Sazar
Rest In Peace
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- 12 Apr 2002
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Since so many people are buying and installing the new AMD Athlon64 based systems into their rigs I thought it might be prudent to have a little write-up to make people's lives easier
This is not the be-all end-all of guides, people who have other suggestions/quips please add on to this thread so we can collectively help others getting these systems. Also keep in mind for the most part I refer to athlon64's and athlon FX's as athlon64's cept in the Processor section.
Disclaimer this thread has nothing to do with the general p4 v/s athlon64 debate... please keep that in mind before posting in this thread. That is not my intention and if you are intent on dragging the thread in that direction please consider making a new/separate thread for this purpose if you must.
To make life easier for everyone I will also include a running cost total to allow you to decide what sort of system to go for (the costs are not the bare minimum but close approximations to allow for cost variations, I am not responsible for fluctuations from the time of the writing of this till when you purchase your system)
Power Supply Unit
The P.S.U. is the primary component to keep in mind BEFORE you purchase your motherboard and cpu. This is doubly important if you have a new video card purchase coming up or already have one.
you must have a minimum of 18A on the 12V rail per AMD's specs. With a good enough P.S.U. you might get away with having lower specs. My P.S.U. gives my 27A on the 12V rail. My old P.S.U. was an antec 400W SL unit and gave me 18A on the 12V rail and I had no problems with it.
Some SFF units have no problems running an athlon64 setup with a lower spec'd P.S.U. but again this probably has more to do with the build quality of the device.
A good P.S.U. can run you over $60. upto around $150 for a really good one.
Chipset
There are multiple chipset available for the athlon64 platform. In this small write-up I will be concentrating on chipsets available for sockets 754 and 939 only.
Socket 754
For socket 754 you have the via based k8t800 and k8t800pro and derivatives, nvidia based NF3-150 and 250 and derivatives, SiS's chipset comprising at least of the 755 model and ALi's chipset comprising at least of the M1687.
I have not personally dealt with or seen many sales of the latter 2. Given this fact as well as the fact that I know more about the other 2 chipsets I will concentrate primarily on the via and nvidia solutions.
The nf3-250 and via k8t800pro versions are supposedly available with pci/agp locks and therefore are better solutions for overclockers who wish to push their athlon64 cpu's to their limits. Keep in mind that some versions of the boards have been reported as having floating locks (primarily the cheaper nf3-250's and k8t800pro's).
In my personal opinion I would consider the nf3-250 higher-end derivatives (with GbE) first and foremost before the others. I personally have a k8t800 board and have not had any problems with it. Raw performance is satisfactory and it overclocks well, though not having a pci/agp lock I have no pushed the fsb much above 210mhz for an extended period of time.
I would not recommend the nf3-150 simply due to the fact that it only has an 8-bit upstream HyperTransport bus (HTT) (and speed of 600mhz) instead of full 16bit (800mhz) bus. Overall there will be minor performance losses in many areas but I just don't see a reason to buy this board when the nf3-250, k8t800 and k8t800pro boards have full speed upstream/downstream HTT bus's.
The price for a decent nf3-250/k8t800/k8t800pro board will start around $85 but it might be an idea to shell out a little more for a better board. Consider a budget of between $100-$130
Any of the big boys will be a good purchase.
Socket 939
Unfortunately thus far there are only 2 chipsets and 3 boards out there for sckt 939 in retail. 2 of them are Via chipsets (k8t800pro) and one is based off Nvidia's nf3-250 chipset.
Based on reviews and the experiences of the people on the board I think it is only prudent to recommend the Asus A8V board and the Gigabyte K8N boards. The Abit AV8 board apparently still has problems.
Cost for these boards is obviously higher than their sckt 754 cousins. The starting price is around the $120 range and goes up over $200 for the Gigabyte board on some sites. So I'll just stick $120-$220 as a guideline.
Processor
Finally we get to the processor you say
Well there is a good reason for this. It is better to have a good idea of what kind of basic costs and requirements there exist BEFORE you get to the processor because then you can work around the budget you need.
Anyways, as with the motherboards, there are 2 different processor types for AMD's athlon64 lineup. Socket's 754 and 939.
Socket 754
Socket 754 has 2 versions of cpu's, the Newcastle based cpu has a smaller L2 cache at 512KB. The Clawhammer revision has a larger L2 cache at 1MB.
The lineup consists of the 2800+, 3000+, 3200+, 3400+ and 3700+ revisions.
Costs range from around $170 for the 2800+ to a premium of around $650 for the 3700+. So lets say the price variance depending on model is between $170-$650 for the sake of this write-up.
