Got hacked, you could get sued!

Discussion in 'Windows Desktop Systems' started by Lee, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy

    Got hacked, you could get sued!

    That's right people, according to an article at vnunet news blog.

    Home computer users could be sued if they allow their computers to be taken over and used by hackers, legal representatives speaking at the RSAConference in San Francisco have claimed.

    A panel looking at the usefulness of insurance against cyber-crime discussed the likelihood of home users being sued if their computers were used to perform distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks.

    Read more
     
  2. lancer

    lancer There is no answer! Political User Folding Team

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    motherøøøøers, i'd like to see them try.

    Thats like running over a child and sueing the parents for a broken windsheild.... which has in facted happened in england and the usa.
     
  3. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    hmm... you get sued for being hacked?! Even if you put up a reasonable amount of defence to safeguard your machine?
     
  4. Mastershakes

    Mastershakes Moderator

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    I envision a new conglamerate: Law Firm / Tech Security Company....

    Hire dudes to hack machines, and sic the law firm on em. ;)
     
  5. Xie

    Xie - geek - Subscribed User Folding Team

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    Yeah I wonder what the limits are. The person that makes no attempt to secure their box I can see (similiar to leaving a loaded gun out for all to play with), but if you DO try and protect your box I'm not sure you should be responsible.
     
  6. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    There is beauty in here. The "reasonable precautions" concept will protect you under the law. If you leave the keys in your car and it is stolen and kills someone you are liable. If you take the keys you are not liable.

    The beauty of this is:
    If I installed all the MS updates and SP2 but got hacked anyway. Using the tools provided by the "largest software manufacturer in the world" is taking reasonable precautions.

    Soooo. If you got sued after being hacked with SP2, and the latest updates, both the victims and YOU could then sue microsoft for negligence. Wow, what a glorious can of worms. Get hacked and sue microsoft. I like it.
     
  7. Weasel

    Weasel Define 'Cynical'

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    My server was hacked, can I sue the FreeBSD team or Sonicwall for not providing protection against hackers? Oh! And PHP for having security holes. This is getting out of control.
     
  8. Petros

    Petros Thief IV

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    Nobody ever thinks to go after the perpetrators anymore. People want compensation, and they don't care who they get it from. Courts and lawyers are corrupt these days.
     
  9. Shamus MacNoob

    Shamus MacNoob Moderator Political User

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    What you mean your not microsoft stuff is not perfect what a damn shame all this time all we hear is how great all the linux and open source stuff is well god damn it sue them as well

    hell sue anyone you can !!!!!!



    lolol
     
  10. Johnny

    Johnny .. Commodore .. Political User

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    This thread reminds me of the "Married With Children" episode where Al gets sued by a guy who broke into his house, for beating him up .... You can "try" and sue anyone these days. Most of the lawyers won't take your case unless they know they have a shot of winning though, expecially the ones who say "No Fee Unless We Get Money For You" ... I'm starting to sound like Edgar Snyder lol ..
     
  11. so can we sue them for sueing us?? i mean if they're sueing us for a stupid reason then why not sue for another stupid reason :D
     
  12. Weasel

    Weasel Define 'Cynical'

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    :laugh: Good reply, man. :) And MS + remote admin = bleh.
     
  13. Lee

    Lee OSNN Proxy

    Well this is reality in the U.K., someone breaks into your house you touch them, you get sued.

    They did slightly change the law recently, called, 'reasonable force', wtf is reasonable force, a slap?

    I think this is all some kind of hype to boost firewall software.
     
  14. ming

    ming OSNN Advanced

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    Sorry, slight correction there - they did NOT change the law at all. They just made it clear what you can and cannot do.

    You can retaliate if you feel your life is being threatened. So, if a thief runs up the stairs chasing you, you can turn around and boot him down the stairs and not get sued. lol :p
     
  15. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    Fishboy

    You can sue someone for sueing you and win if their lawsuit is deemed frivolous.

    You can also sue someone for wrongful prosecution (including the cops). They accuse you of breaking into their car and stealing their CD's and it was the other weird kid on the block.

    Isn't the law wonderful. Only in the legal profession can you make a system where the failings of the product (the stupid laws on the books) make you rich.

    If you do it in manufacturing nobody buys your product (GM/Ford/Chrysler tried it in the 70's and the Nissan and Toyota cleaned their clocks).

    If you do it in software alternatives take over market share (Microsoft and Linux, low sales on mediocre sequels, etc).

    If you do it in entertainment people pirate your music (P2P the one good song instead of buying 10 extra crappy ones on a CD. They used to sell songs as singles when i was a kid. Oh, hey, they started again because of P2P).

    If you try an alternate solution in the legal system they call you a vigilante and throw your ass in jail.

    WHAT A SYSTEM! You have to love it.
     
  16. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    I think that this is all a load of bull***t. Intent has to be proved here i.e. you must have known that your machine is being used as a zombie, and by definition this must also be a provable element in court. It’s just not good enough for the complainant to say (for instance) that you have been negligent for not installing the correct spyware or virus protection software as these are ever moving targets.

    Any brief worth his salt would defeat these arguments in seconds that is, in the western hemisphere where laws are relatively simple to both conduct and to remedy.

    Elsewhere things are not that equal. There must be sooner or later a legal position that can be implemented across the planet in relation to the Internet or nothing will ever happen in this respect.

    :) :) :)
     
  17. LeeJend

    LeeJend Moderator

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    No it is not Bull. It is on the statutes all over the USA. Google "Contributory negligence".

    People have been sued and lost for:
    -leaving keys in car and having it stolen and killing someone
    -burglar falling through skylight and being injured
    -idiot being burned by spilled coffee and suing McDonlads for making too hot coffee
    -leaving loaded guns accessible and having a neighbor kid shoot himself
    were the most pulicized stories (newspaper and radio, not just web) the list is endless.
     
  18. dave holbon

    dave holbon Moderator

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    The cases you quote fall mostly under the negligence banner. If I use you computer to steal $100k from whatever bank (even yours) without your knowledge, have you been negligent? Whilst I am certainly guilty of theft the evidence might point to you only on grounds of negligence, is it reasonable to use the Internet without taking simple precautions? I think not, so you may be right but then the level of expertise of the user would have to be taken into account, this is a diminishing returns scenario with the easiest computers to “hack” being used by the people with the least knowledge and hence the best defence. At this time no such case that I know of has successfully been proved in court. Added to this is the “security holes” in the operating systems concerned. Is the provider of such systems culpable? Well the answer is that this is untested as we are here talking about some of the most powerful corporations on the planet with their own expert legal departments dealing in millions of dollars a year.

    Until this responsibility can be “pinned down” or apportioned somehow, nothing will happen as there is just not enough evidence. We will all pay for it as the case at the moment.


    :) :) :rolleyes:
     
  19. j79zlr

    j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Political User

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    Hopefully this is just a way to scare users into updating and making sure their machines are clean. 99% of spyware/adware/malware/trojans/viruses are the users fault one way or the other be it not having updates or installing unknown "free" software.