did kerry I would be hearing something completely diff ..

I want what is best for my country, and seeing how Kerry was in the past and still is, he is bad for this country. Now I don't agree with everything that bush did. But he did it because he had to, not because he wanted to. People were all for him going after the people who attacked us, then when he does he gets nothing but ridiculed for it. It's funny how someone can say anything they want about one person but can't about another .. It makes me laugh to say the least ...

[edit] This site needs a spell checker. I am typing faster than I am thinking lol ... [/edit]
 
Johnny said:
People hate bush and don't know him.

Some people do, and some people don't. Here's a news flash for ya, disagreeing with his policy, and wanting to see his admin out, is not necessarily hating him, the man. Don't assume that we all think/feel the same way you do, or that we must all hate someone to disagree with matters of policy.

It's not a case of political beliefs or wants. I want what is best for my country, and seeing how Kerry was in the past and still is he is bad for this country.

And yet again, everything you posted is a matter of your beliefs, and your opinions. There are no facts presented in the posts I have replied to. Quite frankly, and after reading the diatribe and the venamous criticisms without any substantiation whatsoever that comes out of your recent posts here, I do not have a very high regard for either your words or your opinion. And there is nothing you have said to change that whatsoever.

Everything you have said amounts to partisan BS. I could suggest you bone up on these subjects, so you might actually have a basis to argue from outside of raw critisism and raw condemnation without any substantiation provided for the claims thrust forth, whatsoever...but I feel as if I would be wasting my time to even suggest. I might also suggest a class in debating, to figure out an effective way to argue a point, but oh well.
 
Johnny said:
The whole reason people are against bush is because of this Iraq ordeal, they weren't against him on sept 12th 2001 when he said he will get the people responsible were they ??
Correct. Nothing wrong with getting those responsible. The problem is when we do a 180 and make a false case to go after what we really want.
Johnny said:
It's funny how someone can say anything they want about one person but can't about another .. It makes me laugh to say the least ...
It helps if you have something to back it up other then name calling. I believe the Bush "bashing" has been based on his lack of whats best for our country, not some crazy propaganda.
 
Son Goku said:
Some people do, and some people don't. Here's a news flash for ya, disagreeing with his policy, and wanting to see his admin out, is not necessarily hating him, the man. Don't assume that we all think/feel the same way you do, or that we must all hate someone to disagree with matters of policy.



And yet again, everything you posted is a matter of your beliefs, and your opinions. There are no facts presented in the posts I have replied to. Quite frankly, and after reading the diatribe and the venamous criticisms without any substantiation whatsoever that comes out of your recent posts here, I do not have a very high regard for either your words or your opinion. And there is nothing you have said to change that whatsoever.

Everything you have said amounts to partisan BS. I could suggest you bone up on these subjects, so you might actually have a basis to argue from outside of raw critisism and raw condemnation without any substantiation provided for the claims thrust forth, whatsoever...but I feel as if I would be wasting my time to even suggest. I might also suggest a class in debating, to figure out an effective way to argue a point, but oh well.
Issues ?? o.k ..

- NRA - kerry is against it.
- Partial Birth Abortions - Kerry is for it.
- Underage abortions without parental concent - Kerry is for it.
- Religion in public. kerry is against it, he agrees with the ACLU in their attempts to have religious media taken off tv and radio. As well as the abolishment of holy holidays. Including having "In God We Trust" removed from the currency.
- Taxes - Kerry is for raising them. If they are raised I will be paying almost 2/3 of my paycheck out in federal taxes.
- Stem Cell Research - Kerry is for it. This supports abortion.
- Same Sex Marriage - Kerry is for it.
- Iraq -Kerry is swayed, first he is for it then he is against it. He, along with Bill Clinton and the UN, told Bush that Iraq had WMD's. Which we know were that lead.
- Un - Kerry is for them to have complete control. This can be a bad thing, if they did have complete control we would still be playing hop skotch with hussein.

