more of my money goes to rich people

[Perris Calderon]

this just gets better and better

first he took the money my parents and myself saved towards my retirement and gave that to rich people...my retirement has to be with far fewer benefits at a much older age.

NOBODY can sat this is hindsite either, his economic advisors told himlong before he gave my money to rich people middle class woud be paying for the windfall tax giveaway to the wealthy

that was great, let me tell you

and and now this

it's really hard to beleive middle class America actually voted for this corporate puppet...they guess they fell for the wealthy owned media conservative media 24 hour info mercial spin machine for this idiot

I mean he's even buying the questions that this rediculous media asks him...it gets better and better

well, we get what we asked for, we did elect this guy again after all, and everyone told us this would happen too

The bill would disqualify many families from taking advantage of the more generous provisions of the current bankruptcy code that permit them to extinguish their debts for a "fresh start." It would also impose significant new costs on those seeking bankruptcy protection and give lenders and businesses new legal tools for recovering debts.

of course corporate is imune from these new laws

this is where we are today...let's see where we're going next...ohhh baby, I can't wait

 

[Brad]

I hate our government.

Created by the people for the corporations.

 

[Evil Marge]

It's the same the world over no matter who the government is and always will be. :speechless:

 

[ming]

How do you think they gain the support from powerful groups to win elections?

 

[Evil Marge]

Has any government actually not favoured the rich??I can remember long before Labour came into power and the only people who were well off under the Conseratives were the rich

 

[mlakrid]

No one likes when the government takes away the ability to do things like that, but don't make this an Anti-Bush issue as well... this issue has been brewing for YEARS.. if we are gonna blame anyone it should be the $hi+ Head families that chareg up the Credit cards, about every 8 years or so only to claim bankrupcy again. In the long run, it will be good, in the short-term average joes like us will see NO benefit. I am NOT however, going to feel sorry for most people who have to file for bankrupcy here in the states, everyone knows for every 1500 dollars even at a low 10% apr you will pay roughly $10 a month for finanace charges PER $1500 you do that math. We have one of the wealthiest industrial bases in the world and yet we also have the highest credit bases in the world per capita... scary...

 

[mlakrid]

of course corporate is imune from these new laws

As for this little tidbit, I forgot to mention, are they Immune? I dont think so... can you say Kmart, USAir, WorldCom, Enron or Global Crossing? yes it takes BIG companies to get our governments attention, but I would think our time and effort would be better spent complaining about our taxation situation....

I just think it is something we have more of a chance to change to better affect our position in our economy.

Im not totally disagreeing with you, I read back and it seems as though I am, I just think we should all stick together and help change the laws that affect ALL of us...

Tax laws do that... even the RICH... especially if we were to goto a flat tax of 10%... it would make everything SOO much easier...

So?? I want to hear it.. what do you all think?

 

[Brad]

I think the corporations are getting too much in tax breaks. Where is my tax break?

 

[Perris Calderon]

his issue has been brewing for YEARS..

NO, so sorry, this could not have happened if the president weren't a corporate puppet, and people like yourself couldn't possibly think this is a good strategy if the media weren't a republican info mercial

if you're gonna blame anyone it should be the $hi+ Head families that chareg up the Credit cards,

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT, and you are repeating the wealthy owned concervative meida republican spin machine

borrowing institutions are doing just fine, THANK YOU VERY MUCH...the situation you're talking about happen rarely, and that expense is figured into the formula for intereest rates.

in the long run it will be good, in the short-term average joes like us will see NO benefit.

IN THE LONG RUN THIS IS REDICULOUS ECONOMIC POLICY, there is no way this will be good in the long run...this puts MORE pressure on the middle class...the middle class is the engine that drives the american economy...shrink the middle class,which this bill will definately do, and you've damaged American economics.

 

[VenomXt]

i didnt vote for him.. i did my part.. of course no one else in texas did...

