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Windows Vista "Anytime Upgrades"

Grandmaster

Electronica Addict
Political User
#5
I can totally see a crack that enables a basic version to an ultimate version.

So basic will be like XP Home.

Premium will be like XP Professional.

Ultimate will be Vista Home Premium + MCE.

Correct?
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#6
What about the three other versions? How can I store this key so you can reinstall? Seems like a tactic to me. Buy the cheapo version for $500 or whatever it will cost, and when you find out it completely crippled, gives us more money to unlock the software you already have.
 
#7
Grandmaster said:
I can totally see a crack that enables a basic version to an ultimate version.

So basic will be like XP Home.

Premium will be like XP Professional.

Ultimate will be Vista Home Premium + MCE.

Correct?
Home Premium also includes MCE + Tablet. :)

j79zlr said:
What about the three other versions? How can I store this key so you can reinstall? Seems like a tactic to me. Buy the cheapo version for $500 or whatever it will cost, and when you find out it completely crippled, gives us more money to unlock the software you already have.
The three other versions are Starter, Business and Enterprise. Starter is only meant for emerging markets and won't be sold here in the U.S. Enterprise is not a retail product and will only be offered to corporate customers on the Software Assurance program. That only leaves out Business, which is obviously not a direct upgrade path for home users who purchase Home Basic or Premium. After all, why would a business-person buy one of the home editions in the first place?

Once you purchase an upgrade license, I'm guessing you'll either receive a new product key via email, or the new license is tied to your Passport account somehow, similar to the way music licenses are associated with a Passport account on MSN Music. Either way, if you need to reinstall, you're obviously not going to have to pay again.

I don't see how this is a "tactic" in any way. It's no different from allowing XP Home users to upgrade to XP Pro if they need the additional functionality, except that Vista users won't have to go out and buy a new retail copy when they want to upgrade. It's a question of convenience more than anything else.
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#8
The tatic is simple, just like the 360, you can buy the basic edition, but you will pretty much have to buy the extra hardrive. Easy way to get more money. Same thing here. Think of all the college freshman who move into their dorm, and plug in their shiny new dell, just to find out that they need to upgrade to XP Pro to log into the college domain. Just because MS makes it "easier" doesn't make it more ethical. I am assuming here of course that Vista Home has the same crippled networking functionality.

You know of course that I am not MS's biggest fan, but until I really see some improvemnts, this really looks just like another typical MS upgrade, shiny new paint job with the same old engine. Finally moving to an actual user based system, i.e. you don't have to be root to do basically anything, is good, but there are thousands of applications that need to be rewritten to take advantage of this. Is that going to happen? Am I going to have to plunk down another $4000 for AutoCAD 2007 just to work in Vista. Obviously that is not MS's fault, but fault doesn't matter when I am going to make that decision.
 

Grandmaster

Electronica Addict
Political User
#9
j79zlr said:
The tatic is simple, just like the 360, you can buy the basic edition, but you will pretty much have to buy the extra hardrive. Easy way to get more money. Same thing here. Think of all the college freshman who move into their dorm, and plug in their shiny new dell, just to find out that they need to upgrade to XP Pro to log into the college domain. Just because MS makes it "easier" doesn't make it more ethical. I am assuming here of course that Vista Home has the same crippled networking functionality.

You know of course that I am not MS's biggest fan, but until I really see some improvemnts, this really looks just like another typical MS upgrade, shiny new paint job with the same old engine. Finally moving to an actual user based system, i.e. you don't have to be root to do basically anything, is good, but there are thousands of applications that need to be rewritten to take advantage of this. Is that going to happen? Am I going to have to plunk down another $4000 for AutoCAD 2007 just to work in Vista. Obviously that is not MS's fault, but fault doesn't matter when I am going to make that decision.
So it's Microsoft's fault that people make uninformed decisions when buying. Microsoft is a business, and businesses have one goal: make money.
 
Last edited:
#10
j79zlr said:
The tatic is simple, just like the 360, you can buy the basic edition, but you will pretty much have to buy the extra hardrive. Easy way to get more money. Same thing here. Think of all the college freshman who move into their dorm, and plug in their shiny new dell, just to find out that they need to upgrade to XP Pro to log into the college domain. Just because MS makes it "easier" doesn't make it more ethical. I am assuming here of course that Vista Home has the same crippled networking functionality.
When you're buying that shiny, new Dell, you're given the option to pick what version of Windows you want pre-installed on it. In fact, if Dell wanted to, they could just as well include Ultimate on all their machines and be done with it. But then that would also translate to higher costs even for consumers who have no idea what a domain is and could do just fine with an OS that doesn't support joining one.