Socket 939
Socket 939 also has 2 revisions. The Newcastle cored version basically consist of the 3500+ and 3800+ models. The Sledgehammer based core is reserved for the FX lineup ONLY
The advantage of the Socket 939 core is that the memory is DUAL-CHANNEL v/s single channel for the socket 754 based setup. This equates to a far larger memory-bandwidth and is apparent in memory intensive applications. Games are not one of these areas that really standout although socket 939 based solutions are generally faster than their socket 754 brethren.
The prices for the socket 939 solutions range from over $460 for the 3500+ to around $780 for the FX-53. For the sake of this write-up lets say the variance is between $460-$780.
The advantage of an FX based setup on this chipset is that not only does it have twice as much L2 cache but it also comes with an unlocked multiplier (as do all FX cpu's. Opteron's for socket 940 as the same as FX's but they don't have an unlocked multiplier).
Socket 939 cpu's also have a higher HTT, running at 1000MHz rather than 800MHz for the socket 754 cpu's but in real world tests this has thus far yielded no tangible differnece in performance. I am also not sure about the 3700+, I will post concerning it after I read some more. It might also have 1000MHz HTT.
I highly recommend getting a socket 939 based solution though you may want to hold up for a bit while the new motherboards come out.
Memory Choices
Memory is important when purchasing your system. Since the athlon64 setup has an on-die memory controller it is a lot more finicky than a regular system (such as an AXP or P4 setup). Most motherboard makers list the types of memory that are compatible with their boards so consider double-checking with them. Athlon64 cpu's also have 2 revisions, C0 and CG.
The C0 revision was the first revision and thus far has had some compatibility problems with certain types of RAM running using very tight settings. CG has a reworked memory controller and allows for better compatibility and hence likely better performance.
I highly recommend getting decent memory. Prices vary a lot here and you should probably be able to use the memory from your current system.
For the sake of this write-up I going to list it as being between $0 - $350 for some of the top brands. Naturally I am assuming you are installing 1 gigabyte of memory.
Purchase round-up
This is the basic PURCHASE guide for an athlon64 based system. I am writing an installation guide right after this in the same thread
Total cost for an athlon64 system for power supply/motherboard/cpu and memory is:
Minimum = about $320 (assuming you have your own ram)
Maximum = about $1400 (assuming you get the best everything w/o going for the REALLY exotic memory and psu's)
This is not the be-all end-all of guides, people who have other suggestions/quips please add on to this thread so we can collectively help others getting these systems. Also keep in mind for the most part I refer to athlon64's and athlon FX's as athlon64's cept in the Processor section.
Disclaimer this thread has nothing to do with the general p4 v/s athlon64 debate... please keep that in mind before posting in this thread. That is not my intention and if you are intent on dragging the thread in that direction please consider making a new/separate thread for this purpose if you must.
To make life easier for everyone I will also include a running cost total to allow you to decide what sort of system to go for (the costs are not the bare minimum but close approximations to allow for cost variations, I am not responsible for fluctuations from the time of the writing of this till when you purchase your system)
Power Supply Unit
The P.S.U. is the primary component to keep in mind BEFORE you purchase your motherboard and cpu. This is doubly important if you have a new video card purchase coming up or already have one.
you must have a minimum of 18A on the 12V rail per AMD's specs. With a good enough P.S.U. you might get away with having lower specs. My P.S.U. gives my 27A on the 12V rail. My old P.S.U. was an antec 400W SL unit and gave me 18A on the 12V rail and I had no problems with it.
Some SFF units have no problems running an athlon64 setup with a lower spec'd P.S.U. but again this probably has more to do with the build quality of the device.
A good P.S.U. can run you over $60. upto around $150 for a really good one.
Chipset
There are multiple chipset available for the athlon64 platform. In this small write-up I will be concentrating on chipsets available for sockets 754 and 939 only.
Socket 754
For socket 754 you have the via based k8t800 and k8t800pro and derivatives, nvidia based NF3-150 and 250 and derivatives, SiS's chipset comprising at least of the 755 model and ALi's chipset comprising at least of the M1687.
I have not personally dealt with or seen many sales of the latter 2. Given this fact as well as the fact that I know more about the other 2 chipsets I will concentrate primarily on the via and nvidia solutions.
The nf3-250 and via k8t800pro versions are supposedly available with pci/agp locks and therefore are better solutions for overclockers who wish to push their athlon64 cpu's to their limits. Keep in mind that some versions of the boards have been reported as having floating locks (primarily the cheaper nf3-250's and k8t800pro's).