These are just a couple right now. It is late and I am tired ..
 
Johnny said:
Issues ?? o.k ..

If you can actually get off the name calling band waggon, that would be an improvement. Though I must say a laundry list, without discussion or links, still a discussion does not make. Some of these items do look like over-simplifications, perhaps based off rhetoric from the right. Others do in the end come down to what a person's own position is, where amonst a nation as large and varied (in the views held) as America you'll find both agreement and disagreement on both sides.

- Religion in public. kerry is against it, he agrees with the ACLU in their attempts to have religious media taken off tv and radio. As well as the abolishment of holy holidays. Including having "In God We Trust" removed from the currency.

This is one such thing, for which the mere statement of which, without links... And even there, the whole argument might be simplified, such as religion in this country. Given he's a Catholic in his own right, I seriously doubt his message is "anti-religious", however it might be painted however. And yet, a line items is still not an argument.

- Taxes - Kerry is for raising them. If they are raised I will be paying almost 2/3 of my paycheck out in federal taxes.

This was a Bush claim, and very much over-simplified. Further looking at Bush's tax cuts, along with government spending, and the national deficit...either taxes really do need to be raised somewhere, federal spending cut, or both.

In fact, looking at your whole list, they're the claims from the right, listed as such. And in case after case, over-simplification can come forth.

Rather then simply listing a bunch of matters which you consider issues...it would be better to pick one or two topics, for people to discuss if they feel inclined. Albeit, given that voting day is here, the time in which people would chose to discuss partisan bickering is soon comming to a close. Try that next time, as it might open the door for intelligent debate, for which other posters might contribute.
 
It's Almost the second.....EVERYBODY that is 18 or older and in the US.....GO VOTE... A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED FOR THIS RIGHT........SLEEP ON IT AND VOTE FOR WHO YOU BELIEVE IN!!!!!! HAPPY VOTING!!!!!!!
 
zeke_mo said:
It's Almost the second.....EVERYBODY that is 18 or older and in the US.....GO VOTE... A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED FOR THIS RIGHT........SLEEP ON IT AND VOTE FOR WHO YOU BELIEVE IN!!!!!! HAPPY VOTING!!!!!!!

Woo woo! No more polls. No more political ads! The nation returns to normal.
 
Unwonted said:
Woo woo! No more polls. No more political ads! The nation returns to normal.

No more mud slinging, and inane statements made on either side of the isle...to sway the voting public through disinformation and deception :D

OK, there might still be some deception and disinformation, but it won't be of the feavored pitch of a campaign. woohoo
 
Football + Election

Claim: The outcome of Washington Redskins home football games has correctly predicted the winner of every U.S. presidential election since 1936.

Status: True

The Washington Redskins have proven to be a time-tested election predictor. In the previous 15 elections, if the Washington Redskins have lost their last home game prior to the election, the incumbent party has lost the White House. When they have won, the incumbent has stayed in power.

Redskins lost yesterday so if going by this then Kerry should win tomorrow. :D
 
And the Red Sox broke "The Bambino's Curse", too. Which went back to 1918. I dunno...

:p
 
Also i changed my socks today and some bloke said "cheese" 4 times in a row and Jam was found on some toast
 
Johnny said:
Issues ?? o.k ..

- NRA - kerry is against it.
- Partial Birth Abortions - Kerry is for it.
- Underage abortions without parental concent - Kerry is for it.
- Religion in public. kerry is against it, he agrees with the ACLU in their attempts to have religious media taken off tv and radio. As well as the abolishment of holy holidays. Including having "In God We Trust" removed from the currency.
- Taxes - Kerry is for raising them. If they are raised I will be paying almost 2/3 of my paycheck out in federal taxes.
- Stem Cell Research - Kerry is for it. This supports abortion.
- Same Sex Marriage - Kerry is for it.
- Iraq -Kerry is swayed, first he is for it then he is against it. He, along with Bill Clinton and the UN, told Bush that Iraq had WMD's. Which we know were that lead.
- Un - Kerry is for them to have complete control. This can be a bad thing, if they did have complete control we would still be playing hop skotch with hussein.

