Why is it OK to bash the US?

[the_music_man]

I can't believe most of the votes are for "yes". that disturbs me a lot. there be haters in da house.

 

[kitct]

Seems like hate comes more naturally for some than for others.

 

[Erbmaster]

Whoah just read throught this thread, and wished I hadn't!
So much egocentric hype. Makes me sick.
I won't even get started with this thread, could be here all night lol
IMHO America is a great country, I've visited; and there are some beautiful places.
But OMFG the politics there are screwed!
...i've read something like 25% of the world's pollution is born in the good ol' the USofA
guess that's why they refuse to deal with it...kyoto lol..costs too much...
so they stick their heads in the sand, and hope it goes away lol

I don't dislike the American people - I guess GW Bush isn't a spokesman for the entirity of the country.
Just like I hope the rest of the world don't believe we're all Blairophiles lol -
But I do dislike the American elitist attitude to everything.
All the analogies to being top of the totem pole etc...get over yourselves.
Pride comes before a fall, and if your halfway up yer own backside what you gonna land on?

To quote an American friend of mine (true honest):-
Us Americans make the best hosts in the world, but we are by far the worst visitors.

 

[Geffy]

yeah I think on the world opinion of the US George W Bush has done the US no favours

 

[Sazar]

the US has many good things and the people in general are not bad and mean well...

the problems are with our attitude and our failure to understand cultures and differences in how people do things.. it makes us look aloof and uneducated about issues in many parts of the world... such as in iraq...

the US has routinely conducted covert operations in various parts of the world that it believed were in their best interests (ie favorable oil deals/alliances/government that was not communist/what have you) and the vast majority of these deals have fallen through and come back to bite us in the rear...

case in point... again... Iraq/afghanistan... while we conduct (at least in afghanistan) anti terrorism efforts... we continue to be allied to both saudi arabia and pakistan who are well known for supporting through personnel/intelligence/monetary means or whatever else... terrorist organisations...

america has even in the face of protests of neighbors of neighboring nations as well as members of the UN routinely turned a blind eye and continued its support of nations such as these...

all in all this makes the united states look duplicitous and looking after nothing more than its own interests...

as a nation the US has much to offer... if only our government would do a better job with international relations things would look better... after 9/11... the world was with us... even through afghanistan...

however we have a habit of burning bridges better than any other nation out there it would seem... a special talent indeed...

 

[xsivforce]

Sazar for President!

 

[Perris Calderon]

after 9/11... the world was with us... even through afghanistan...

the current American head of state decided to start a war that the rest of the planet saw was a fabricated concern.

after what became the most pro-American sentiment in the history of the planet

this president with the wisdom of an emu, discarded all the sentiment, and somehow turned America into the most hated nation since Nazi Germany.

this is just un believable

and the American press gives this man a free pass.

 

[kitct]

This thread has truly found a home.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
after 9/11... the world was with us... even through afghanistan...

the current American head of state decided to start a war that the rest of the planet saw was a fabricated concern.

after what became the most pro-American sentiment in the history of the planet

this president with the wisdom of an emu, discarded all the sentiment, and somehow turned America into the most hated nation since Nazi Germany.

this is just un believable

and the American press gives this man a free pass.

he will get re-elected on the basis of patriotic sentiment..

do not disregard the power of a monthly terror alert release with colors that make no sense...

 

[Perris Calderon]

that's what he's counting on, it's why he started this war after all, isn't it

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by dealer
that's what he's counting on, it's why he started this war after all, isn't it

I am sure he had good intentions but the war on iraq seems to be more the work of cheney and chalabi than bush...

I still fail to see what possible reason we could have for continuing to push chalabi as a prime candidate in iraq... he's a flippin exile and the people there show no inclination of liking him... sure he'll be a good puppet... but still... freedom == no puppets...

 

[Perris Calderon]

every one of his advisor's told him his "proof" didn't exist.

testimony from his very own CIA say that they told him the "weapons" did not exist.

his very own scientists said everything he wanted to say were weapons of mass destruction were not.

his very CIA testify that he was told that his "proof" was forged.

his very CIA testifies that he was told that he could not associate Iraq with 9/11, and that if he said he had proof about that, he would be lying.

I don't see how anybody in any kind from any point of view can say that he had good intentions.

his intention was to have a war....and he would do and say and forge whatever was necessary to have it.

his very colon Powell, in an interview says his own presentation at the UN was a "pitch" (a quote)

he goes on to say in the same interview that he knew the physical evidence he brought along, he didn't demonstrate because he knew it was "weak"

good intentions?

hard to see them.

his presidency was failing, the war made him popular again. (in America)

that was the intention of the war, and it worked.

could you imagine what the press would be doing to Clinton if he tried to get away with this?

it worked

 

[Petros]

He couldn't possibly think a tremendously successful war would win a presidency after what happened to Sr. There must be another reason.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by HandyBuddy
He couldn't possibly think a tremendously successful war would win a presidency after what happened to Sr. There must be another reason.

sr lost due to economy issues and the fact that the war was concluded...

bush jr instead will keep the focus with seemingly blockbuster deals such as medicare (which in actuality is gonna kill US when we get to be seniors) and an open-ended war...

btw... the war we fought in iraq was a lot more unilateral than a decade ago... there is a major difference... we fought against an un-organised enemy...

