What do u think bout companies moving to other countries?

Ded Morozh said:
I thought the whole "moving to Mexico" thing was over a while ago. NAFTA has been around for over a decade(signed in 1992 by Bush Sr.). And as far as I can tell, it wasn't a bad thing, the economy went up from that point.

It was actually Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA in 1993.


Can one of the Brits here please explain VAT to me?


Also, about buying american. Almost nothing that says made in America is actually made here. If a label is sewn into a shirt in america, it can be labelled as "Made In America"

I highly recommend to anyone that's interested that they pick up the book, "No Logo" by Naomi Klein. It's long, and at points a tough read, but it is well worth it and very relavent now.
 
LeeJend said:
Sigh, nobody studies history (me either, I just lived it).

The loss of jobs overseas has crippled this country from what it was in the 1950's and 1960's. In 1950-60's one parent worked and one stayed home and nurtured the family. You had a new car every 2-3 years (mostly paid for) a home with a mortgage that would be paid off well before you retired, and a lot of people had a vacation cabin or the feasibility of getting one (and time to use them).

Then the manufacturing jobs went overseas.

Now you have a car with a 6 year loan that will never get paid off (car is worn out before loan is). You have to keep refinancing your home mortgage to pay for your new cars so the home is never paid off. Both parents work to service the debt on their loans and they stick their kids in day care centers. No one has a cabin or summer place anymore, unless they are rich, and even the rich don't bother because they have to work 50% more hours than the average guy to stay where they are.

How does loosing those jobs work out ok even if more people are employed now than back then?

A nation can not continue to exist financially by having its citizens sell burgers and insurance to each other.

Japan almost destroyed the USA in the 70's and 80's by stealing our manufacturing jobs. We fought our way back over a 20 year period (of really crappy employment opportunities) through the high tech industry growth. Now China and India are stealing the tech jobs.

Let me warn anyone studying for a tech job now. Don't bother, it will be as useless in 10 years as spending 5 years to become a tool and die maker became in the 70-80's. Probably a lot sooner because now you don't even need to spend 3 years building a factory. Rent an office, run in a T1 line and buy a couple hundred Taiwanese Clone PC's for a few hundred bucks each and run pirated software on them. Instant support center, software design company, etc. Pay your Masters and Phd employess a couple hundred USD a month and with minimal investment and overhead one entrepreneur can steal (200x$60,000=) $12m/year from the USA economy. What a deal! BTW $6 million of that would have been tax revenue to support the $50 Billion a year we are spending to "liberate and pacify" Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't see a real big Chinese or India contribution to stopping terrorism.

If you want USA jobs - B U Y A M E R I C AN! Vote with your wallet.

Any USA tech employee who buys an Intel CPU (brags about creating 20k new jobs all overseas since the end of the recession and none of them in the USA) or a Dell computer (moved all of its consumer tech support over seas to people who barely speak pidgeon english) should be neutered so they can't breed their stupidity. And just for the hell of it send Intel and Dell a letter telling them how you feel. Along with a copy of the sales receipt for your new (non-Dell / non-Intel) PC.


Ok, one more rant.

Out of work? Making peanuts since you got layed off in the recession? No prospects of things getting better?

D O N " T B L A M E B U S H, O R C L I N T O N O R T H E C O N G R E S S.

Blame the bastards running Intel and Dell. The failure of this recovery to spur job creation is not true, the jobs were created. All of them in India and China. At the choice of the Dell's and Intel's we are supporting. Boycott the scum suckers. Tell your friends family, and anyone asking for recommendations here to buy from pro american tech companies.

Since I did live through this same thng before I know no one will heed (or even consider) my words but at least I know I took action by saying and living them. (AMD PC's, Zenith home entertainment center, GM cars, and whatever else I can find with a sticker on them indicating significant USA manufacturing content.)

PS My second choice is Korean (my company makes money selling to them) or Japanese (hey we crushed them twice in one century {WWII and the 12 year recession we helped drive them into}, so cut them a little break).

RIGHT ON!!!!! Thats what i am talkin bout boy!!!!! I hate Intel And Dell they suck so bad. AMD and home built computers all the way.
 
amd does almost all its manufacturing in germany afaik... 2 fabs there (2nd one under construction)
 
I was thinkin...I wouldnt mind as much if companies would still have there places here but also had other places around the world. I know it wouldn't add jobs for us but it is alot better than losing them. I unno where they came from kinda not the best thing i gotta say but o well. I had somethin really good to say when i was takin a shower last night. I usally think of stuff when i am in the shower...dont ask i unno why.
 
VAT is pretty much just sales tax, it is applied to just about everything you buy but is already included in the listed price in just about all shops. It is currently set at 17.5%
 
dreamliner77 said:
It was actually Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA in 1993.


You're right. Bush was one of the people who was there at the start, Clinton kept the ball rolling and signed. Meh, I wasn't sure about it and Google failed me. I guess you can't believe everything you read on the Interweb. That or should do more
 
spare a thought for the Indians. India is one of the poorest countries in the world, and this kind of thing just redstributes wealth so that the world is a more equal place. Also, India has its own problems of terrorism, LeeJend and it is working to eliminate them.
 
And then we move onto Norwich Union for instance, moving a lot of their call centre workers out to india.

Salary for worker working in call centre in Norwich, GB - approx £12,000
Salary for worker working in call centre in Deli, India - approx £3,000

Doesn't affect me, but I know a few people who are going to be made redundant!
 
Dell call centres in Hyderabad pay about Rs.96,000 per year (for beginners) i.e about £ 1175.
 
It's cheaper for companies to manufacture outside of the United States. Supposedly, the cheaper labor is passed on to the U.S. consumer in the form of cheaper retail prices and the CEOs get fatter. In twenty years we will be a hamburger flipp'n, basket weaving society. Europe now leads in technology by the way. I'm building my boat to migrate back to Europe where my relatives orginally came from.
 
dreamliner77 said:
And we bitch about 5% sales tax here in Massachussetts?

we're taxed at 15% here (GST (federal tax) is 7% and PST (provincial tax) is 8%)

and to whoever said Europe is leading in tech, you're right. Also in my opinion, the EU is going to hammer the US in the future
 
thanks thebear for keepin my thread alive...
 
Was a story about this on /. other day .. someone suggested that you find a trade as its impossible to outsource something like that. This seems like a fine idea until everyone in the use is a plumber, ect. I know it will eventually have to balance out but what do all of us in the US do till then ... plumb?
 

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