 

[mlakrid]

NO, so sorry, this could not have happened if the president weren't a corporate puppet, and people like yourself couldn't possibly think this is a good strategy if the media weren't a republican info mercial
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT, and you are repeating the wealthy owned concervative meida republican spin machine borrowing institutions are doing just fine, THANK YOU VERY MUCH...the situation you're talking about happen rarely, and that expense is figured into the formula for intereest rates.IN THE LONG RUN THIS IS REDICULOUS ECONOMIC POLICY, there is no way this will be good in the long run...this puts MORE pressure on the middle class...the middle class is the engine that drives the american economy...shrink the middle class,which this bill will definately do, and you've damaged American economics.

1) Ok, first, I before you say hes a corporate puppet show me one in the last 4 terms that wasnt. and I dont care which party you pick you wont find one..
2) people like myself? I am the Definition of middle class I work in the IT sector I own a decent sized home, Im an independent, yes I voted Bush, because he was the lesser of 2 evils.
3) before you flame anyone for being republican or wanting to put anything on the republican plate, maybe think that they are trying to look at it objectively.. You on the other hand are on the liberal, democratic, left-wing we are always right.... bandwagon.
4) For the record, not that I need to defend myself to you, I served in the military for 9 years from October 90 to November 1999. I vote for what the country needs not what others say, and I don't speak to topics I know nothing about.. Here is a link so you can do your own research.
http://www.bankruptcyaction.com/USbankstats.htm

companies, banking institutions and corporations have very few bankruptcies because the government watches and tries to regulate them. It also bails them out, how many banks have you had your moeny in? How many have been bailed out? Would you be spewing your Oh-so-Biased views about the government and the right-wing if you had lost your money and the government wasnt involved? Keep your political views to yourself if you are going to flame people, or read and reply normally like a normal person, if you think you still can.

 

[Perris Calderon]

1) OK, first, I before you say hes a corporate puppet show me one in the last 4 terms that wasn't. and I dint care which party you pick you wont find one..
2) people like myself? I am the Definition of middle class I work in the IT sector I own a decent sized home, Im an independent, yes I voted Bush, because he was the lesser of 2 evils.
3) before you flame anyone for being republican or wanting to put anything on the republican plate, maybe think that they are trying to look at it objectively.. You on the other hand are on the liberal, democratic, left-wing we are always right.... bandwagon.
4) For the record, not that I need to defend myself to you, I served in the military for 9 years from October 90 to November 1999. I vote for what the country needs not what others say, and I don't speak to topics I know nothing about.. Here is a link so you can do your own research.
http://www.bankruptcyaction.com/USbankstats.htm

companies, banking institutions and corporations have very few bankruptcies because the government watches and tries to regulate them. It also bails them out, how many banks have you had your moeny in? How many have been bailed out? Would you be spewing your Oh-so-Biased views about the government and the right-wing if you had lost your money and the government wasnt involved? Keep your political views to yourself if you are going to flame people, or read and reply normally like a normal person, if you think you still can.

1) Ok, first, I before you say hes a corporate puppet show me one in the last 4 terms that wasnt. and I dont care which party you pick you wont find one..

a great point you make and I agree with it, however we're talking intervals of magnitude when we compare previous to Bush

there is no question this president is more the puppet then any other, and if you want me to give examples, just list all presidents before him and there's your list

2) people like myself? I am the Definition of middle class I work in the IT sector I own a decent sized home, Im an independent, yes I voted Bush, because he was the lesser of 2 evils.

when I say people like yourself, I mean people that believe the American media...there are domocrats that believe it, independents that believe it, and republicans.

not to say all media is Conservative, obviously there are plenty of liberal media sources,,,but of the media that's most effective in shaping the American point of view, it is right winged, wealthy owned, and an infomercial.