These are just a couple right now. It is late and I am tired ..
Your "reasons" are weak and 1/2 truths. Sorry gotta call it like I see it ... I'm calling bs on the majority of that. :)
 
GO NADER !!! :)

And XIE - All of Kerry's reasons are weak and "NON" truths ... Not to mention everything that comes out of his mouth is "BS".
 
Johnny said:
And XIE - All of Kerry's reasons are weak and "NON" truths ... Not to mention everything that comes out of his mouth is "BS".
Seems only defense is a unfounded offense. Good work. :)
 
I dont know about you guys but I am voting for king kong still
 
Neither, they're as bad as each other but in completely different ways. I'm a Conservative, always have been, but I wouldn't vote Bush nor Michael Howard (UK Conservative leader).
 
I severely dislike Bush. I think he's a disaster economically, a disaster militarily, and a disaster diplomatically. I also hate how he enjoys sparking "culture wars" to fire up his base. "A uniter, not a divider?" He's successfully led over the most divided nation in a long time. I ask myself the question that Reagan asked voters in the 1980 election. "Are you better off over the past four years?" I can answer that with a resounding "no."

All these other "cultural issues" are ridiculous. Abortions? We need to foster a culture that would choose not to have an abortion, regardless of its legality. As it stands, I went to a Catholic high school and I knew of eight women who had abortions. EIGHT. However, the local public school gets snickered at for their rates of teen pregnancies. So, really, who blames these girls for getting abortions? The biggest chuckle I get is the fact that Jesus was conceived by a unwed teen mother (women 2000 years ago got married around the age of 13), so, obviously, there is room for understanding. As a culture, though, we choose to be judgmental....

...which brings me to the issue of "gay marriage." Talk about an issue that affects so little people, and, yet, so many people stick their nose in it! In Belgium, where gay marriage is legal, only 2% of all marriages performed are same-sex. Yes, a big whopping 2%. So if that 2% is happy, why must everyone rain on their parade? I know that in Roman Catholicism, they refuse to recognize all marriages except ones performed by Catholic priests; so, by their standards, I guess that all Protestants and other non-Christians are living in sin. In other words, legal marriage is one thing, but religions have always had full and unfettered discretion to recognize which marriages they want to, irrespective of the law. This will be nothing more than an embarrassing footnote in American history, right next to old laws banning interracial marriages or religious outcries against women's suffrage. As always, religion is contented in being backwards; if they are really interested in "defending marriage" (rather than just using it as a thinly-veiled excuse to be overtly homophobic), then why don't we pass a constitutional amendment to ban divorce?

Religion in public? In southeast Michigan, we have a substantial Arab population (the largest outside the Middle East). In some areas, there are far more Muslims than other religions, and there are even some neighborhoods that go so far as to have all their signs in Arabic. What if the public schools in these regions chose to force everyone to pray to Allah? Or what about primarily Catholic regions? What if they forced everyone to pray the rosary, with its ten "Hail Mary" prayers per decade? Again, though, this is not about "religious freedom"; this is about pandering to evangelical fundamentalist Christians, who believe it is their duty to convert "non-believers" at every opportunity, including preying on public school children, whose parents may believe differently. While everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs, evangelical fundamentalist Christians included, a clear line must be drawn. School is eight hours out of the day, and there is plenty of time left after school to allow for religious expression outside the school. It is that simple.