I personally think making cut-down versions available at lower costs, and giving people a choice to pick what they want based on their needs is better than using a one-size-fits-all approach, where everyone has to pay the same price, even though Person A may want every single feature, and Person B won't be using even 5% of them.

I don't think anyone would question the ethics here unless they were desperately trying to find something to pick at...

You know of course that I am not MS's biggest fan, but until I really see some improvemnts, this really looks just like another typical MS upgrade, shiny new paint job with the same old engine. Finally moving to an actual user based system, i.e. you don't have to be root to do basically anything, is good, but there are thousands of applications that need to be rewritten to take advantage of this. Is that going to happen? Am I going to have to plunk down another $4000 for AutoCAD 2007 just to work in Vista. Obviously that is not MS's fault, but fault doesn't matter when I am going to make that decision.
Funny. One one hand, you complain that this is the same old engine with a shiny new paint job, and at the same time, you also complain about compatibility issues. Vista may be built on the same foundation as its predecessors, with evolutionary improvements. While that may mean it won't be a revolutionary new OS, it also means that almost all of your existing applications will continue to work, even with Vista's default non-admin accounts.

How is that possible? Have you read about the file and registry virtualization capabilities that are included as part of the User Account Control subsystem in Vista? The purpose of that is to prevent applications from breaking, even if they need access to a part of the system that they're not allowed to access. It redirects file and registry writes to a "user" location (rather than a system location), but the redirection is completely transparent to the application, so it's "fooled" into believing it performed its task successfully, and continues to work like it did on XP, without actually writing to critical parts of the system and compromising security.
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#11
Well I brought up both because those are my two concerns. I really don't like the idea of hardware level DRM, because like most anti-piracy crap, it will inevitable become a nuissance for those with legal software, and do little to nothing against the pirates. That is another topic though. Either they will break backwards compatability, or they will actually have a new OS model. I really doubt they will do both, or truly either. I believe it will be somwhere in the middle. They will do a few enhacements to security, but leave in old flaws, read WMF, and end up still breaking some old apps. It will be the same scenario as the switch from ini's to the registry. It worked mostly, but still broke things, and I actually think that MS did a job in that switch as far as backwards compatibility goes, but this is more complicated.

I want it to work NR, really, I don't hate MS, and I would like to see something mildly new arise, but I just don't have much faith in them. Vista was supposed to be a full rewrite in code, but it isn't as seen by security flaws from XP finding their way into Vista, WinFS was scrapped, monad was removed [in a default install], etc. See how one who is pessimitic about MS and their "innovation" could potentially expect another overhyped incremental upgrade and not a new OS.

Another potential problem I see with these paid upgrades is, how long before MS charges me $10 a month for security upgrades? Since, of course, Microsoft is a business, and businesses have one goal: make money.
 
#12
Quit bitching. They could have used Vista to introduce annual liscencing which is what they really have a hard-on for.

Besides, there are still millions of active copies of 98 running out there. If you don't like Vista wait a few years until M$ makes you a better offer.

Most people skip 1-2 generations of hardware and software updates anyway.
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#13
It isn't released yet....

Oh, and I forgot I wasn't allowed to question anything MS does, I will move along.
 

Khayman

I'm sorry Hal...
Political User
#15
Complaining about old security flaws in a unrealesed beta is like saying the programme doesn't work on the day they started making it
 

Son Goku

No lover of dogma
#18
Well, here was my take when I first read about this:

Well, it wouldn't be impossible. The real difference between say NT 4 Workstation and NT 4 server, came down to about 3 CD keys, and some extra files which bundled in the extra functionality...

It still leaves the consumer with, now 3 or 4 levels for home users (perhaps 4 if one includes starter). And in each of these, why get one over the other... No doubt more info will come out closer to release, to help people decide which is right for them... Do people buy the more limited version (to save money), or Ultimate (just in case)?

I could see many users walk in their local CompUSA or Best Buy, utterly confused (as many users are wrt their systems), and the sales guy trying to sell the most expensive option "cause that's how we make money". For those of us who they might ask advise from, there's still a big unknown in all of this, until all the specific differences from one version to another are itemized, so people can make comparisons, to provide the user with some semblance of an educated answer, to meet their confusion with...
Remember, when these confused customers, who don't know how to make heads or tails at what they're looking at walk away even more confused by the "high pressured sales guy", we're the one's they'll typically turn too :D At least since I posted that, some info has started appearing wrt the actual differences between versions...

Anyhow, being able to upgrade from one version to another, wouldn't be bad so long as that upgrade is maintained beyond the current install, given it's all on 1 CD. Also, if it's given that either:

- One can initially buy the version they want, not buy Home Basic, as the only option available in store, and then have to make a seperate purchase in addition, to get the version desired

- The total additive cost of buying Home basic, and then upgrading, is on par with having bought the higher version out right...
 

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