I would not consider this to be a war anyways.. it was a show of might v/s a force that was nothing more than a token resistance...

 

[leedogg]

America does what needs to be done. It may not always be pretty or pleasant and it wont win any popularity contests, but what the hell, nobody else is going to do it, and it isnt going to go away or fix itself no matter how much everybody talks about it. And its ok to hate the US if it gives you a warm fuzzy and lets you appear just and righteous so long as the problem is fixed - people hate cops for much the same reasons. Problems in the world? The US is to blame regardless because of something we did/did not do/should have done, so we might as well fix them anyway.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Leedogg
America does what needs to be done. It may not always be pretty or pleasant and it wont win any popularity contests, but what the hell, nobody else is going to do it, and it isnt going to go away or fix itself no matter how much everybody talks about it. And its ok to hate the US if it gives you a warm fuzzy and lets you appear just and righteous so long as the problem is fixed - people hate cops for much the same reasons. Problems in the world? The US is to blame regardless because of something we did/did not do/should have done, so we might as well fix them anyway.

as I mentioned before... if you look @ our history of interventions when they were not required (other than to serve our own thinking of capitalism as the supreme good in the world and communism being all bad... or oil) we have certainly brought a lot of our troubles upon ourselves...

its become very easy for americans to say people hate us because we do what we have to do and what not...

no offense but thats b.s.

it is true we have a large responsibility but we have put ourselves in that position... if you look back over time many other nations and empires have also had similar calls made on them for assistance and whatever else it may be... it is how we have handled ourselves through those conflicts and beyond that has setup the impression of the US as it is today...

9/11 made a large majority of the world symapthise and overlook many of the perceived faults of this nation... afghanistan and iraq just served to solidify their view of what they thought the US was pre 9/11...

until and unless we ourselves stop and look @ why there are others out there who are not happy with the US for whatever reasons it may be and stop brushing it off as just being jealousy or shruging it off for whatever other reasons it may be... we are not going to understand and rectify the perception of the US...

I mean ffs... we are more disliked in europe than france... thats certainly not a pleasant thing

 

[Petros]

Originally posted by Sazar
no offense but thats b.s.

How rude.

I think America is great. Capitalism is great as well, because it takes negative traits that nearly every human possesses (selfishness and greed), and turns it into a great benefit (invention, business, and jobs). I don't understand why some people who feel that socialism is the ultimate good, because human greed and selfishness are still present, but in a socialist system there is little motivation to be successful. And society collapses under the weight of lazy bums.

You can people who share the same views as I do arrogant and naive all you want, but the fact remains that the world still benefits from the presence of this nation. We share many of our advancements--medical, technological, and military--and the rest of the world is able to put them to good use.

 

[muzikool]

People tend to criticize and point out faults in others that they themselves possess. Perhaps other nations are not so different from the U.S.?

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by HandyBuddy
How rude.

I think America is great. Capitalism is great as well, because it takes a negative trait that nearly every human possesses (selfishness), and turns it into a great benefit (invention, business, and production).

You can call me--and those that share my opinion--arrogant and naive all you want, but the fact remains that the world still benefits from the presence of this nation. We share much our advancements, medical, technological, and military, for the improvement of society as a whole.

I dont think you get the gist of what I am trying to say..

I am not implying the united states does not have a positive influence in many ways on the global economy and in terms of technology and various other aspects..

however I have spent a majority of my life outside the united states and the sentiments of the people outside the US as well as their perception of the US are different than what we see purely because we never witness the US's attitude overseas @ home...

also we are not self-less... no nation is... all nations are always looking out for their own best interests first and foremost... sometimes it backfires but for the most part its the best policy...

as much as the world needs the US... the US needs the world... keep in mind that were it not for foreign governments and their investments in the US... this great nation of ours would not function... our deficit is not supported entirely on IOU's quite a few foreign nations have 'bought' portions of it... just as japan and china...

a quid pro quo demeanor seems appropriate... more so than a fait-accompli/cavalier attitude that we seem to have adopted...

[edit] btw sry if you were offended by the b.s. statement it was not meant to be offensive... it just a general response that I use on this and other forums...

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by muzikool
People tend to criticize and point out faults in others that they themselves possess. Perhaps other nations are not so different from the U.S.?

true...

but @ the same time other nations don't routinely unilaterally brand other nations terrorist or axis of evil or whatever else either... they don't hold the world to one set of human rights rules while completely absolving itself of the same standards... they don't believe their citizens are above the law in any other nation and go to great lengths to ensure this is so while @ the same time making it ever easier for foreign nationals to be prosecuted in the US...

I bring up these points for arguments sake mind...

the us just happens to be so big and powerful and.. for lack of a better word... over-bearing... that its always in the crosshairs of various activists worldwide...