how do new refineries help oil shortage?

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by Perris Calderon, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I can't figure out how building new refineries on old military land will pressure on oil supplies

    the supplies are the supplies, refineries don't add to that number

    so someone explain to me what the president is talking about when he says that putting un regulated refineries on military land will somehow ease the shortage of oil

    am I missing something?
     
  2. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy

    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    Maybe they found Oil there. If not might make the chain shorter, cheaper labor in that area, could be a million economical answers.
     
  3. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    Well if you are to turn oil into gas you need a refinery. I guess Bush is hoping to pull more barrels of oil out of his arse instead of fixing the real problem.
     
  4. Nick

    Nick OSNN Lurker

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    I don't know for sure, but it could be a surpluss of crude oil which needs refining, and more refineries would help this situation.

    It could also be cheaper to import crude oil and refine it rather than importing refined oil, which again would need more refineries.

    I don't know a great lot about the oil industry, those are just some thoughts off the top of my head :)
     
  5. skizo

    skizo OSNN Addict

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    No. Think of crude as concentrated liquid. It is much cheaper to buy it that way and refine it here due to transport costs.


    What they are talking about is simple. We buy barrells of crude oil (unrefined oil). The crude oil needs to be refined here for it to be used as gas, etc. Well, years ago, we shot ourselves in the foot trying to appease all the environmentalists and put limits on the amount of refineries (on public land) that could be operational due to the amount of pollutants that said refineries put into the air and water. What Bush is brainstorming is, putting refineries on gov't land that is not subject to the rules previously stated. Essentially increasing supply and lessening the demand and lowering gas prices.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
  6. Nick

    Nick OSNN Lurker

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    Thats what I said! :p
     
  7. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    all not so...the only problem with oil is the lack of supply

    there is no reason that I can see where unregulated refineries will add to the supply of oil

    from all I can see, this is more of his type of deception where he uses unassociated data to scare Americans into going along with his "give whatever is possible to big business" policy

    for instance, This "easing of risk building nuclear plants"

    what does that mean?

    if it's economically feasible to build a reactor, companies invest...if there's an economic liability, they don't invest...simple

    so what exactly is he saying?

    is he going to make it less of an economic liability to invest in this bussiness?...in other words if the bussiness venture fails, the investors are not responsible?...who will that money come from then?...me?

    more of my money to rich people?

    I already gave them everything I had, including the money my family invested for my retirement...what else do I have for rich people to steal?

    this is really really scary
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
  8. skizo

    skizo OSNN Addict

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?


    Ummm...actually, that is so. That isn't my opinion, that's just basic facts.

    Your are partially right on one point though. Adding refineries will not increase the supply of crude oil, but it will increase the amount of crude that America can refine. There is plenty of crude to go around. The ground isn't "drying up".

    The price of gas has gone up for one reason and one reason only - The Saudi's decided to charge more, period. They are selling a product and can charge whatever the heck they want to. Don't expect gas prices to ever go back to what they were 5 years ago. (.80 cents/gallon here).

    I can't really comment on Bush's statement, "easing of liability to build nuclear plants", as I don't have a frame of reference. Source plz.
     
  9. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    the amount of crude we refine is not an issue...supply is the issue...this is common knowledge...bush is trying to make believe the issue is not supply...rediculous

    refineries will not ease the pressure on supply...supply is our only concern

    also, there is not "plenty of crude to go around"...in fact, the ground is drying up...just how many dinosaurs do you think there were?

    I grant there is plenty in the ground for now, but we can't get it, it's supplied to us

    this is nothing but;

    "let me find a way to give plenty of money to rich people for no good reason, at the cost of the middle class in dollars, and at the expense of our children's health in the environment"
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
  10. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    I think you should check your figures there... .80 cents? I'm assuming you mean 80 cents, but still that equates to around 55-60 pence in the UK... and that was the price per litre of petrol.
     
