Why some people hate Intel

[FishBoy]

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Why everyone hates Intel (part1)
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why did you call it part 1

 

[ShepsCrook]

Ok, I have both an AMD64 3200 939 rig, and an Intel P4 3.4ghrz LGA775 rig. Both are outstanding in performance. The AMD is more for Gaming, and the Intel is more for doing my work (Graphics work, downloading, communications etc.) You see where I'm getting at? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard AMD fan. I've had AMD since back in the K6 era. But I will admit, my Intel rig multitasks like a champ compared to the AMD. I can notice a difference between the 2. I'm not saying I love Intel for that, in fact if it wasn't that I got the parts for this Intel rig at a huge discount (retail employee purchase program), I would have never purchased them in the first place.

 

[mgdodge]

It just so happens my physics class covered this a week or so ago...

Not that it makes a huge difference here, but just a little while ago my physics class was discussing the resistivity of different metals and how that has affected computing. So I have all this info at my fingertips for those who are curious:

Material ----- Resistivity (in ohm-meters)

Silver ----- 1.6e-8 (.000000016)
Copper ----- 1.7e-8
Gold ------- 2.4e-8
Aluminum --- 2.6e-8
Tungsten --- 5.6e-8

And just out of curiosity, those silicon semiconductor portions of the chip:

Silicon ---- 3.4e-8

So we can see here that silver is the best, but it tarnishes. Copper would do better as well, but it tarnishes just as easily (new pennies get real ugly real fast). So the most cost effective chip would have copper pins protected from oxidization. Not only does it have a low resistivity, but it has a higher melting temperature than either gold or silver (1083 Celcius versus gold @ 1038 or silver @ 961), which is well beyond the temps ANY cpu should run at, but interesting never the less.

Now that you are all bored to tears, I will go back to my quiet little corner. I don't come out often, this is like my second post...maybe it's because I can be so blasted boring.

 

[Perris Calderon]

your intel muti tasks better then the 64?

 

[j79zlr]

I don't think the 64 has hyperthreading, so it would make sense that the intel would multitas better.

 

[Perris Calderon]

makes sense j79, but I was thinking "long mode" on amd64 would give access to 64 bit registers, but also more general purpose registers, plus other things that'll help well compiled code.

I would have also thought the benefits to the paged and nonpaged pools. for instance, With 48 TB of virtual address space, limits disappear.

I would think that would help multi taksing...surely data base servers, but I would have thought multi tasking as well

 

[Perris Calderon]

Not that it makes a huge difference here, but just a little while ago my physics class was discussing the resistivity of different metals and how that has affected computing. So I have all this info at my fingertips for those who are curious:

Material ----- Resistivity (in ohm-meters)

Silver ----- 1.6e-8 (.000000016)
Copper ----- 1.7e-8
Gold ------- 2.4e-8
Aluminum --- 2.6e-8
Tungsten --- 5.6e-8

And just out of curiosity, those silicon semiconductor portions of the chip:

Silicon ---- 3.4e-8

So we can see here that silver is the best, but it tarnishes. Copper would do better as well, but it tarnishes just as easily (new pennies get real ugly real fast). So the most cost effective chip would have copper pins protected from oxidization. Not only does it have a low resistivity, but it has a higher melting temperature than either gold or silver (1083 Celcius versus gold @ 1038 or silver @ 961), which is well beyond the temps ANY cpu should run at, but interesting never the less.

Now that you are all bored to tears, I will go back to my quiet little corner. I don't come out often, this is like my second post...maybe it's because I can be so blasted boring.

that is one incredible first post...WELL DONE!!!

and welcome to this great board...please post as often as possible

 

[FishBoy]

your intel muti tasks better then the 64?

I don't think the 64 has hyperthreading, so it would make sense that the intel would multitas better.

yea you guys are right on this one, amd doens't have HT yet, but i wouldn't really call it multi tak, you need more than one processor to multi task, what actually happens is that the cpu switches really fast between the open apps and makes it look like it's multi tasking

 

[ShepsCrook]

True, but it still performs better in that aspect. And the AMD64 might perform better in 64bit mode, but I'm not sure.

 

[Elektro Slime]

if amd does get HT i dont think theyll call it HT.......... i agree intel is probably better for multitasking, content creation and video encoding and decoding......... but for business use or gamming i would say AMD is better, AMD is gud for programming as well , it can compile source code faster.......... im sure in a few years Intel will be head to head with AMD in the performance part.........that said, intel is still considered numero uno, most first timers or home/general users buy Intel cuz they think the higher GHz numbers mean better performance........its whats happening in this country (saudi arabia) AMDs are really scarce expxept for durons.......

 

[Elektro Slime]

hey guys just to let you know that Part2 is up...............

 

[Sazar]

just wanted to say a few things

firstly not everyone hates intel... the company makes some fabulous products and they will continue to make fabulous products... their pentium M lineup is great and their innovations in networking are as impressive...

regarding their desktop cpu's... they are certainly not slouches and handle everything thrown at them well, even if they do get fairly toasty... don't forget AMD once had the same problem...

further... the only company with a TRUE 64 bit solution is Intel... the psuedo-64 bit solutions from them are slowing in coming round than expected and their performance is still up in the air, as is AMD's... but it certainly is no chink in their armor...

in light of some of the arguments and insinuations and discussions... I am going to change the name of this thread to why some people dislike Intel rather than why everyone does

 

[desie]

Im getting an AMD64Bit laptop for my brithday in FEB. I like how the centrino laptops have good battery life though I just want to try the 64Bit stuff . Compile Linux in 64Bit mode yer baby! My current PC is a 1.8GHz Duron and it runs great! Had a Pentium 2 before this and it was ok for it's time .

