Page File Question

Discussion in 'Windows Desktop Systems' started by Ded Morozh, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. Ded Morozh

    Ded Morozh I don't DISlike you...

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    Just curious, is anyone on the boards running with no page file? If I had a gig of ram I probably would, but even at 512Megs I'm thinking about trying it. I haven't peaked over 300megs used in a long time.
     
  2. yoyo

    yoyo _________________

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    What do you expect to gain? A little bit of harddisk space?
    Some programs will not even start if there isn't a pagefile and you will decrease performance if Windows is forced to remove executable code from memory that you do use, instead of paging out modified pages you don't use at the moment.
     
  3. GoNz0

    GoNz0 NTFS Stoner

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    you cannot turn the page file off, even if you disable it, it will still create and use one, it has to, it's the way the kernal is designed, search the forums m8, theres a lot of threads about paging file size's dealer is the man to ask.
     
  4. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I have managed to disable the page file, even delete it and it didn't come back, but then strange things did start happening especially when the system had been on for a long time. Well I think anyway, either way everytime I do it, ~I always end up bringing the page file back!
     
  5. ignipotentis

    ignipotentis OSNN Addict

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    Some programs will not start without a page file. Adobe Photoshop (at version 5.0-7.0... havent' tried w/ newer versions) will not start without a 500mg page file. Page files are not bad. They are used to free up memory. If something isn't being accessed, it can be swapped to the hard drive. Your processor works the same way. It has a cache. If something isn't being used, it is swapped to main memory. Its just a multi tierd way to keep things moving smoothly.

    Bottom line, Don't Fear The Page File!
     
  6. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    "What do you expect to gain from deleting the pagefile?"

    1). Privacy (whatever you did last is in your pagefile even if you norton erase the actual files)

    2). A little faster startup and shutdown. Your pagefile is checked at start and shutdown and if you request it be wiped at shutdown for security then it has to be erased.

    Should you keep it. Yes. Because you don't want to have to shutdown or loose what you are working on because your RAM got filled. Windows and apps love to waste your RAM. The more you have the more it wastes. It's designed that way.

    How big should it be... We have a heated debate going on in another thread about size.
     
  7. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    Privacy?

    Show me one working program that can read the contents of the pagefile, I've seen older programs that could read the old 9x swap file, but none that actually could read the contents of the NT pagefile.

    If you set a 0 size pagefile, memory will paged in the dll's and other space, you just wont be able to monitor it. Setting a 0 pagefile basically disables swapping but still allows for hidden paging to disk. If you do ever use up all your RAM, then what LeeJend says is true, boom, crash.

    BTW, unused RAM not used RAM is wasted.
     
  8. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    From what I know, you will lose performance if there is no pagefile. Also, graphical apps that require a lot of system resources will indeed need the page file so that there is a back up the temporary data passed on from the RAM.

    One thing that you might like to think about (and this I got from my Networking course in Uni). Would you rather have high utilisation of bandwidth (or memory usage in this case) or low utilisation (low memory usage)?
    By having a low utilisation you are in effect keeping the resources free so that when needed it could be used for other activities. Ever experienced RAM running dangerously low and all your apps take years to budge?
     
  9. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    not exaclty ming

    there's also a standby list, so memory is both loaded with data, and released at the same time...the standby list is one of the best features of the memory manager.

    I didn't respond to this thread because yoyos post is exaclty on point, exactly correct.


    without a pagefile, the exact same amount of data is paged, but when the pagefile isn't there, the os finds other files to page to...there will always be paging files, though they might not be called pagefiles, they are pagefiles never the less

    when nt wants to claim and reclaim memory, it does it, you can't impede the activity...period

    there is no way to reduce the amount of paging in this os, all you can do is impede the paging strategy
     
  10. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    1).
    a non issue for every user...you would also need to eliminate the rest of the files on your hardrive if you think there is a privacy issue with what's inside the pagefile

    in addition, if anyone can get into your pagefile, and then read it, they can get into the real files that are privacy issues.

    I have noticed no change in start speed with or without a pagefile.
    as far as wiping it on shutdown, there is no user that will benefit from wiping the pagefile on shutdown...anyone that can read the pagefile can overcome a simple overwrite of zeros.

    what you mean is the more memory you have, the more memory the os uses (it doesn't "waste" memory when it's usung memory)...it's designed this way becasue it's faster this way...ram sitting around doing nothing is ram that sits around and does nothing...

    and that is a waste...using ram is not a waste
     
  11. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Bah, so really I may as well stay with a rediculous 1.5 gig page file managed by windows?
     
  12. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    ya, that's the best choice for every user

    1.5 only sounds rediculous till you understand that for every bit of memory in use, there has to be at least as much hardrive space available for that data

    some users should raise it, if a user doesn't have a space issue, there is no user that should lower it

    have a read of the file attached
     

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  13. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Neat guide, are you gonna let osnn host a copy ? :)
     
  14. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    it's yours ep...I wrote it for you

    speedy wanted me to clean up the code I messed up and I never got a chance to do it
     
  15. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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  16. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I do remember you starting it.
    Been trying to tidy up the guides on the main page.

    Some of them are damn poor, with just 3 lines... saying go to Microsoft.com, it was pretty much the only section of the site I ever left to "that" admin and its horrible. Ah well, getting thru them, repairing links and images. Then I will prob decide to delete the worst of them!
     
  17. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    use this version...I corrected some typose
     

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  18. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    oops

    I uploaded the wrong one...use this one
     

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  19. Electronic Punk

    Electronic Punk Administrator Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Ok, it's sat on my desktop, I will have a quick run thru it and then get it posted :)
     
  20. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    I spelled bladder wrong somewhere on that page

    I spelled "blatter"

    it's bladder