just to start some trouble (*warning*politics)

[Perris Calderon]

too important to allow people to loose interest in this issue before it's resolved, and it's far from resolved

the following article is from the long island press...this is not a fringe paper, this is a mainstream publication in long island new york;

It's the first time in 20 years that the spread between the exit polls and the vote tally in a national election was more than 2 points.


as I say, exit polls can't be wrong, exit polls are never wrong...the article goes on

"As much as we can say in social science that something is impossible," Freeman writes, "it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error."

it is more and more likely that this country is under seige

His conclusions have not been refuted and no credible explanation of how such historically reliable exit polls could have been so wrong this time, leading many to speculate that the vote tally is what's off.

notice how little time the wealthy owned media is giving this story

The Democratic National Committee also finally leapt into action this week, announcing it will fund an independent investigation of fraud allegations in Ohio, while the General Accounting Office has promised to investigate election technology issues relating to the new electronic voting machines.

the article goes on to say that there's a ground swell to try to resolve the issues that look like the election was stolen

the real problem is too few of the wealthy owned media will publicise that there are more votes then voters, that the manufacturers of the faulty machines have strong foundation in the republican party, that the only places the exit polls "happen" to be wrong are the areas where ther is no paper trail

this is very scary stuff...but there is hardly alarm raised

it will be too little too late even if anything is l;earned from said research, we are allready over thrown, and it's not likely any "study" will overturn the treachery that befalls this country

 

[Petros]

Kerry conceded over a month ago. You can, too; it's over now.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I said that long time ago on this very thread...kerry conceded...Bush is the presidcent regardless of what these facts might demonstrate

this isn't aboput who's the president, it's about our governmet being over thrown
'
I'm sorry if this thread makes you uncomfortable unwonted, this is something that no patriot can stand for when we beleive this is what's happened...according to all of this information, it is what'sw happened...I need to see the reasons why nthere are more votes then voters...anyone that doesn't need to see that should be ashamed of themselfs...I need to see why the places where there is no paper trail are the places where the exit polls just happen to defy history...anyone that doesn't need the answers to these questions should be ashamed if they are Americans

maybe thisinformation is wrong...let's hope so, but if it's not wrong, then patriots like myself will continue to fight for this country

 

[Petros]

maybe thisinformation is wrong...let's hope so, but if it's not wrong, then patriots like myself will continue to fight for this country

John Kerry, the majority of his supporters, and I are not patriots then, if by "this country", you mean "fringe conspiracy theory".

 

[Perris Calderon]

kerry is also investigating this...he is a patriot

you however don't care

you draw your own comclusion
I need to see the answers to these obvous flaws in this election

you don't?

I'm supriised

 

[Perris Calderon]

off to bed

as I said, this thread is just to stir some trouble...I know you love this country unwonted...so do I

we'll go about our patriotism in differant fashion

 

[j79zlr]

I always consider those who meet with the enemy during war "patriots" oh I meant "traitors"

Give it up, its over, you lost, fair and square. This country isn't as progressive and secular as the far left wants to believe, and thats why they lost. While the left continues this ridiculous onslaught on Christmas, the Declaration of Independence and anything that has to do with "traditional" beliefs in this country, they will continue to lose. The majority of America doesn't like, and probably even loathes, Michael Moore, and the ACLU, and as long as the Democrats keep aligning themselves with these people/ideologies they will continue to lose. I say keep it up. And make no mistake perris, you are on the far left. There is not a conservative right wing media bias. There isn't, the fact you believe that is laughable.

 

[Xie]

Yeah it's interesting to watch those that want to make sure that an election was actually carried out, instead of just people going threw the motions. No matter who was elected if it wasn't done fairly then what good is the outcome? How can we claim to be the greatest country in the world and not even know for sure we elected our President.

 

[Xie]

I always consider those who meet with the enemy during war "patriots" oh I meant "traitors"

Give it up, its over, you lost, fair and square. This country isn't as progressive and secular as the far left wants to believe, and thats why they lost. While the left continues this ridiculous onslaught on Christmas, the Declaration of Independence and anything that has to do with "traditional" beliefs in this country, they will continue to lose. The majority of America doesn't like, and probably even loathes, Michael Moore, and the ACLU, and as long as the Democrats keep aligning themselves with these people/ideologies they will continue to lose. I say keep it up. And make no mistake perris, you are on the far left. There is not a conservative right wing media bias. There isn't, the fact you believe that is laughable.

What does any of that have to do with a fair election? We are not debating Bush vs. Kerry anymore. We are trying to find out if the election was fair not "who has the better team". It's not a game and if a canidate won that shouldn't have we are in trouble.

