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Hybrid Drives to Become Vista Premium Logo Requirement

madmatt

Bow Down to the King
Political User
#1
At a discussion of flash memory technologies to be included in Windows Vista and "Longhorn" here at TechEd 2006 this morning, Microsoft's program manager for Windows Client Performance Matt Ayres confirmed that inclusion of hybrid hard drives will be a requirement for mobile systems that carry the Vista Premium logo, beginning in June 2007.

In the Windows Logo Device Program Requirements document, version 3.01, quietly released by Microsoft last Friday, storage requirement #0005, whose description has typically read, "Hybrid disk drives or systems that implement a hybrid disk drive must meet the requirements outlined here," is now followed by this phrase: "This requirement will go into effect for premium mobile systems in June 1 2007."

Source: Neowin
 

lancer

There is no answer!
Political User
#2
I had no idea what a Hybrid drive was, so here is an official MS explanation. Matt i hope you don't mind.

Hybrid Hard Drives with Non-Volatile Flash and Longhorn
Under Microsoft Windows codenamed "Longhorn," the combination of new hardware, drivers, and services will deliver a faster, scalable, and more robust platform. The hybrid disk drive is a new advance in disk drive technology that permits significant power savings, shorter boot and resume times for the operating system, and longer mean time between failures (MTBFs) for the drive.
With the enhanced memory management built into Windows Longhorn, and using the nonvolatile Flash memory cache to buffer writes to the disk drive, the drive spindle can be powered down for long periods of time. In addition, programmatically mapping disk data required for Windows Longhorn boot and resume processes into the nonvolatile cache can make disk data instantly available when the disk drive is powered on, reducing boot and restore times.
Stopping the disk drive spindle saves power and reduces the temperature of the drive and the possibility of shock and impact damage, which improves the reliability of the disk subsystem.
This session demonstrates the power savings and boot path efficiency gained by using a hybrid disk drive with Windows Longhorn.
 

Perris Calderon

Moderator
Staff member
Political User
#3
very interesting

dealer predicted a hybrid hardrive a long time ago, my theory was the os would populate memory from the hardrive as we worked, but the storage would remain on the hardrive incase of electronic failure

pretty close to this, I'm trying to find the thread

[edit]

here it is

dealer said:
here's what would make the most sense, and what I believe will be the next great os...I don't think long horn will be much greater then xp

I believe that in the very near future, the harddrive will be used for the sole purpose of repopulating it's entire contents into a ram disc, to the point where it would also be designed as virtual memory system for those that would need even more of a ram disc then the current technology would be able to provide.

for instance, a 20 gig harddrive will also have a twenty gig ram disc.

the harddrive, on boot, will repopulate the twenty gig ramdisc...but it would also be set up to use it's contents as the virtual (in this case, actual) address for the just incase scenario that ram need exceeds what's iinstalled.

I think this is virtually (a play on words), what xp is trying to accomplish...assign as much ram as possible, and at the same time, have it available for more immediate use (release) when neccessary...(for instance, in the case of compressed files)

xp will write info that is in ram to the pagefile long before it's needed and used, so as to make a hard fault seemless.
back then I didn't understand that there was a finite amount of available address space the os could assign, (4 gigs)

so theorehtically, my idea would only have been good for 4 gigs worth, and that's exactly what xp does already

now with a solid state hardrive I guess the address space is no longer an issue

cool
 

X-Istence

*
Political User
#4
They can already store the data on flash without having power, there are already harddrives out there based solely on flash, which are really fast. Thing is, they are still limited by the fact that they are bulky, and have less GB per inch.
 

X-Istence

*
Political User
#6
I have a one gig flash card for my phone that is no bigger then a fingernail...a hardrive with these in tandem seems to me to be quite small
Sure, but flash cards have limited amounts of read/writes before there is a performance degradation, and or it randomly stars losing bits. Sure they are after a million and one writes, but those barriers still exist.

-- EDIT -- When I finally update my knowledge about solid state --

Technology is improving however, most of my assumptions were based on older technology.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050524-4939.html

Samsung's new 16 GB NAND flash chips. NAND does not have problems with the read/write issue after so many read and writes.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050523_0000123980

However still that there is a size issue, for a 2.5", the max they can fit in is 16 GB of that NAND memory. Sure 16 GB is nice, but with today's high demands of data storage, more is simply required.
 
#7
You also have to think. Windows reads and writes millions of information in probably a day on the HD. If not more. Since it's constantly running files. If you use your computer more, then it will go higher.
 
#8
The hybird drive prototypes were announced about 6 months ago. The flash life issue was addressed. They will have to code Vista to be selective in what gets put on the flash. Drivers, system files that don't change etc. which will speed boot time. These files will a be semi-permanently resident on the flash and backed up on the HD.

Cookies, data files, pagefile all will have to go onto the HD platter.
 

Perris Calderon

Moderator
Staff member
Political User
#9
The hybird drive prototypes were announced about 6 months ago. The flash life issue was addressed. They will have to code Vista to be selective in what gets put on the flash. Drivers, system files that don't change etc. which will speed boot time. These files will a be semi-permanently resident on the flash and backed up on the HD.
for instance exactly as I predicted way back on that thread I linked to up top when I said the next great os would use a hybrid hardrive

*buffs fingernails*

Cookies, data files, pagefile all will have to go onto the HD platter.
and therefore ram when accessed

I would make the data that comes from the flash drive to not be considered in the memory management scheme as far as the standby page pool since the reads will be relatively fast
 
#10
for instance exactly as I predicted way back on that thread I linked to up top when I said the next great os would use a hybrid hardrive

*buffs fingernails*
WOW, a well deserved gloat, 2003 post. Last fall was the first real mention, then some details in March 2006.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/17/hybrid_hard_drives_from_samsung_microsoft/

They talk about some of the risks of hybrid drives.

Now someone needs to explain why Vista can't just do the same using a thumb drive in a USB port instead of us all having to go buy new HD$.

PS Before I get jumped on, that last was a joke. USB is no faster than HD data transfer, though seek time is much better.
 
Last edited:
#11
Now someone needs to explain why Vista can't just do the same using a thumb drive in a USB port instead of us all having to go buy new HD$.

PS Before I get jumped on, that last was a joke. USB is no faster than HD data transfer, though seek time is much better.
ReadyBoost. :)

Windows Vista introduces a new concept in adding memory to a system. Windows ReadyBoost lets users use a removable flash memory device, such as a USB thumb drive, to improve system performance without opening the box. Windows ReadyBoost can improve system performance because it can retrieve data kept on the flash memory more quickly than it can retrieve data kept on the hard disk, decreasing the time you need to wait for your PC to respond. Combined with SuperFetch technology, this can help drive impressive improvements in system responsiveness.

Windows ReadyBoost technology is reliable and provides protection of the data stored on your device. You can remove the memory device at any time without any loss of data or negative impact to the system; however, if you remove the device, your performance returns to the level you experienced without the device. Additionally, data on the removable memory device is encrypted to help prevent inappropriate access to data when the device is removed.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/features/foreveryone/performance.mspx
 
#12
Yes, but that method wouldn't get the logo since it's removable right? What about "Vista Premium" logo machines prior to July 2007? Won't people expect a Premium experience in the machine made in let's say June?
 
#13
There's setbacks to the flash drive method. What if the drive dies, what if it's removed. crucial files could be lost, unless windows doesn't put completely crucial files on there.
 

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