Taxes? We are waging an expensive war on terrorism, and we are told to make sacrifices...except, of course, the wealthy. Federal taxes primarily affect upper-income earners. How many of you were getting most or all of your federal taxes back in refunds before Bush's tax cuts? Because what people forget is that if the federal government cuts taxes, it must cut services. Thus, they pass the buck to the states, where we, instead, pay more in state taxes. If the states decide it is politically popular to cut taxes, then it is passed onto the local communities. Take a good long look at your local community, folks. For the most part, they are cash strapped and our schools are suffering. We're constantly being bombarded with "property tax" millages, which disproportionately affect the working class. As property values rise, people who have lived 30 years in a home are sometimes forced to sell, because their "potential value" is so high that the taxes become too burdensome. In short, federal tax cuts, by their sheer design, benefit the wealthy. If we're told to sacrifice for the sake of the war on terrorism, then so should the wealthy by paying more taxes to help fund our war effort. For the most part, Kerry has been correct: Bush's tax cuts have been nothing more than a giveaway to the rich, who only get richer.

Guns? Al Qaeda cited America as an excellent place to find dangerous assault weapons, due to our lax weapons laws. Now that the assault weapons ban has expired, an Al Qaeda operative can buy an AK-47 at a gun show without a background check. Common sense gun laws should prevail. Who needs an AK-47, unless you want to kill lots and lots of people? Or body armor piercing exploding bullets? Hunting rifles and handguns have always been available and law abiding citizens have always had access to these legal weapons, regardless of a Democratic or Republican presidency. The NRA just engages in needless fearmongering, and, BTW, if people think that they can amass a "people's army" to overthrow the government, they'll get a rude awakening just like how the U.S. obliterated the Iraqi Republican Guard in Gulf War II here.

Stem cell research? Bush must stop hugging the fence and choose sides. His "middle of the road" stance on keeping research with existing stem cell lines is a failure, and all scientists agree on that. Much of this debate is window dressing, though. Bush's stance only affects federal funding for stem cell research, and many companies and universities have continued with unabated embryonic stem cell research with whole new lines of stem cells. A big question out there, though, is what to do with all these extra in-vitro embryos? We've got thousands of them sitting in cryogenic freezers, and, for the most part, there's zero chance of them ever being brought to term. So should they be fully incinerated or used for stem cell research? It's a question I'll leave up to you, as, in either instance, they will be killed.

Iraq? Iraq is a mess. Despite the absolute best advice and warnings, Bush has ignored what the experts have said and gone on his own "faith-based" approach to war. He uses the memory of 9/11 to finish off a war that was planned well-before 9/11 (PNAC - http://www.newamericancentury.org/ ; a neo-conservative organization that much of the Bush Administration belongs to, including Dick Cheney) and openly lies to convince people that Saddam Hussein was linked to Al Qaeda. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. Under pressure, Bush demanded that UN weapons inspectors reenter Iraq, and then spent the rest of the time undermining the inspectors. It's clear that Bush wasn't interested in diplomacy and our strongest European allies knew this. With all the rotten and unstable autocracies out there, why was Saddam more pressing? It's been a diversion on the war on terror, and I believe that John Kerry would regain the focus necessary to defeat terrorism.

The UN? The UN does have its issues, and Bush was correct in trying to push them further. However, this is a matter of diplomacy. Neither Bush nor Kerry want to give the UN "complete control"; and, unless we want to stretch our own security too thin, we are going to have to start gathering goodwill to create stronger alliances to fight this war on terrorism more effectively. We need a president that can work with and foster confidence within the UN, because, otherwise, we tempt bringing back the draft--or, more realistically, a half-assed exit from Iraq, but spun to look "positive." If Bush is elected, I do expect this to happen following Iraqi elections in early 2005.

Melon
 
tongiht we find out if Bush gets to squander the sanctity of America for another four years.

If this head of state is elected again, we will have asked for more of what he's brought to us the first four

he's already talking about over throwing cuba...he said this to the hispanic base in Florida

this is going to be great
 
How 'bout we just vote for a different "Kerry"...hey, at least the eye candy would be acceptable. :p I could stare at those long legs for HOURS while she gives a speech! :eek: ;)
 

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