I find it interesting that if we indeed had a fair election there is so many questionable things going on. I find it interesting that non-profit groups like blackboxvoting are having a hard time getting information and are being met w/ diception when all they wanna do is audit. Why would countys have such a problem with allowing someone to see the numbers if everything is 100% legit? Shouldn't the audit material of a national election be public record and available to anyone wishing to see it?

This isn't about win or lose ... if the "game" isn't played fair in the first place we have all lost already.

 

[j79zlr]

The election was fair, both sides had lawyers everywhere, especially in the battleground states. Nothing was inappropriate. You can call on the exit polls all you want, but the election basically turned out just like the polls taken that week. Perris and yourself like conspiracy theories, you think that the exit polling groups were trying to discourage Bush voters to go out by releasing fraudulent polling data early? The main thing this election said was, 1) we aren't as progressive as Democrats would like to believe, 2) the media has lost its influence.

 

[Perris Calderon]

The election was fair

how interesting that there are people that want to simply say this is true, without finding out if it's true...how very interesting indeed...I guess you missed the part that the "lawyers" have found serious problems, and there are investigations

"patriots" oh I meant "traitors"

people with statements like this are the very people are the ones that have the nerve to say that people that want to find out why there are more votes then voters are traiters...their reaction to more votes then voters?

"err ubb errr...there were lawyers on both sides"

HEY...THERE ARE MORE VOTES THEN VOTERS...IN THE AREAS THAT THE EXIT POLLS HAPPEN TO BE WRONG!!! figure it out

[news flash=] news flash...more votes then voters wasn't discovered until after the results were final....[/news flash]news flash]

how very interesting that theses people are the ones that want to say that the people that want to find out why the exit polls, (which have never been wron...never) happen to be wrong in the states that have no paper trail are traitors

how very interesting...I guess we each have our own ideas about what a patriot is

the media has lost its influence.

ridiculous to say this...the media has influenced you and most people in this country along their wealthy owned agenda

when I first read that there are precincts where there are more votes then voters, I was incredulous...time and again I said IF this is true alarm should be raised

well, from every single angle that I can find, it IS true...more votes then voters in the precincts that the exit polls happen to be wrong for the first time in history

do the math

personally, I still can't beleive those numbers are true...more votes then voters...in the very precint that the exit polls happen to be wrong for the first time in history

 

[j79zlr]

you make it sound like wealthy=republican, well lemme see, Hollywood, George Soros, John Kerry [the richest candidate in history], Dan Rather I don't think they are republican.

Perris, the next thing you are going to tell me is that Al Franken is a hard core Republican.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I get it...you didn't know the republican party represents the wealthy in America

oh tay then

oh, by the way...where did you find out kerry was the richest candidate in the history of elections?...everyone seems to know this

[point made=] I 'm guessing it was the media [/point made] or did you do that reserch yourself

how many people that say this also say or even know that bush had multiples more campaign money then kerry?

[point made] not too many [/point made]

 

[Electronic Punk]

/me adds [point made] bbcode.

 

[j79zlr]

how many people that say this also say or even know that bush had multiples more campaign money then kerry?

Well if you consider 1.13 a multiple?

George W. Bush (R)
$366,000,000

John Kerry (D)
$322,000,000

What about extensive reporting on Abu Grahib? What about false documents coming about 1 week before the election? What about Oil for Food, I still haven't seen much coverage on that?

The bottom line from the Groseclose-Milyo study is that the political slant of most of the mainstream media is far to the left of the typical member of Congress. Thus, if the political opinions of viewers, listeners, and readers are similar to those of their elected representatives, the political leanings of most of the media are far to the left of those of most of their customers. This mismatch suggests profit opportunities for conservative-oriented, or at least balanced, media outlets. Fox News is probably only the beginning. Maybe the next conservative entrant will be a recreated CBS News.

http://theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/997meijg.asp

Why do you think Fox gets hammered in the predominately left media?

