Why is it OK to bash the US?

[Geffy]

dont get me wrong, I can see that Saddam was a bad man, I just disagree with the methods employed to remove him

 

[kitct]

X-Istence said:
About the US being the one that gives away the most, they also have the most outstanding debts to other countries who helped them with finance and other things. And look at the money that is needed for the Iraq ****, instead of building new buildings for people to live in, or start up new corporations to employ more people, we are putting a lot of money in Iraq that should have been put into the US. We build power grids over there, and yet we are unable to sustain our own power (NY blackout).

As far as the american govt havin so much debt to others, I believe they also have forgiven the most debt.WW1 and WW2, germany,japan,europe.

And I agree that america should take care of its own peep before pi**in away all its money on others(who will prob always be ungrateful).But we support sooo many good countries and causes that go unreported.(You never hear the good.Only the crap sells papers.)They would prob REALLY be up sh*t creek.Still...if we could jus shake off this political correctness crap and embrace common sense instead.And if americans could stop being so vain and vote for peep based on principles and history and performance instead of "looks pretty"and "sounds nice"we could see some real reform.

Ahh well, I'm dreamin...that'll never happen.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Originally posted by j79zlr

... is all of the opposition to the conflict in Iraq because everyone thinks Saddam Hussein was an angel.

no, it's because bush made believe... he and lied and told stories in order to start a war...he told us in no uncertain terms why we were going to war...no uncertain terms whatsoever

Originally posted by j79zlr
(saddam) He killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. He was almost as evil as Hitler. The US removes a terrible and evil man from power and gets chastized for it, makes sense.

he's not getting chastized for removing saddam...he's getting chastized for lying and forging and forcing his aids and staff to lie and forge.

if saddam was so bad the world wanted him removed, bush could have tried to start his war on the merits of this, and not lie and cheat and forge, and force others to lie and cheat and forge

bush did not remove saddam for the sake of of benevelance...though that's his story now

we supposedly "removed him because he was a dire trhreat to america."

you remember..."weapons of mass destruction"

that was the only reason bush had to get us to agree and let him have his little war.

don't forget, we allready had our hands full in afghanistan...a job still far from done btw

bush was lying, and now that his lies show themselfs, he scrambles for other reasons that he started his little war.

this scrambling seems to be working too...I really am totally amazed that it does, but yet it does.

through all of his lies, he lies again, and he's believed again.

our children die over there.

let's get them home please

 

[Perris Calderon]

you know, here's the thing

if everyone were asked before we actually went to war;

"what would you think of bush if you find out he's lying"?

"what would you think if there really aren't any weapons of mass destruction, and bush knows that there are no weapons of mass destruction?"

you know the answer...if you were asked these questions before the war, you would say bush would get thrown out of office if that came to be so.

but now, the press lets him ride...and Americans who are now too embarrassed, because they feel they are to blame for believing him...now Americans make excuses for this lyer.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Jan
As far as the american govt havin so much debt to others, I believe they also have forgiven the most debt.WW1 and WW2, germany,japan,europe.

And I agree that america should take care of its own peep before pi**in away all its money on others(who will prob always be ungrateful).But we support sooo many good countries and causes that go unreported.(You never hear the good.Only the crap sells papers.)They would prob REALLY be up sh*t creek.Still...if we could jus shake off this political correctness crap and embrace common sense instead.And if americans could stop being so vain and vote for peep based on principles and history and performance instead of "looks pretty"and "sounds nice"we could see some real reform.

Ahh well, I'm dreamin...that'll never happen.

the US has not forgiven the most... at least not w/o strings attached

yes they may have 'forgiven' debts to germany et al but britan for one had to repay the US... and a nice chunk @ that..

where the US 'forgives' debts they gain favorable business deals and contracts to compensate... not exactly benevolant in my book...

to truly give... do something like Japan does... they are indeed the most benevolant nation due to donations (TRUE donations at that) and exchange of ideas and personnel for better understanding..

a lot of the 'good' that we do has its basis in money and what benefit we gain from said transaction...

a good portion of the money you and I are spending and is being provided by the banks of the US is actually in large part due to foreign nations buying up our IOU's that the government brings up through its spending...

btw I agree about the PC thing as well as voting for people who know what they are doing rather than career politicians who have a brain the size of a peanut...

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by j79zlr
Anyway, is all of the opposition to the conflict in Iraq because everyone thinks Saddam Hussein was an angel. He killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. He was almost as evil as Hitler. The US removes a terrible and evil man from power and gets chastized for it, makes sense.

