compressed air car

Discussion in 'Green Room' started by Perris Calderon, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. Perris Calderon

    Perris Calderon Moderator Staff Member Political User

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    wow, the future is here


    I don't know if this is viable technology but one thing is for certain;

    if we wanted, every single car produced today could get 40 miles to the gallon

    fact, hybrid technology and charging batteries during off peak hours is the most obvious and immediate choice but there are others

    our dependance on petroleum is nothing but a manufatured addiction and there is no doubt in my mind we should be energy dependant in 5 years, no more then 10 years

    anyway, this technology looks legitimate to me, I don't know, haven't done any research into this particular application
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  2. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    Sounds good, but how much energy is used to get all that compressed air?

    It might be commercially economic, but is it sustainable energy wise?
     
  3. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Naw, not too much energy to compress it, but that is about the biggest the car can get. and the fastest it can go, read about this a few months ago.
    The creator uses it in everyday life, and the car does run, i think the top speed is 60mph with a 250 mile range, good city car concept, but nothing more :)
     
  4. falconguard

    falconguard Carbon based lifeform Political User Folding Team

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    A two stroke air compressor, would still use less energy than gasoline. Aren't all Gasoline stations equipped with air compressors for tires?

    The logistics are already in place.
     
  5. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    No lol, there are plenty that are not equipped with them :p
    Plus it would take forever to fill up the car with that little tire inflation one :p
     
  6. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    Direct water injection into a high compression engine is already feasable. What isn't is cold winters.

    Don't forget that electricity needs to be made, so choose your poison, coal, natural gas, or nuclear.


    Wind stations need the components made, and they are made with energy made from coal, natural gas, or nuclear power.


    Solar stations need to be made, from again, coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants.



    At what point do people get the idea, newer cars aren't the bad part, it is the old cars and trucks, and unrestricted diesels.




    All this electric bull**** and other stuff is just another way for the government to pad the wallets of some company who makes the minimum amount of cars-SUV's-Trucks and then runs with the money. Where do the batteries go out of a friends Prius? Why won't it run well in -20 weather?


    What is feasible and works is people restraining themselves and not buying the biggest POS they can and driving it ALONE, on the road. But that will never happen.
     
    Grandmaster and Vanquished like this.
  7. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Amen, great post, I think the solution is Hydrogen, powered by Nuclear Power, Nuclear power is the cleanest and most efficient power available. Wind, solar and water are from being the cleanest in that previous statement, because they are so in-efficient...

    Coal power has to be the most idiotic thing i have ever seen...
    It should not be used anymore, while in use a coal power plant releases more radiation than a nuclear power plant, and emits a hell of a lot more polution...
     
  8. trainmaster77

    trainmaster77 Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    then if nuclear is the answer ..where does the spent uranium or plutonium go? I can only imagine 100million people having radioactive stuff in their possession.

    how about we put it in your back yard? If you don't like that idea ..how can you justify putting it in someone elses back yard?

    the only real alternative to anything is solar. if we could only make the panels efficient and small enough to use with everyday stuff. That would make huge powerplants obsolete. What people really need to do is get away from the "centralized" idea of power.

    A couple wind turbines combined with solar power and diesel generators could theoretically power a home. You could even match this with lithium batteries (buried in your yard or inside the walls of your home) ..so you could have enough batteries to power the home for a good bit (takes lots of batteries ..which is why i said bury them or put them in the walls of your home). There is no real need for gasoline anymore. Hell some petroleum is good enough to power a diesel right from the ground ... like the stuff from Pennsylvania or North Sea.

    Diesel is cheap to refine ..only expensive right now because 99% of the refining capacity of this country was built with gasoline in mind pre-1980 era. Only a small portion of petroleum is made into diesel. If a refinery was built today with diesel in mind ...then the cost would be much less expensive. Not to mention... even biodiesel has more stored energy than gasoline and can be produced from corn, soybeans, sunflowers ...or pretty much anything else with natural oils. This would also provide the much needed income to our great midwestern farmers.

    I can't see any downside to using bio-diesel in the above stated scenario ... of wind,solar, and diesel to power a home with battery as backup.