The conclusion of the Groseclose-Milyo study is unambiguous. “Our results show a very significant liberal bias,” they report. Interestingly, they found that the Internet’s Drudge Report and “Special Report” on Fox News were the two outlets closest to the true center of the political spectrum, despite being widely viewed as conservative.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200406230852.asp

 

[Perris Calderon]

What about extensive reporting on Abu Grahib?

extensive?

now you've made my point for me...that was hardly covered at all...even rumsfeld said that we haven't seen anting close to what happened.

how many people know Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Reported even After Abu Ghraib Disclosures?

how many people know that Officials Who Saw Prison Abuse Were Threatened into not making the report

so thanx for making the point for me

What about false documents

so, again you make my point...there you are pointing out false documents as if it wasn't plastered all over the wealthy owned media, when clearly it was... and you say it as if those from fast boat don't exist..even though Bush himself discredited those claims, people like yourself believe the media concerning that...thanx for making my point

What about Oil for Food

what about it? I miss the point...are you saying this is a left wing conspiracy?

ha

http://theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/997meijg.asp
Why do you think Fox gets hammered in the predominately left media?

my gawd!!!!...the weekly standard is your source???...that's a ridiculous link...yet there you are believing this very media when they make the absurd claim that fox and drudge are close to the center...how obsurd can an article get?...again, you make my point

try this link...a little more informative; a simple google search

plenty more to read for you there...you won't though

the media is right winged, wealthy owned and Conservative, and the evidence is abundant and clear.

I like my response to you before concerning this so much, a cut and paste of my own work is in order;

your idea of "liberal media" is any information that casts dispersion on a republican...regardless of how valid...for instance, you actually think the 9/11 commission is some kind of liberal organization...why do you think this?...the media told it to you.


want more? the media convinced you that Clinton was weak on terrorism...is this true? no

as told to you under sworn testimony, even the Bush aids and advisor's tell you Clinton was the strongest in history...stronger on anti terrorism then Reagan, Bush Sr, and clearly stronger then Bush Jr (before the attack that Jr failed to guard against though warned was sure to come)

did the media tell you this?

no

did the media tell you that Reagan is the very founder of the terrorism we are fighting today?

no

did the media tell you that Reagan had the largest tax increase in the history of peace time presidents to that date?

no

did the media tell you that Bush tried to lower pay for military?

no

did the media tell you that this president was told before he made the case for war that his advisor's didn't agree with his interpretation of the "evidence" he used to make his war mongering case?

no

did the media tell you that Bush's own scientists told him before he made the case that those "tubes of mass destruction" couldn't be used for what he was making believe they were used for?

or those "vans of mass destruction"...told before he made the case that they were not involved by the very people that provided the vans in the first place...did the media tell you these things?

no

or that "balsa wood drone of mass destruction"...he was well informed this was a line of sight prop plane ( held together with masking tape )...the kind you give your nephew for Christmas, but the gift you would give your nephew would be better suited then this "drone"

any of that in this "liberal media" of yours?

no

no

and no again

and the story that started this thread...did the media tell you there are more votes then voters in the precincts with no paper trail?

no

or that these are the very precincts that the exit polls just so happen to be wrong?

well?

did they?

no

save for the few sources that manage to make facts known regardless of party, the media is clearly a right winged spin machine

for instance, the media tried to tell you that Clinton embarrassed the presidency...the fact was and remains that Clinton was and remains the most loved and respected president overseas in our history.

the media hasn't been "liberal" since Reagan repealed the fairness doctrine...since that time, it's nothing more then a Republican info-mercial

now that there is no fairness doctrine, the wealthy that own the media can say what they want...where it used to be law, they now have absolutely no obligation to present for you facts that disagree with what they are trying to present.

the evidence is abundant, the evidence is clear...clear to anyone exept those people that actually believe the media when they tell you to look out for that "liberal media"

 

[Perris Calderon]

now, none of that was on topic...back to topic;

I just want to know why there are more votes then voters.

who doesn't want to know the answer to this?... who are you?

I want to find out why the places where there is no paper trail are the very places the exit polls, (which have never ever been wrong before), happen to be wrong in this election

who doesn't want the answer to this question?...who are you?

 

[Petros]

You'd better watch out for Michael Johnson;

He does the broken record better than anybody.

Speaking of records--Linkin Park, Meteora, Track 10.

 

[Xie]

now, none of that was on topic...back to topic;

I just want to know why there are more votes then voters.

who doesn't want to know the answer to this?... who are you?

I want to find out why the places where there is no paper trail are the very places the exit polls, (which have never ever been wrong before), happen to be wrong in this election

who doesn't want the answer to this question?...who are you?

You left out places where completed registration forums were found in the trash. I also would like to know why there is such a move to block any questioning of the #'s for this election. Why did we allow electronic voting machines without paper trails in places we knew would be "battleground states"? If anything you think you would want machines that are proven accurate and make it very easy for auditors.

Why does these keep going back to the canidates? This isn't about the canidates anymore .. this is about the validity of our election(s)!

 

[egghead]

you know in 4 years you will have a new puppet but with the same strings if this voting thing isn't rectified...

usa really needs to sort out this obvious power shift that is not intended by the people for the people