Manhunt debacle

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by Tuffgong4, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Tuffgong4

    Tuffgong4 The Donger Need Food!!!! Political User

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    I'll start off with posting the link to the news source and then give my take.
    via Joystiq

    I know nintendo and sony have the right to not allow third parties to release games they don't deem fit for their consoles but I'm really getting sick of not having the chance to play what I want to play. Hell I'm not even a fan of manhunt but this is just going too far.

    I really hate to see other people decide what is going to be offensive for me as an adult. I 100% agree that the ESRB is for parents and kids and I think it does a good enough job but that is where parents need to come in and not allow their kids to play games that aren't rated for them. If I want to play an "obscene game" as a 26 year old I should be able to. But I don't even get the chance.

    Release a version that is AO and one that is M or whatever but give me the chance to play what the developers decided to put in the game. We may never have that chance and I'm sick of it.

    What is so hard about carding people who buy games with m or ao ratings? What is so hard about parents just checking to see what their kids are playing or researching what games are out there and what to look for?
    What is so hard about spending a little time with our kids and teaching them the difference between right and wrong?

    Organizations and governments should not be the ones policing what I see and play, and they should not be the ones teaching my kids morals and ethics.

    I'm sick and tired of it.
     
  2. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    I agree with you in many regards.

    But, this game does have very serious implications when considering the high level of immersion involved with the Wii version.

    Think of the level of enjoyment in doing something without consequences even as your parents tell you it is wrong but it's ok because it is in a game. For you and me, no big deal but if I was a little kid? I wouldn't care.

    AO rating SHOULD be the base on this game simply due to the nature of the violence involved. The fact that both Nintendo and Sony have policies in place about AO games leaves Rockstar in a tough spot, but it's their choice to pursue this much graphic detail.

    You reap what you sow. The ratings and parents and kids have less to do with it than the game console makers and their guidelines and Rockstar's publishing a product that is now in violation.

    There is no way the Wii version should pass with an M rating with the way the violence is conducted, no way at all.
     
  3. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    Holla.



    It is lazy parents and stupid politicins who preach that they will make the parents job easier by making sure that their kids ore off doing drugs instead of playing a violent game.


    Just look at the kids **** on youtube or any other site.

    And to say that voilent beheviour is caused by games is bull****, I have a friend who is 80 and he used to steal watermellons and **** from a farmer, and the guy would shoot at them, and he would knock off liquor stores in his souped up Chevy. Hell the police actually bought from him, and he would make runs on a section of I-70 back in the day to check how fast he could run, and most of the cops would tag along to have some fun.



    **** todays people, they are holyroller ****heads.
     
  4. Tuffgong4

    Tuffgong4 The Donger Need Food!!!! Political User

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    I do worry for our kids and the game should get an AO rating but that is what the rating system is for, if a game gets AO that means that kids shouldn't be allowed to buy it and shouldn't be allowed to play it.

    It starts with the stores not selling kids underage and then the parents monitoring their kids.

    But it shouldn't stop me from buying a game I might want to play.

    Lazy parents and grandstanding politicians shouldn't get involved with me playing what I want.

    As for Sony and Nintendo they have every right to do what they are doing but I would at least like a choice.

    I for one HOPE that Manhunt 2 arrives on the Xbox 360 and gets an AO rating and I will buy for mere principle.

    I wonder what rating GTA IV will get, never thought running and shooting hookers was just an M compared to what is in Manhunt.

    But I'm sure Sony will fight to make sure GTA IV is an M or still let it be released because that is a much bigger money maker than Manhunt would ever be.
     
  5. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    i agree with you tuffgong... i've put a comment on the site's article
     
  6. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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    Any enforcement of the ESRB rating system is purely voluntary; I don't feel that the ESRB is going to keep Manhunt out of children's hands any more than "don't drink and drive" posters keep beer out of children's hands.

    And I'm not a really big believer in "slippery slope" theories (except in the case of government control, because they are guaranteed to do whatever gives them the most control every time!). I've been on some slippery slopes (both literally and figuratively), and all it takes is a little caution and adjusting to where you are not to get hurt. If the only thing holding you back from buying a game like Manhunt 2 is flashing an ID to a sixteen year old kid who doesn't really give a crap about his job anyway, you shouldn't be too worried about it.

    Do not get me wrong here. I agree wholly that politicians shouldn't dictate what we can and can't play (or our children for that matter). If a parent relies solely on rickety crutches like the ESRB to teach their kids right and wrong, they have already failed as parents.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  7. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    For some reason I think you guys are not getting the gist of the issue.

    I am totally against censorship for the majority of items out there on the gaming sites. But, there is a difference in releasing a game that simulates mutilation as vividly as this game does on a Wii and the other products out there.

    It should still be released but only with an AO rating. And with an AO rating, neither Sony nor Nintendo will support this game and they are the only market for the game right now.