In my personal opinion I would consider the nf3-250 higher-end derivatives (with GbE) first and foremost before the others. I personally have a k8t800 board and have not had any problems with it. Raw performance is satisfactory and it overclocks well, though not having a pci/agp lock I have no pushed the fsb much above 210mhz for an extended period of time.
I would not recommend the nf3-150 simply due to the fact that it only has an 8-bit upstream HyperTransport bus (HTT) (and speed of 600mhz) instead of full 16bit (800mhz) bus. Overall there will be minor performance losses in many areas but I just don't see a reason to buy this board when the nf3-250, k8t800 and k8t800pro boards have full speed upstream/downstream HTT bus's.
The price for a decent nf3-250/k8t800/k8t800pro board will start around $85 but it might be an idea to shell out a little more for a better board. Consider a budget of between $100-$130
Any of the big boys will be a good purchase.
Socket 939
Unfortunately thus far there are only 2 chipsets and 3 boards out there for sckt 939 in retail. 2 of them are Via chipsets (k8t800pro) and one is based off Nvidia's nf3-250 chipset.
Based on reviews and the experiences of the people on the board I think it is only prudent to recommend the Asus A8V board and the Gigabyte K8N boards. The Abit AV8 board apparently still has problems.
Cost for these boards is obviously higher than their sckt 754 cousins. The starting price is around the $120 range and goes up over $200 for the Gigabyte board on some sites. So I'll just stick $120-$220 as a guideline.
Processor
Finally we get to the processor you say
Well there is a good reason for this. It is better to have a good idea of what kind of basic costs and requirements there exist BEFORE you get to the processor because then you can work around the budget you need.
Anyways, as with the motherboards, there are 2 different processor types for AMD's athlon64 lineup. Socket's 754 and 939.
Socket 754
Socket 754 has 2 versions of cpu's, the Newcastle based cpu has a smaller L2 cache at 512KB. The Clawhammer revision has a larger L2 cache at 1MB.
The lineup consists of the 2800+, 3000+, 3200+, 3400+ and 3700+ revisions.
Costs range from around $170 for the 2800+ to a premium of around $650 for the 3700+. So lets say the price variance depending on model is between $170-$650 for the sake of this write-up.
Socket 939
Socket 939 also has 2 revisions. The Newcastle cored version basically consist of the 3500+ and 3800+ models. The Sledgehammer based core is reserved for the FX lineup ONLY
The advantage of the Socket 939 core is that the memory is DUAL-CHANNEL v/s single channel for the socket 754 based setup. This equates to a far larger memory-bandwidth and is apparent in memory intensive applications. Games are not one of these areas that really standout although socket 939 based solutions are generally faster than their socket 754 brethren.
The prices for the socket 939 solutions range from over $460 for the 3500+ to around $780 for the FX-53. For the sake of this write-up lets say the variance is between $460-$780.
The advantage of an FX based setup on this chipset is that not only does it have twice as much L2 cache but it also comes with an unlocked multiplier (as do all FX cpu's. Opteron's for socket 940 as the same as FX's but they don't have an unlocked multiplier).
Socket 939 cpu's also have a higher HTT, running at 1000MHz rather than 800MHz for the socket 754 cpu's but in real world tests this has thus far yielded no tangible differnece in performance. I am also not sure about the 3700+, I will post concerning it after I read some more. It might also have 1000MHz HTT.
I highly recommend getting a socket 939 based solution though you may want to hold up for a bit while the new motherboards come out.
Memory Choices
Memory is important when purchasing your system. Since the athlon64 setup has an on-die memory controller it is a lot more finicky than a regular system (such as an AXP or P4 setup). Most motherboard makers list the types of memory that are compatible with their boards so consider double-checking with them. Athlon64 cpu's also have 2 revisions, C0 and CG.
The C0 revision was the first revision and thus far has had some compatibility problems with certain types of RAM running using very tight settings. CG has a reworked memory controller and allows for better compatibility and hence likely better performance.
I highly recommend getting decent memory. Prices vary a lot here and you should probably be able to use the memory from your current system.
For the sake of this write-up I going to list it as being between $0 - $350 for some of the top brands. Naturally I am assuming you are installing 1 gigabyte of memory.
Purchase round-up
This is the basic PURCHASE guide for an athlon64 based system. I am writing an installation guide right after this in the same thread
Total cost for an athlon64 system for power supply/motherboard/cpu and memory is:
Minimum = about $320 (assuming you have your own ram)
Maximum = about $1400 (assuming you get the best everything w/o going for the REALLY exotic memory and psu's)