I read though that the BTX standerd is just to help P4's cool better . I haven't seen BTX for AMD yet, gee. And to anyone reading this, NEVER by a Celeron. They are complete and utter crap! My Dad has a Celeron PC and Laptop, it's alright for him and word but thats it! It's so slow! Get a AMD Semperon (that how you spell it?) if your on a budget.

 

[NetRyder]

I believe the newer Celeron D's are not all that bad, although I can't say I've ever used one of them personally.

 

[Sazar]

celeron D's are basically the older 400fsb p4's... certainly a damn sight better than the old celeron's...

 

[FishBoy]

well i might change my cpu coz it's starting to get on my nerves (amd athlon 64 3200+), i always get those moments where is slows down or freeze, i might get a better 64 or switch to the 3.8 intel... but let's hope i have the money for that

 

[Sazar]

unusual issues you are getting..

I never get slows downs or freezes on my setup and I was the first adopter of the a64 on this board to my knowledge at the beginning of the year...

ensure you have all the correct drivers and have patched your bios properly... might be best to start a new thread on this matter in the hardware section m8...

 

[Son Goku]

Well, IA-64 isn't without it's issues, albeit one of the main documents covering some of these (being an in-order processor for starts, and whether compilers could ever optomize real production code sufficiently enough at compile time for the VLIW or very long instruction set)... DEC (Digital Equpipment Corp) went over this, as well as mention of their looking into VLIW many years prior to Intel; and gave their take in a pdf file which no longer seems available on the net.

The EV8 (if it ever did come out) was planned to be an IA-64 killer as well, DEC mentioning ways to counter the platform... They took some of the ideas for their own Alpha compilers, but argued that some of VLIW is essentially crap, for a real world application.

Keep in mind however, that these companies do tend to one up one another. Lengthening the pipeline, is what Intel did wrt the Pentium 4 vs. the Pentium III. If they can't get the clock increases (heat disipation is prohibitive), they're new core might turn out to be a bit of a liability however. I have seen articles that suggest Intel isn't the only one to be having problems with .09 micron however.

BTW, I have known some people who haven't exactly been all too happy with Intel, but some of it was more business related. I knew some local OEMs. Fred came out to help Carol with her business. He was so disgusted by the time things were finished (and they lost a hell of a lot of money in the OEM business) he decided to go back to Silicon Valley and mfg the chips.

Things ended with (they have mandatory meetings he was telling me for Intel authorized dealers) and the idea is that those integrating their products attend these somewhat regular mandatory meetings. The idea might be sound, but it was Intel's PR people, and not their engineers who were put in a room to speak with all these system builders and engineers, aka "partners".

What would end up happening he said, was someone would mention a problem with a product, and the PR rep would read from the corporate song sheet, and deny there's an issue, or down play the matter. This with other businesses integrating Intel's products into their own. The result would be a room full of angry engineers and what not, that quite frankly didn't want to hear a load of BS from the public relations guy. Time and again, Intel's PR guys would go back and ask Intel's engineers or what not, and "yes it's true..." "But why weren't we told then, before we were sent in that room full of frustrated people?"

By 1999, and after probably about 5 years of this, finally called them and said he wanted out. The meetings are BS, nothing is really accomplished, as the people at Intel in the know aren't put in front of their "partners", and he's had it...

They said he could avoid the meetings if he got Intel certified. Mind you, he was a computer engineer (with a post graduate degree in it) since the 1950s and has had a hell of a lot of experience.

He ended up telling them that they're a bunch of a-holes and it's insulting to suggest he needs certifying from a half arsed company that can't do a danged thing right (OK, not entirely true...they do have some good products) to turn a screw driver. It's an insult to him, and the university he graduated rom. "...You don't understand. I want out. I'm going back to what I was doing. Then I was making money, now we've lost everything we previously made with a $200,000+ salery per year."

He then proceeded to tell them, in very detailed engineering terms, various problems with their products, how they should do things different, why they should, no doubt got down to the very physics of everything he was discussing (what the electron is doing and what not)...and left the phone person be-wildered.

Yes there are some...but in his case for instance, the anger was more wrt their business model, and relations with a "partner" where he felt they got screwed over.

 

[Elektro Slime]

good post Son Goku

BTW i noticed there are not that many stickies around, what we need is more stickied guides and tutorials, anyone wanna write one?

 

[wind3D]

I hear people saying Intel hasnt thought of this, they didn't think about "that"...For example, someone was saying Intel didnt think about anything other than boosting their clockspeed. The truth is, when it comes to Intels CPU engineers, momma aint raise no fool....They know exactly what's going on, and when. They've just got particular goals that they aim to fulfill. To the average consumer, if they had a choice, they'de choose a P4 3.4 over an AMD 2.2 any day of the week...even though that CPU is technically...200Mhz faster? It appears to me, that they are marketing torwards the average consumer now. Probably a good idea. There are certainly a lot more people that have no idea what they're talking about, than there is that do. It may not appear that way, but you see, the internet is an electronic haven for all of us enthusiasts. I am willing to bet that Intel is in the works of reverting it's targeted consumer-base, if not just mixing it up a little, giving everyone a little of what they want. Because it's extremely obvious that AMD is currently in the lead. Intel don't be liking that... The reason AMD is seemingly preferred over Intel, is simple...AMD is more bang for your buck, and AMD is most likely the one you want to be running, regardless of what you're doing.
Cheers