ut2k3 vs. doom 3

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by wyrlwyn, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. wyrlwyn

    wyrlwyn Guest

    ok, from a purly technical stand point, not becasue it's supposed to be good... but has anyone noticed that you can do a hell of a lot more with ut2k3 then in doom 3? notice doom 3 still has the 5 year old clipping problem? not so in ut... sure, lighting is cool, unless you don't have a 9700 pro, so, that counts alot of people out of getting more then 20fps... while ut2k3 is fairly scalable.... can anybody help me out, doom3 or ut2k3?
     
  2. Glaanieboy

    Glaanieboy Moderator

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    OMG, please don't do this. Doom III is still ALPHA!!! You can't compare it with any games atm. ALPHA means that the game has been made for one machine only (in this case a P4 2.8 GHz, 1024 RD-RAM 1066, custom build Ati Radeon 9700 Pro) and hasn't been tweaked in any way to work with another pc.
    UT2K3 has been tested on various systems (otherwise it wasn't a final version) to work.
    You can do a poll when at least the (official) demo of Doom III is out.

    You are looking at purely technical things. The clipping problem might have not been looked at, since the game hasn't been finished yet.
     
  3. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    besides the fact that ut2k3 is already released (therefore went gold) and doom III is an alpha... I don't think it is fair to compare since doom III is a SP fps and ut2k3 does not have a single player mode to speak of...

    it would be far better to compare unreal II v/s doom III..

    your comparison is also not fair in the sense that you are pointing out 'technical' details in a product that has yet to be finalised...

    both are dx8-ish games therefore they both have access to the same calls...

    if you ARE to speak about technical points though... I will point out that the coding for ut2k3 is not very efficient...

    far as I know carmack is going out of his way to ensure memory leaks don't occur... like those in ut2k3...

    thats why I think unreal II will be a good product since it utilises the same engine with perhaps a few more efficient shader/lighting calls...

    doom3 is also using bump mapping EVERYWHERE and is not designed to be played @ a break neck speed like ut2k3 therefore you are not going to really notice sub 100 fps probs that l33t players complain about...

    remember also frame rate is highly subjective... I know some lads who think nothing short of 300 frames in quake is sufficient for their skills... :rolleyes:

    I am with glaanieboy and his post... this poll is not fair...
     
  4. Krux

    Krux Nissan Powered

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    my 4600 gets me a nice 40 fps don't need a 9700 to play that game and carmack said there gonna lock the frame rate at 29.(?) whatever movies run at NTSC, I think so it don't matter what you have unless your card can't push 29fps. now with that said doom 3 is way beyond UT2K3 technically. UT2K3 is runing off a what 7 year old engine that they just keep making push more pollys? I like how much faster UT2k3 is but its nothing new its UT with a face lift no new tech no vertex and pixel shader effect nothing "new". You can't really compare gameplay because survival horror is suposed to be slow to scare you how u gonna be scare of a handing dead dude that comes alive when u go past him if u fly by at 800mph prolly why carmack wants to disable running in the game. I'n other words there completely different games and whatever comparison u make is pretty much moot.:eek:
     
  5. Octopus

    Octopus Moderator

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    doom is this and doom is that. you people are advertising for a game that doesn't exsist!
    Doom III is exactly like Aliens VS Predator....scary FPS etc...
    will doom come up with new gameplay? no!
     
  6. Krux

    Krux Nissan Powered

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    Don't playa hate congradulate!! and AVP wasn't scary u pansy!!! :p (that was a joke take it as such)
     
  7. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    AVP was kewl in its own right but no it was not scary... :)

    I did love the different visor modes of the predator though (my character of choice)
     
  8. SPeedY_B

    SPeedY_B I may actually be insane.

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    I think most people prefered the predator. It has the strength of the alien and the weaponry of the marine and then some. :)

    As for Doom/UT im more worried about Unreal II V's Quake 4 ! :p :p
     
  9. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

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    I hate these pointless kind of questions...comparing a fully finished product with one that has months of work left on it.

    "anyone noticed that you can do a hell of a lot more with ut2k3 then in doom 3"

    Like what?

    "notice doom 3 still has the 5 year old clipping problem"

    *sigh* its an alpha.

    "can anybody help me out, doom3 or ut2k3"

    an unanswerable question. Although a bit of advice would be stop posting such ramblings.

    no offense wyrlwyn...... but i cant believe people bother with this kinda nonsense.

    Wait til the games comes out....please!! You're probably gonna be disappointed anyway ;)
     
  10. wyrlwyn

    wyrlwyn Guest

    since id software is supposed to be the master of graphics programming, i would figure that a simple clipping problem would have been fixed a while ago. ut2k3s karma's engine gets rid of this problem by adding a complex physics engine... if you get shot down, your dead body doesn't fall into the wall, it slides down it... sure, realtime lighting is complex, but there is a quake 1 mod that has it, before the doom 3 alpha was released... so, wow, the lighting is pretty, but theres more to it then that, i'm trying to say that, yes it is a demo alpha, but they haven't tryed to fix this problem... sure, its a demo, but, its a seems like theres clipping tutorials all over the net, and john carmack is the "god" of programming games, so, weres the complex physics model? not in the alpha, lets hope for the beta...
    it just annoys me that this seems like a common problem, that only a few games(ut2k3) that have fixed it, and it seems like a simple problem to fix... tell the object to move if it is outside of a bound map, yadayadayada.... i'm not programming genious, but, some one at epic seems to now how to do it, and so far, with id softwares 10 "revolutionary games" i haven't seen it yet, expept from no name modders...
     