As far as I'm concerned, I say lets just stop all foreign aid, and see who is hated then.

no one has ever doubted saddam should have been removed... it is the manner of the removal and what we are going through now that is the issue... I have not heard many coming forth and saying they regret saddam has gone...

btw when he gassed the kurds... where was our condemnation? why did we not chastise saddam?

btw to remove an evil dictator != people loving the manner it was done... there are international standards and accords that all these nations abide by... incl the US... if everyone were to go round pushing forth regime changes there would be global chaos...

further foreign aid is in part a way to pay back some nations that have been sucked dry due to various reasons... incl the greed of multinational corporations that are generally based in western nations...

foreign aid is a way to reduce the gap between the rich and the poor of the world... a no strings attached policy would be nice but this is not the case with much of the aid that is given round the world unfortunately..

btw... I am all for foreign aid with my tax dollars... I am not for it being wasted pursuing objectives that make no sense to me... but thats just me...

 

[Sazar]

fyi for dealer...

this thread is about the US and why some people/nations don't think so highly of us

perhaps it would be prudent for you to start a thread about why people hate bush... your posts would be more on topic there

 

[Perris Calderon]

u r right in the regard of what this thread is about, however, the u.s. has never been hated more then it is today...this is due to the current head of state and his incmpetant treacherous behavior...no other reason for the depth of hatred we now now must bare.

he's taken the biggest sympathy and regard for this country and turned it into the greatest hatred for her

that's been my point, but yours is well made...I'll keep further bush bashing to other threads

 

[Unleashed]

Although I said I wouldnt partake in this anymore, I just want to say one thing:
Watch "Bowling For Columbine" for the truth behind the Americans.

 

[PseudoKiller]

Originally posted by Unleashed
Although I said I wouldnt partake in this anymore, I just want to say one thing:
Watch "Bowling For Columbine" for the truth behind the Americans.

I have watched BFC and although some of it is true not all of it is. Dont be a victim of the media. Think for yourself and not a sheep of the media.

 

[Maveric169]

Originally posted by Sazar
the US has not forgiven the most... at least not w/o strings attached

yes they may have 'forgiven' debts to germany et al but britan for one had to repay the US... and a nice chunk @ that..

where the US 'forgives' debts they gain favorable business deals and contracts to compensate... not exactly benevolant in my book...

to truly give... do something like Japan does... they are indeed the most benevolant nation due to donations (TRUE donations at that) and exchange of ideas and personnel for better understanding..

a lot of the 'good' that we do has its basis in money and what benefit we gain from said transaction...

a good portion of the money you and I are spending and is being provided by the banks of the US is actually in large part due to foreign nations buying up our IOU's that the government brings up through its spending...

btw I agree about the PC thing as well as voting for people who know what they are doing rather than career politicians who have a brain the size of a peanut...

I have to disagree with this post, I am sure the combined total that other countries owed the US in probley in the trillions of dollars (us dollars even) now if we were to hold these countries wholey responsible for those debts, could they/would they EVER pay that debt off? I doubt it. So the US makes a compromise and says look you owe $100 billion dollars, we will wipe away that debt and ask that we find something (trade agreements, other compensation) that your country can realisticly afford that amounts to pennies on the dollar. Because of this the US gets back through these arrangements what $10 million maybe, even say $100 million, still a far cry from the orignal debt. Do you really think we want to make these "deals"? How do you think the rest of the world would view the US if we refused to make these deals, and just simply said "pay what you owe".

Your usage of Japan as a "giving" nation is a really bad one, considering the human rights violations that Japan practics. Might want to find an alternitive model for that argument.

As far as the "good" we do being money based, well duh, were a capitolistic society. But it is no different than any other country.

 

[X-Istence]

Maveric, it all depends on your standard of human rights.

If i were to have my own country, and i would allow killing somoene cause they stole candy, then there is not really a whole lot another country can do, the poeple can leave if they want, but an other country can not come and drive me out of my country for doing something that is lawfull in my country.

 

[Maveric169]

Going back through all the posts I realized that I have yet to state WHY I posted reply's in this thread, and I felt I should do that.

Here is the problem as I see it that ppl feel it is OK to bash the US.

Over 90% of the posted reason that folks have stated are "valid reasons to bash the US" are hippocitical or once side pointed. Most of the arugments stated apply to every country but are only brought up when the topic is the US. As I have shown on a few occasions. Some are legitimate gripes that the US is solely responsible for and has saddly earned those, but is far the only country that has done some boneheaded things iin its time.

Can the US, it's government, people, agendas, etc. be improved? Ofcouse it can, name a country that can't imporve. (BTW if you can list a perfect country, Please post as I would love to live in a utopian society).

As I have stated before, the US gets condemened reguaredless what it does. Were blamed if we do the deed, or if we don't. Were blamed for having our own best interests in mind, name 1 instance that ANY country has done ANYTHING where it had nothing to gain and only something to lose. Sorry, you can't. It is just not in the human nature to do so. But why is that the US's fault?

My final words for this post are this: "Remember when you point your finger at someone else that you 3 fingers pointing back at you."

Look forward to the rest of this discussion.

