so the owner of bonds ball has a poll

Discussion in 'Entertainment & Sports' started by Perris Calderon, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    ya

    he asks the usual with a twist

    he asks if he should keep it, aution it, give it to the hall of fame

    but here's the twist

    he wants to know if he should brand it with an aristerisk no matter what he does.

    interesting question...what would you guys vote?

    anyway, the poll is up at the cbs radio site if you want to go vote
     
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  2. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    I voted for *
     
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  3. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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  4. Aprox

    Aprox Moderator Political User

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    I voted brand it. To be honest though, I don't really care.
     
  5. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    Put it in the hall of fame, that is where it belongs. No asterisk, no nothing. Until he tests positive, it is all conjecture and speculation.
     
  6. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    He has tested positive. MLB is hiding it because it will ruin the sport.
     
  7. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    Are you kidding, MLB has done nothing if not try to cast a shadow of doubt around BB. They would not be publicly trying to persecute him if they were covering it up.
     
  8. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    I voted for a brand.
     
  9. kcnychief

    kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Political User Folding Team

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    I'm not voting, as J said it's all speculation until he does test positive.

    I'm happy for Barry, both for his accomplishments and how he has handled all the scrutiny the last few years.

    Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty people?
     
  10. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    j79...bonds has been proven to do steroids, he claims he thought it was vitamins...it's not in doubt that he's a juicer

    but the larger issue is important to consider...just about all top tier ball players are juicers...and I don't think there are too many professional baseball players even in the lower tier that have not juiced

    the real problem with bonds is the records he breaks, fans don't want the records broken because of chemicals

    mquire was a juicer also...and so is sosa...and a host of players that have not broken records

    as far as the ball going in the hall of fame, this is the fans' ball it's not baseball's ball, these balls have always been the fans' ball, that's the contract baseball and the players agree...the fans keep them in bussiness, they risk injury when in the stands by the balls and this is their compensation...it's not baseball's ball, it's not bond's ball, it's this fans ball

    if the hall of fame wants to pay or bid fair market for the ball then they should be able to get it by buying it, but surely not get it for free...absolutely no welfare for baseball...they are not some kind of charity organization, they have to pay for it

    whatever this ball is worth, say 1/2 million or whatever, you cannot possibly expect this fan to take that kind of money away from his family...so he should surely not donate the ball unlesss he is a wealthy man, that would be irresponsible...and he surely shouldn't donate it to a thriving money hungry industry like baseball that would be rediculous.

    as far as the asterisk...this is a gray area to me

    it is his ball after all, he earned it and he owns it, the comparison however would be the same thing if I bought the mona lisa, I bought or earned or inherited the painting and it becomes mne

    however I do not believe that gives me the right to destroy or deface the work of art even though I own it and even though I paid for it

    I believe there are social contracts when it comes to hall mark items and I think (but am not sure) that point of view is established law, however I don't know if there is actually written or case law...I haven't researched the issue

    if that's true then the question is;

    "does the ball rise to the same level of importance as a recognized work of art"

    I kind of think so...so I am not so sure this fan actually has the legal right to deface the item even though he does in fact own it

    touchy question...however it would certainly be poetic justice if he did...the problem with that decision is two fold though

    baseball would have a legitimate case to claim ownership of future hallmark balls because of what this fan did and they might win the case if this guy actually does deface the item.

    now another point;

    even assuming bond is not lying when he tells us he didn't know he was juicing...a stretch by any point of view but let's go there anyway

    let's suppose I enter a car race, I put in higher octane fuel then I am allowed..but I claim my mechanic filled the car and I didn't know it was banned fuel

    I go on to win the race

    do I really win the race or when they discover I had banned fuel my record times are erased?

    the answer is my record times are erased

    the problem is, what if everyone in that race also used the same banned fuel..then what?

    who knows

    so this is not a black and white issue and as I say, the only real reason bonds is getting heat is because of the records he is breaking...records that the original holder did not juice

    by the way...this can't be a racial thing since hank aron is also black.

    anyway, this guy is getting as much play out of the ball as possible and he is driving up the value...seems to me like he knows what he is doing
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  11. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    Perris is right. Furthermore, he knew all along those weren't vitamins.
     
  12. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    Hmmmmm, so if it is the Fan's balls, can we get a cross country tour to touch'em as opposed to putting them into the hall of fame. I'm sure there are a lot of baseball fans who would go nuts over the chance to touch record breaking balls.
     
  13. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    You'd go cross county to touch a fan's balls?
     
  14. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    No, send the balls cross country, after all they are our balls, are they not? Why I'd never even make the effort for baseball. Now if it was football, I would leave blood on the grass and everything.:D
     
  15. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Either way, all conjecture until proven guilty. We are going by supposedly sealed testimony? He also didn't break any rules at the time nor has he broken any rules since even though he is probably the most tested player.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2007
  16. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    there is no conhjecture

    that's from the transcript which bonds does not deny, there is no conjecture

    as far as I am concerned there should be a new era for records...then and now and every new record would not be considered breaking the old records
     
  17. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    You mean none of baseball's rules, but there are a lot of federal rules that he broke. Who has overriding precedence? hmmm
     
  18. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Seriously guys, Vick was prosecuted by the Federal Government and it was immediate. Bonds would have and should have been prosecuted already had he broken any laws. There is no evidence to prosecute him therefore he hasn't been prosecuted.

    Perris, there is no evidence what he used were steroids. Again, conjecture. Until someone comes forth and says yes, those substances were indeed performance enhancing drugs, we are left with nothing but allegations. The media went forth and said that the items he used were the clear and the whatever else.

    Listen, I am no big fan of his, but after this many years of being the number 1 target, he has YET to be indicted OR implicated implicitly in anything but the court of public opinion and that too primarily because of his personality. He hasn't openly used drugs like Macgwire, he hasn't lied like Palmero and he hasn't admitted during stupid interviews like Giambi.

    He has passed every test and CONTINUES to put up numbers, HUGE for his age.

    He was a tremendous player before these allegations and continues to be quite serviceable.

    As far as solid players go, Ichiro, Griffey and Jeter are my favs because they are crowd pleasers and make it look easy (like Bonds did when he was younger).
     
  19. gonaads

    gonaads Beware the G-Man Political User Folding Team

    No proof no foul. Geez some people sound like The Patriot around here. There are WOMD! He used steroids! No proof no nothing. This guy Marc is a moron with money. Screw him, the ball belongs in Cooperstown and if they find evidence to prove otherwise then and only them can you whine about anything and Cooperstown can then do as they wish. An asterisk, why because you assume. If you assume it only makes an ass out of you... and you. I am not assuming anything. Let the proof be show. And if not let his talent be praised. So just leave it alone. It's so pathetic how arguements start over things that can not be backed by hard evidence. In other words show links to the smoking gun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2007
  20. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    The record is tainted because of the accusations. MLB is holding back because of how much damage such accusations have already done; e.g. Jason Giambi (admitted to usage and still playing; Bonds admitted, albeit unknowingly, and is still playing). MLB is in defense mode and unlike every major international sport/competition that isn’t afraid to be frank and strip titles (e.g. Landis).

    Granted, it's a sport and there will always be the competitive edge; there always has been.

    Hank Aaron will always have the record, for more reasons than one. He put up his numbers during a pitcher's era and in larger ballparks. And how old was he when he hit his last homerun? Huh? Yeah.