I find plenty of liberals believing media rubbish that promote their point of view as well

3) before you flame anyone for being republican or wanting to put anything on the republican plate, maybe think that they are trying to look at it objectively.. You on the other hand are on the liberal, democratic, left-wing we are always right.... bandwagon.

sorry if it looked like a flame, it was more an emotional response.
I've been both, republican, democratic...I side with the issues that benefit this country, not the party

as far as doing my own research, I do.

 

[Electronic Punk]

3) before you flame anyone

Just saw those words, so will ask nicely that we keep this as a healthy discussion, which is does indeed seem to be. I won't be reading the thread an english politics doesn't interest me (as I have stated so many times), and american politics interests me even less.

Anyway, debating is why the internet exists, maybe. So keep it healthy!
This was a OSNN PSA

 

[ThePatriot]

I was discussing this with my brother in law recently. And just to keep it fair, he was a Kerry supporter, and I voted for Bush.

My view here is, the blame is twofold.

One, people REALLY need to control their spending. LOTS of people get into debt WAAAAY over their head due to reckless spending. I see it on a daily basis.

Two, companies, and credit card companies in particular, make it all too easy for people to get into that situation.

Example: I have one credit card with a VERY small limit that I use for travelling for work. I'm usually not gone for more than a day, so I don't need it very large, and I don't want it very large...keeps things in perspective, and doesn't allow me to get careless. I told the cc company when I applied for it that I only want it set for $xx amount, never to increase, and they agreed. Lo and behold, the first time I used it and my expense check paid it off, the limit rose 10-fold. I called and had them correct it, but wtf.

Many retail outlets will give credit to just about anyone, and in the long run thats hurting the most.

I agree in part with giving corporate America some leeway. If they have the money to spend, the jobs will be there. This coming from your average midlle-class head of houshold, family of four...living in an area where jobs are disappearing rapidly due to lax spending on consumer goods. More and more people are running up credit cards paying off utility bills and buying food than ever. Hey, I don't make a lot of money, and I have a family to support. I have no issue with the Federal tax situation thus far. I benefitted from it up to this point. Whats killing me are some of the local-tax brain farts. Like our local occupational priveledge tax. It WAS $10...this year it's $52. Now, i dont work in the same city as I live...hell, I don't even work in the same county as I live...so, wouldn't that be bordering on taxation without representation? I'm not represented in that locality.

With that said...corporate bigshots making RIDICULOUSLY large salaries needs to be looked at very seriously. Of course, so do your sports heroes and movie stars making the same. Is it morally right that Billy Bob the baseball player is making EIGHT DIGITS A YEAR, while people working the concession stands are living from check to check? I often wonder how some of our "Stars" can wake up in the morning and look in the mirror while their are Americans starving.

No, Americas monetary woes don't simply lie with the current administration...or any recent one...they go wayyy deeper than that. Right into our lack-of-moral fibre. The biggest single RECENT event that can be attributed to our current economical situation is Sept 11, 2001. People were scared, and they weren't spending like they used to. It's starting to come back around a little now, but it will take time. I don't agree 100% with this piece of legislation, but it does hold some merit.

 

[Unleashed]

Democracy doesn't work!
Hell, nothing works. It's a sad part of life, but no single government type can ever work.

 

[Un4gIvEn1]

I voted Bush...

I am not Republican, I am not Democratic. I am just some guy who decided to register to vote for the first time this year so that I could make sure that Bush was placed back in office. I have been old enough to vote in the last 3 elections but chose not to.

As an executive manager of a multi-million dollar company all I have to say is sometimes you have to do what you have to do without regards to the well being of everyone. I have had to fire people who were good at their jobs and just couldn't get along with people. I have had to fire people who were amazing people who just didn't want to show up most of the time. I did that in the interest of the company meaning what would place us in a secure financial situation and allow us to move forward for the majority of our staff. Have you ever sat behind a desk to fire someone who was a good employee, was on time all the time, was an assett to the company... and then got pregnant and called off every other day for nearly a month. Talk about feeling like you did the wrong thing when you have someone crying and begging you to let them stay. Someone who woke up one morning a year ago to her 6 month old daughter lying dead in her crib. Someone who had been an alcoholic and a major drug user until she found stability and comfort and support from our company. Someone who you found out had suicidal tendencies over the past year. How do you tell her? Sometimes you have to do what's right for the majority. Could you make the decisions that Bush made? What would you have done differently? What would the other's have done differently?