 

[Maveric169]

Originally posted by X-Istence
Maveric, it all depends on your standard of human rights.

If i were to have my own country, and i would allow killing somoene cause they stole candy, then there is not really a whole lot another country can do, the poeple can leave if they want, but an other country can not come and drive me out of my country for doing something that is lawfull in my country.

Well the US hasn't over thrown Japan has it? We did nuke the **** out of them, but we haven't over thrown them for human rights violations. I am sure someone will post a bash on the US for that eventually. And there is alot that another country can do about your human rights violations. We can refuse to sell you goods, and prevent our country from buying those goods. Which, if enough countries felt you are wrong and joined that ban, would bankrupt your country. Which would increase your killing of your own people for stealing, which would either leave you with alot of dead people or the people would/should over throw you, or make a case to another country to remove you from power.

 

[Leo154]

ahh politics...

why won't the world just hurry up and implode?

 

[Erbmaster]

Originally posted by Maveric169
Well the US hasn't over thrown Japan has it? We did nuke the **** out of them, but we haven't over thrown them for human rights violations. I am sure someone will post a bash on the US for that eventually. And there is alot that another country can do about your human rights violations. We can refuse to sell you goods, and prevent our country from buying those goods. Which, if enough countries felt you are wrong and joined that ban, would bankrupt your country. Which would increase your killing of your own people for stealing, which would either leave you with alot of dead people or the people would/should over throw you, or make a case to another country to remove you from power.

Hmmm..good idea!.
/me ponders the outcome of a global trade imbargo with the USA.
Oh and as for the Japan thing...that was nearly 60 years ago, and
maybe, just maybe back then the US did commit human-rights offences...i.e. near genocide lol
No bashing ...merely observation.

Oh yeah..Psuedokiller... If you're gonna chastize me for flaming
..at least keep abreast of the thread, so you don't looklike you're not on the ball.
There's been much worse that I wrote both before and since that post.
Consistency is important too

 

[Kr0m]

Originally posted by Maveric169
Well the US hasn't over thrown Japan has it? We did nuke the **** out of them, but we haven't over thrown them for human rights violations. I am sure someone will post a bash on the US for that eventually. And there is alot that another country can do about your human rights violations. We can refuse to sell you goods, and prevent our country from buying those goods. Which, if enough countries felt you are wrong and joined that ban, would bankrupt your country. Which would increase your killing of your own people for stealing, which would either leave you with alot of dead people or the people would/should over throw you, or make a case to another country to remove you from power.

What was in Japan that the US government would have wanted? Nothing. Especially after they nuked em.

Anything the US does now-a-days seems to affect the rest of the world. They should use a little restrant sometimes when messing with other countries, secretly and/or publicly. This may or may not turn out to be another Vietnam type scenario, just on a smaller scale. Only then it started out as guerilla warfare then turned into a technological war, Iraq is the opposite. It started out being technological now it has turned into a guerilla type war. One of the things that is similar to back then is the lies coming from the government. This war in Iraq is certainly not over even though Bush said it was months ago.

The US seems to like to do things on a global scale, so of course they are going to be criticized, especially with the amount of media corporations that exist today.

 

[PseudoKiller]

Originally posted by Erbmaster
Hmmm..good idea!.
/me ponders the outcome of a global trade imbargo with the USA.
Oh and as for the Japan thing...that was nearly 60 years ago, and
maybe, just maybe back then the US did commit human-rights offences...i.e. near genocide lol
No bashing ...merely observation.

Oh yeah..Psuedokiller... If you're gonna chastize me for flaming
..at least keep abreast of the thread, so you don't looklike you're not on the ball.
There's been much worse that I wrote both before and since that post.
Consistency is important too

I would have but I have lost faith in this threads ability to point out anything good or bad.
The only thing I have learned about this world is everyone is arrogant and willing to point fingers. Not much can be done about that but it's amazing how so many can point the flaws of others but how many have lent a helping hand. All the western countries have invaded eastern countries for various reasons ranging from religious to raw materials.
I have read how much the worlds hate the US and its really sad to see all that hate around. I have never heard of a perfect country, society, religion, social status or whatever. Its really sad how everyone can hate so easily yet do nothing about it.
This thread was an open discussion for wether or not it's ok to bash the US. Bash the Bush administration and its poilicies but this thread has degraded to bash everything and everyone who is in the US along with everything the US has ever done. It's so easy to be negative but I guess thats the human nature of things. Last time I checked that should be the most important of things and not the color of your flag or the like.

Erbmaster... I chastized no one. I made you aware of what I saw and if you have a problem with that then maybe we could talk privately. I saw no other flaming by anyone else or if there was it was taken care of by another mod.
This will be my last post here. I have more important things to do than show my hate or distain for a country.

 

[kitct]

Well said PK!

 

[Sazar]

I posted my stuff on the vb3 thinger... can't be arse'd to cut and paste...