    Other ideas would be instead of normal window shades that you pull down .. make the shades solar panels ..and use geo-thermal heating and air conditioning and move to more of a "domed shaped" style of home.



    we also have the technology to use ultra-tech polymers to make structures ..such as high tech plastics and ceramics ..and even steel ..but the need for wood is slim-to-none. Even carbon-fiber proves promising as far as strength v. most other products. Just very expensive right now ..which would change as demand rises and manufacturing expands.

    so until that happens with cars ... where its logical to change over to hybrid ..or even electric ..ill continue to drive my 10cyl 500hp 12mph m6 and pay all the taxes on my gas guzzling fuel ... partially financing ways to curb our petroleum addiction.

    One more thought ... as in some states ... the hybrid/high mpg car owners are facing usage tax ..because they don't use much gasoline ... and gasoline is heavily taxed ..and funds many things ....including our super expensive highways. Something i think is unfair ...and the monies spent on highways could much better be spent on mass-transit like trains. Anyway ..just wanted to say that ..because most people that are considering the cost benefit of hybrid cars ..the great gas mpg ..is going to be offset by a new tax based on mileage of the car.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  9. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Sure, put it in my back yard. My town wouldnt allow it it but go ahead....
    The way it is contained, and... UM not usable to anyone who go their hands on it kinda lessens the whole dangerous part...
    Lets see, we can send things into space right?
    Why not send the waste to the sun?
    The Sun is radioactive anyways.
    Can I place all the pollution emitted by coal and oil burning plants In your backyard?
    I mean, something tells me thats a little worse for the environtment, and what do you know! theres much more coal, and oil pollution then nuclear waste, go figure.
     
  10. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    Are you completely sure about this?

    Yeah and it would also erode the little remaining top soil we have left :ermm:
     
  11. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    It's not that the engine is using less energy. I'm talking about the energy wasted to compress air into usable form as a fuel. It will only be sustainable if it the compressed air cans give out more energy than is required to make them in the first place, right? :cool:
     
  12. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    True. ^^^


    But what happens when one spacecraft that is carrying a nuclear waste payload has a oopsie? Chernobyl would look like paradise.



    Where does the radioactive material come from? Put it back, put it back in the mine, why not, it was there to begin with.



    BIO fuels such as ethenol have LESS stored energy than gasoline. Their octane rating is higher due to that fact. More is used, and the evaporation cooling effect is the extra octane in the research number.


    However, the plant uses alot of water to make the ethenol, and electricity. Plus the parts to make the plant have to be made using current conventional methods.


    BIO-diesel has a higher energy per liter rating than conventional diesel, however to refit all the current models in production to use it would require a monetary expenditure as well as again, parts made with conventional energys. Bio-diesel dissolves and damages fuel system parts made for petrol based diesel.


    I just wish that the *******s who drive a ford Excursion to town alone, or where ever would stop whining about how bad it is, how much they care for the environment, and the cost of fuel.
     
  13. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    You want millions of little nuclear reactors going around? What happens when...we have a car crash? :p
     
  14. trainmaster77

    trainmaster77 Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    this is true ..but not totally .. you haven't considered the cost of storing the spent fuel ..or the radiation emitted from the spent fuel ..and the strategic risk this brings.

    How about transporting this "spent fuel" to like i said before ..someones back yard? And along the way (as its being transported by train) a terrorist decides to bomb the bridge crossing the mighty Mississippi river (Nevada is where nuclear waste is stored ..or many other desert areas). So now you have spent nuclear fuel polluting everything imaginable ...at levels you and I or anyone else can't even conceive for the next billion years ...effectively turning the entire Midwest into Chernobyl.
     
  15. Grandmaster

    Grandmaster Electronica Addict Political User Folding Team

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    Spot on. We basically need to stop making SUVs. Start making more energy efficient cars, and retrofit the millions of old cars.

    And for home usage, like trainmaster said, I think we'll have to move to a more decentralized style of energy where individual homes use a variety of sources (wind, solar, etc) and try to make their homes as energy efficient as possible. Then you could also sell the surplus back to the electricity company.

    It's not going to be very easy...

    edit: we could also start actually investing in mass public transportation (like Europe) and it would be a much easier way of cutting down energy consumption...
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  16. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    No, possibly a suggestion I had sent in to the DOE a few years back.