    Like I said before, this is specifically a case of Manhunt pushing the envelope a little too far and getting bitten in the behind for it.
     
  8. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    I agree with the game being pulled. There is no reason this game should be released. Killing, sawing, etc. is not entertainment. Enough said on my part.
     
  9. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    Depends, if I put Hitler in the game I could definitely use a torch, hacksaw, a few knives, and mebey some lye.


    IN HL2 you graphicly use saw blades as weapons against pseudo human lifeforms. And a crowbar, and multiple forms of projectile weapons.


    Release it with a download to burn once, and have a image file that creates the game on a disc. Only credit card purchases, thereby a parent either has to knowingly buy the game of the person must be over 18.

    If I can get nintendulator files for old Nintendo games they can create a burnable disc for this.
     
  10. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    maybe they should've made it for pc...

    oh, and matt... i understand that you may consider this as "not entertainment", but what's the problem with everybody else playing it?
     
  11. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    This is a tough one.

    Was Rockstar assuming the game would make the M rating? If so, they are more at fault.

    However I don't understand why Sony and Nintendo won't let this game go through for sale with the AO rating.

    Maybe if the game had AO content but was released under a M rating I'd understand Sony and Nintendo's decision, but as it is the game got an accurate rating...so I don't think they should have disallowed the game to be sold.

    I bet MS will try to win some publicity here and accept the game on the 360 with the AO rating.
     
  12. epk

    epk Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    yeah... i would expect it from the N, but sony?... they were pretty liberal 10 years ago (console games speaking)
     
  13. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Really, show me WHERE in HL2 you were able to, essentially, dismember people with realistic motions.

    Actually any game, include SOF2 which probably had the most dismemberment I have seen in a game prior to the discussion of this.

    This specific case is not all about censorship. While I am also against censorship, Take 2 knew exactly what kind of guidelines governed the viability of this product and they are a publically traded company. They can't get sales with an AO rating and this game deserves nothing less.

    Anyone here disagree with an AO rating? Please tell me if you have an issue with this rating. Please let me know what reasoning you have for disagreeing with it.

    Cheers.
     
  14. ray_gillespie

    ray_gillespie Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    The way I see it, make it an 18 certificate (or whatever the US equivalent is). If it's unsuitable for children then so be it, don't let them play it. But why should I be stopped from playing it? If it's crap, then no-one will buy it. If I find it distasteful, I don't have to buy it myself. But if I want to play it, I don't see why, just because a bunch of people find it distasteful, I shouldn't be able to play it. As long as it's nothing illegal, I don't see why sensible adults shouldn't be allowed the chance to buy it.
     
  15. LordOfLA

    LordOfLA Godlike!

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    It's simple. If it goes on sale, children will get their hands on it. In order to prevent that, no-one gets it.

    It's a case if the irresponsible few, spoiling it for the sensible majority.
     
  16. madmatt

    madmatt Bow Down to the King Political User

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    If there was a fool-proof method to keeping it out of the hands of minors then I would say go for it. But video games these days have taken it too far.
     
  17. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    Sony and Nintendo, who are essentially paying some of the costs and are the platforms where Take2 gets their money back, have ratings guidelines.

    If the product does not meet their specifications, they have absolutely no obligation to carry the product.

    If the product is banned solely by the government, I am with you, but this case goes beyond that.
     
  18. SunriseSunset

    SunriseSunset OSNN One Post Wonder

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    I disagree. Yes with the wii controller the way you'll hold it is like firing a gun (sort of), but I don't understand why that makes it worse than aiming with R1 and pressing O.

    I do agree that even if your parents say no, you'll probably do it anyway e.g. watching the Jerry Springer show when my sister and I were younger.

    I think the ban is extreme. Would I play Manhunt? No. Have I played other violent games? Yes e.g. Scarface, GTA, but this one seems to be in a league of it's own. Does that mean I would stop others playing it? No way.

    I'm just fed up with people saying these games make violent people. I swear I saw ages ago an article saying that people who play violent games are less violent in reality because they have a release outlet. Besides, if someone plays manhunt and goes out to kill someone, then they would've done that anyway. People were killing way before the playstation came into existence.
     
  19. Sazar

    Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    The wii controller is used for sawing/hacking motions, represented visually on the screen.

    I don't care about the shooting part.

    No other game out there has this much graphic interaction for something of this nature.

    I don't think the game should be banned, I do think it deserves the AO rating. There is a difference :)
     
  20. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    The idea that people have a "closed" emotional system that needs periodic emptying is false. Venting/doing violent things will actually make you angrier.

    As for videogames making you more violent... there have been studies that show that playing a violent videogame will make you more aggressive that you would be if you didn't play a videogame for a short period. However, this was a moderate increase in aggressive behavior (ie nothing good parenting can't negate).

    So people won't become serial killers just because they play games, but we can't deny that videogames do indeed increase aggressiveness.