  11. Un4gIvEn1

    Un4gIvEn1 Moderator

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    If it's a matter of time, play what is fun. If it's a matter of money, UT2K3 is out and DoomIII is not. The two games are different gameplay. UT is head to head where DoomIII is one player. I enjoy both and will own both. Deathmatch is fun, but Co-op with a friend against the monsters is even better.
     
  12. wyrlwyn

    wyrlwyn Guest

    i guess noone understands the technical aspects of computer games, and i guess no one knows what clipping is either, and if were gona talk about gameplay, doom 3 has none, just like the first doom... extremely linear gameplay, shoot open the next locked door, kill the boss, no tactics besides run away when your out of ammo....
    i guess i was figuring alot more people were into game development then just me... if anyone would like to discuss the particle systems or clipping models of the two, thats what this pole was about, not the alpha demo isn't done yet, the demo for ut2k3 has the physics model that the retail version had, the doom 3 demo does not, and probebly won't by retail day either.
     
  13. Mubbers

    Mubbers Shoot! Political User

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    mmmhh I guess the only way to sort this out would be a head to head DeathMatch

    DoomIII geeks vs UT2K3 dweebs


    let the wars begin!!!!


    Mubbers

    I know who's side I'm on!!!
     
  14. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    alternatively it could be said you have already decided which game you like and that you would not like to really discuss which is better but why doom III will be worse :)

    basically what people are saying is that the alpha does not represent in its entirety what doom III final will be...

    you can't even compare the DEMO of ut2k3 to this because ut2k3 was a far more polished product (and I use that term extremely loosely because we all know ut2k3 is a far from finished product even now)... we ALL know a beta is more advanced along in terms of development than an ALPHA... and that alpha is well over 8 months old...

    if you want a purely technical point of view that is again going to be objective because a lot more people have been able to play ut2k3 final than the doom III alpha hence why many in this thread said that this was an unfair question to start with...

    my initial post did touch upon certain aspects of each game engine and the way they play or are meant to play per press releases et al...

    I reiterate that unless you have first hand knowledge of the doom III game engine and seen it in action in its beta/gold state than it is not a fair comparison... and I would again suggest that if there was a comparison to be made... than it should be between unreal II and doom III because they are both SP games and the visuals of both expected to bring new things to the board...
     
  15. wyrlwyn

    wyrlwyn Guest

    ok, when i started the pole, i did state alpha demo, not final product, but i guess you guys don't wana stop reminding me that its not out yet, i had the ut2k3 demo before the game was released, and the demo was more technically advanced then the demo of doom 3, thats all i'm saying, but, since no one he can understadn that, i quite, oh, and yes, the final release isn't out yet, somehow, i forgot that fact from every post to this forum... i guess no one understands the question... nevermind...
    i was expecting some technical critisism, not this, screw it, if you guys don't understand ****, i won't bother...
     
  16. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    you are perfectly correct wrylwyn in saying what you are saying...

    but you are making a mistake in your reference since your FIRST post :)

    which is what everyone else is telling you...

    an ALPHA is NOT A DEMO... its basically to test the BASICS of the game...

    the DEMO of the ut2k3 that was released was a FAR MORE COMPLETE game than the ALPHA...

    if you know about game development than you would know this and understand where the people who keep saying that doom III is an alpha are coming from...

    to illustrate my point so you will see what others incl myself are saying please look @ this link

    http://www.videogames.com/features/universal/defining_games/p7_01.html

    NOW perhaps you will understand why people are saying that you cannot judge the doom III GOLD version from the ALPHA version...

    here is what a beta is :

    please understand we are not saying that one game is better than the other or so on so forth... just that you cannot compare a finished game or even a demo of a game with the ALPHA of another and expect to get fair critiques...

    if you want to hear people say doom III sucks coz it does not have such and such feature well how do you know? its not finished...

    I hope you understand better now what some of us mean :)

    [edit] also concerning your statements on clipping... well I am sure this will be solved or addressed before the game goes gold :) no one likes straying polygons :cool: [/edit]
     
  17. Teddy

    Teddy Boogie Nights...!

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    "screw it, if you guys don't understand ****, i won't bother... "

    Please. Dont.

    If you're gonna insist on asking utterly pointless questions maybe you should expect a certain amount of criticism. You deserve it.

    "i guess noone understands the technical aspects of computer games, and i guess no one knows what clipping is either"

    Well, we're striving to be as technically gifted as you clearly are but we've got a lot of catching up to do it seems! :D

    I pray i never have to go through the pain of reading another one of your postings. :happy:
     
  18. Mubbers

    Mubbers Shoot! Political User

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    woooaaaahh,

    hey guys, its only a game!

    But really fair point about the clipping. If you think it looks cool to end up half buried in a wall when you die then that's fine. And it is a fair question to ask why ID haven't adressed that issue even at such an early stage as an alpha. They should have moved on from those issues by now.

    The other thing, having read this thread is why the animosity? This always seems to happen with anything graphics related and it's just plain a waste of time.

    wyrlwyn made a fair point and expected a bit of a discussion not a slagging like he got.

    Mubbers
     
  19. Wrathchild

    Wrathchild OSNN Senior Addict

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    .... one cannot hold STOLEN, UNRELEASED code up for serious scrutiny. The game is still being developed. There is/was NO DEMO release, alpha, beta or otherwise. There was a snippet of game code which was duct-taped together to show at E3. Just a "sneak peek" at the look and feel of the new engine. Then some dumb@ss stole it and posted it to the web. It didn't take long for people like the originator of this post to download it and start miss-representing it as a DEMO and offering critiques and comparisons. Let them finish the freakin game first before you start shooting holes in it. Jesus Christ!


    -Wr@th
     
  20. Tristan

    Tristan Guest

    UT2003 sucks compared to the original UT. I think Doom3 will have better things in certain ways. But the big advantage UT2003 has over Doom3 is Multiplayer.