  11. skizo

    skizo OSNN Addict

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    Wha?
     
  12. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    you said .80 cents as in 0.80 cents!
     
  13. Ohzopants

    Ohzopants My mom thinks I'm cool

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    <sarcasm>Bushs plan to increase oil supply is closely related to his goal of sending another manned mission to the moon.</sarcasm>

    Someone should tell him there's nothing but dust up there.
     
  14. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    My own explination:

    There has not been a new refinery built in the US for about 20-30 years. Quite a few small refineries that were around 20 years ago have been shut down (for instance the Husky Refinery on the Shoshone River just north of Cody Wy. Ect.) Therefore the only new refining capacity available is outside the US and there associated costs of transporting the refined products such as gasoline to the US. A case in point is when the accident happened at the BP refinery east of Houston Tx, the US lost about 5-10% of its domesti ability to refine gasoline. As the demand for gasoline increases this summer the only way to compensate for the lost capacity is to bring refined products from outside the US. Additionally, many of these refinerys (in the Caribeann for instance) have to have the crude oil transported to them in ships and then the refined products are again moved in ships. (IE transportation cost double.) So in short new refinerys would definelty help price as well as cushion against inflation when there was a accident.
     
  15. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    the problem is supply...if someone can show me refineries are at 100% capacity or expected to get there, then I see the point
     
  16. lancer

    lancer There is no answer! Political User Folding Team

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    basically what venom said, the USA is very short of refinaries, the problem actually isn't so much supply but demand, countries can and do supply the us with crude, but the us cannot refine enough quickly enough, and now with the BP refinary in texas blowing up, we have even less. Basically what they do is guestamate how much crude oil america will need for a certain amount of time (opec that is) but they underestimated the growth, (god knows how), so hopefully for refinaries will mean more gas.

    BUT, and i bet most people don't know this, america only gets 25% of its oil from outside of the united states. 75% is produced here. ( i got that tidbit from national geographic)
     
  17. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    there is no way anyone can say the problem isn't supply

    THE PROBLEM IS SUPPLY
     
  18. VenomXt

    VenomXt Blame me for the RAZR's Folding Team

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    no. the problem is supply AND the capability of us to refine it. There can be two problems.
     
  19. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    the problem is not the capability to refine crude...the capability to refine crude will automatically increase when there's a return in expanding...simple

    the price of gas goes up from the price of the supply, it does not go up with the price of refining the supply...the cost of refining crude is configured into the profit margin...the cost used to be about 20%...it can be lower now and still bring huge profits since the price of gas is so high...that cost won't be lowered much at all by increasing refineries...lowering that cost will not give us any relief over the problems we have of supply...supply...that's the only factor...refineries will build facilities when they get a financial return to build facilities...this is too simple

    bush wants to make it free to build a refinery?

    or he wants it to be less expensive then it's supposed to be?


    what's uip with that?

    it's because his friends own refineries, that's what's up with it

    that's all that's going on here

    that's my money going to rich people
    ...that's all that is


    why not make it free to run all bussinesses?

    the only problem with the price of gas is the price of crude...that's it...supply

    how much do you think the cost of refining a gallon adds to the price of a gallon of gas?

    he's planning on spending billions of my dollars in order to lower the price of a gallon of gas by what?

    the price to refine gas needs to be payed by the people that use gas, ...this is accomplished in the free market in a bussiness's profit margin

    what this president is trying to do is get everybody to pay for the cost of running bussiness but big bussiness...his friends and the people that payed all that money to get him re elected don't have to pay rent at all according to this presidents philosophy.

    this is nothing but welfare to his friends, and he is turning this country and our economy into some kind socialism.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2005
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  20. delta4s

    delta4s BLACK HAWK ALOFT

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    Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

    I agree, I am sure Bush gets a lot of benefit building those refineries for his cronies. Its not like they are going to pump out petrol really soon. He just wants it done in his tenure.