I stand behind this man. He stood up for what this great country is all about... "Life, Liberty and the persuit of happiness." Well, if we are in fear of terrorism then you can't really live your life, you can't have liberty and happiness is out the window. The events that transpired were devistating... never the less the proactive approach Bush took has strenthened this nation. Everyone lost their pride. Now, almost everyone flies a flag in one way or another.

I just wanted to take a second to thank all of the soldiers who risk their lives every day to make this nation great. Your service does not go unnoticed. We all love you!

With that said... I stand behind Bush. I do not need to justify why. I believe he is a great leader and I hope that 15 years from now my daughters are reading about him in text books as one of the most influential and great leaders of our great history.

 

[Sazar]

Has any government actually not favoured the rich??I can remember long before Labour came into power and the only people who were well off under the Conseratives were the rich

if robin hood had had a government... he woulda favored the poor...

 

[Un4gIvEn1]

The biggest single RECENT event that can be attributed to our current economical situation is Sept 11, 2001. People were scared, and they weren't spending like they used to. It's starting to come back around a little now, but it will take time. I don't agree 100% with this piece of legislation, but it does hold some merit.

If the Fed didn't drop interest rates and push for spending we would have been in a depression for much longer than we were. Unfortunately this is the downfall.

I work for a Debt Settlement company. I know what this has caused... I see it in the hundreds of clients we accept into our program every day.

 

[Perris Calderon]

there is a price of business....a price of rent, salaries, utilities, liabilities

the price of business is the price of business.

the price of the booming and successfully business of lending money was lobbied by big bussiness to get lowered at the expense of the middle class.

the administration had no problem obliging

the middle class will shrink or won't grow as fast as it would have because of this legislation.

bankruptcy law was an escape hatch for the middle class, now it's a windfall for corporate America at the expense of the middle class.

this is great

 

[mlakrid]

democratic...I side with the issues that benefit this country, not the party as far as doing my own research, I do.

Ok, well thats good to know. Im glad it was just a emotional reponse, rather than an attack, I accept, and hope you will accept my apology as well, it appreas I took it too personally, myself.

What bothers me though, is that you see this as another way for companies to benefit ...they don't. This bill simply makes PEOPLE more responsible for their actions.

Personally, I think that needs to be the case MUCH more in our country.

When society can blame anything and everything to avoid the blame its rediculous.

Perfect example: that moron kid (and his even more assinine lawyer) who are blaming Grand Theft Auto for his killing spree... they are saying he was "conditioned" by the game for an automatic response... I mean come on people its a game... if you don't know right from wrong you dont know... if you do, you do.. he should not even have a trial as far as I am concerned as they have the video of him leaving the police station where he killed the police officer and the 911 dispatcher.

I haven't read ALL of the details of the bill, but for partiallities sake, I DO know they are making it similar to a chapter 11 and that similar to corporations, they have to try and work through debt relief and or settlements, before they claim a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy...

In that way, people couldnt just charge up what they want and wash it all away without repercussions....

I know how SOME (irresponsible) people think about this because the person I rented from when I first arrived in FLA, was in the process of a cahpter 7 and her Credit cards werent even siezed yet, and when she told me, I told her it was none of my business, but if she was going through a bankruptcy why was she still charging up her credit cards; her response: the debt will all go away when the bankruptcy is final anyway...

I was so appauled I almost got sick to my stomach... to know the TV she had just bought (and I was watching) she did so knowing, she wouldnt have to pay a single cent for was sickening....