    Nuclear facility's offshore generating power for areas, plus use third stage cooling to create distilled water for irrigation and other use.



    Worst case scenario the core overheats and ploop drops into the ocean where it can cook away at too much water to overtcome, and when safely cooled be moved away by people safe in submarines or robotics. Plus no shortage of emergency cooing water to prevent such accidents.
     
  17. Steevo

    Steevo Spammer representing. Political User Folding Team

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    The worst you can do with the material found in a fission core reactor is to create a dirty bomb and pollute the area. It isn't weapons grade stuff. Not even close.


    Plus spent uranium is even less of a threat. So would I like it buried in the same area it came from? Sure, why not.
     
  18. fitz

    fitz Just Floating Along Staff Member Political User Folding Team

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    this conversation is fast becoming necessary to move the political channel :)
     
  19. Vanquished

    Vanquished Mr. Bananagrabber Political User

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    Yeah, definitely.

    But exactly, it is not weapons grade material... which is what people dont understand.
    Hollywood hasn't done it justice either...
    Nuclear power plants are built to withstand planes and bombs, it would be amazing if anything were to get through the thick walls.
    The only real possible danger with nuclear power is Human error, as seen in the 3 mile island incident, but even with that, nothing bad happened...
     
  20. trainmaster77

    trainmaster77 Moderator Political User Folding Team

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    and yes im sure about the stored energy of biodiesel ... look in this months motor trend. stored energy as follows in btu/gallon (british thermal units):

    Diesel Fuel 128,700
    Biodiesel Fuel 117,093
    Gasoline 115,400
    Ethanol (E85) 81,844
    Ethanol (E100) 75,670
    Lithium-ion battery 3600-7200 (Est)
    Nickel-Metal Hydride battery 1300-1800 (Est)


    and the comment about erosion ... you surely don't live in the midwest ..because anyone making that comment has no clue what farmers do. You actually think farmers allow erosion to happen? The very thing that feeds their family ..their biggest asset ... allowed to simply vanish? Obviously that comment is derived from some crap you read on some tree-hugging website or magazine.

    Today's farmers ... most don't even plow ..there is this little thing called "no-till" ..but i guess since you are the expert in farming and soil erosion ..you considered this. No till is self-explanatory.

    Farmers will ALWAYS grow crops. Instead of dumping or burning millions of metric tons of grain ..we could turn it into fuel ... essentially doing away with farmer subsidies and bring them more money for their crops. But i guess you considered that too when you flat out stated the good ol erosion comment without any factual content. Who knows ..with the farming capacity of Brazil and our Midwest ..we could conceivably have enough grain to fuel enough energy production to power the air compressors that make perris original find of the air car go ...but when people like you scream "SOIL ERROSION" without knowing what you are saying ... people will believe you because they know no better.

    This is the very root of today's misunderstandings of many issues at hand. Too many people mis-informed and just blabbing away ..and then too many people believing the first thing they hear ... and totally unable to make an unbiased decision based on fact ...even with undeniable proof right in front of their faces. much like the iraq war and Guantanamo bay.

    If people would actually be patient and wait for the real facts to surface ..ALL of the facts...and stop making absurd assumptions and accusations ... many of our problems ...including our reliance on foreign energy might actually be solved .... but this would take EVERYONE being totally honest with their beliefs ..setting them aside ...and being able to make rational and responsible conclusions.

    So ... just because YOU or anyone else want something to happen ..and you bend,twist, and even fabricate information to justify your belief and desire ... thats not enough ..because there are too many people that do just that. when everyone involved are able to sit down ...be rational ..and propose real ideas and thoughts (also called brainstorming) you come up with excellent problem solving ideas. And this isn't Rosie O'donnell or Akmud Amajenajadajajads of the world ... these ideas and solutions come from normal everyday people like you and me.


    btw... i like the space idea ..but it would really suck if the vehicle used to send it to space exploded before it got out of the atmosphere. I don't feel as if rockets are safe enough to rely upon to send our nuclear waste to the sun ..just yet ...but that is definitely a viable option i would think.

    and the nuclear reactor out in the ocean would be good until a terrorist decided to crash a plane into it. Or the boat carrying the fuel out to it capsizes and pretty much makes the ocean a death zone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2007