wi fi finder...sweet

[LeeJend]

I understand your comments but:

The air waves are not free, in the USA, or anywhere else.

Companies pay hundreds of millions of dollars to allocate a frequency band.

The use of those air waves is heavily regulated by the FCC.

The number of tech tools that are "restricted" because of their potential misuse is long and getting longer. (encryption methods and algorithms, DVD region codes, hundreds of chemicals and even former household products, explosives, even a stinking fire cracker, etc.)

Identity theft is becoming epidemic. ( My boss, who is security savy, just had his ATM number stolen and used for a shopping spree. A church member had his identity stolen by a known fellon and is getting arrested regularly now.)

We just don't need anymore toys on the street to make it easier for the script kiddies.

BTW Since you knowingly open your broadband to total strangers you would be legally liable for the actions of anyone who used your connection to commit an act of terror or an act resulting in unintentional loss of income or property damage (hacking).

The legal precedent is there already. Leave your keys in your car and it gets stolen and involved in a traffic accident and you are responsible for damages. That's in the Motor Vehicle Code in every state I've lived in (PA, CA, KS, TX, IL, MD).

Freedom is a wonderful and dangerous thing.

 

[LeeJend]

If you stole my car and ran the dealer over I would thank you.

But if I had left the keys in the car I would be guilty of "Contributory Negligence" under US law and I WOULD get sued (especially if I had more money or better insurance than you). Also, to cut down on the "car thefts for joy rides" problem about 30-40 years ago State Motor Vehicle departments added specific criminal charges that can be brought against anyone making theft of their car easy (i.e. keys in car). It used to be common practice to leave the keys in your car (a long time ago).

All parties contributing to a crime are guilty under US law. The contribution can occur "before the fact" (i.e. keys in car, net access open) or "after the fact" (try to cover up the crime or hide the guilty party) or "during the fact" (me holding the car dealer in place so you could hit him).

The ISPs are protected from suit or prosecution under the terms of your service contract with them (the 20 page EULA that we all click accept to without reading). You have agreed to be solely responsible for what happens over your connection.

The key legal consideration is making something easy. Wide open access is easy. Access with a password of 1234 shows intent to protect and creates a "reasonable doubt". A spare key hidden under a panel in a magnetic holder shows intent to protect access, keys in the ignition don't.

Remember there are more people in law school now than there are practicing law. They have to earn a living somehow.

 

[Perris Calderon]

interesting legal debate

first, as far as the airwaves being free...they are free for reception in america...they are licensed for transmition...for this point, you are in part correct, as in oreder to serf the net, you would need to transmit as well as receive...so this point is valid on your behalf

however, the bandwidth we are talking about has already been allocated for public use...no company or individual can claim any stake whatsoever when it regards the frequency we are talking about, and any company using this frequency is irresponsible if it is transmitting sensitive information...they would in fact be liable for using a public frequency for the transmition...the person receiving the information would have to un equivicably have knowledge that the information he has gathered is illegal for him to have in order for a prosecution to have merit against anyone receiving 802.11

plus, I am not in any fasion liable for someone using my bandwidth for his own ends in this case...whether or not my bandwidth is available for others to use...inless I personally and irresponsibly make sensitive information available to the public using this public frequency

using the argument you propose would make libraries liable for what happened to the world trade center, since those individuals used library isp for their data and information transfer

the agreement that I accept sole respnsibility when I use the internet involves my actions or fualts incurred to myself or others by me...not actions incurred by others.

you also have to realize, 'm using available and known technology that is even promoted by my own isp and most internet providers to use instead of hardwireing...there nothing unique about the technology, and the only peeps liable are the peeps respnsible for any respective action...

I give no permission to perform anything illegal from my isp, and no one can assume that I give permission for illegal activity and use this as some kind of defense or shared liability for illegal activity.

a person has to go out of there way to find my bandwidth, looking for it so to speak, and then set camp in proximity and make then use of it.


isp's try to scare people out of sharing their bandwidth with this claim, but it is a false claim

it would be a novel prosecution if a prosecutor at all thought to use it, and it would fail

 

[Perris Calderon]

well, I've gotten 2 false positives, and one false negative

it is a very usefull tool, but it's not perfect...well worth it

 

[LeeJend]

Like you said interesting legal issue.

The precedents are there (cars, guns, etc.) to support the case for holding you legally responsible, so the risk is there. Law builds heavily on legal precedents.

The part that scares me though is that you could never prove it was someone else working through your open wifi that committed the act. All the internet records (and it is all recorded) will show your land line as the culprit.

 

[Perris Calderon]

law in fact can but doesn't neccessarily build on precedence, that's correct.

here, the prominant precedence is that the technology is specifically available for public broadcast, this is why it's available in the first place...not a good chance a prosecutor would have a successful prosecution.

as far as my lan line being the culprit in an illegal activity, my public broadcast would actually help sheild me from prosecution, the same way an airport is sheilded from prosecution if something happens on their public hotspots, and libraries and schools, high schools and colleges that broadcast public internet...the same way municipalities like those in new york and other areas like this are sheilded from prosecution

it's just a fear tactic that isp's use to keep people from sharing their bandwidth

 

[Khayman]

Interesting discussion. As a note i remember reading a few stories over the past month where people who where arrested for hacking got off when they claimed someone else did it through their computer using a trojan, even when there was no major proof of this....interesting

 

[Perris Calderon]

here's an important point I don't think LeeJend is considering when he's using the automobile and gun analogy.

both of those items are licensed in one fasion or another

rifles while don't need a specific license per se, it is regulated in how it's carried, etc

a car cannot be used at all without a license.

the internet is not licensed...making something available to the public whis is allready available to the public is a non event.

this could not even make it to trial, much less to for a decision to be rendered

 

[Perris Calderon]

now, on the other hand, the isp could probably sue in a civil action for theft of service, however, this would only be allowable if they specifically dissallowed the transmission.

however, just about every isp promotes the use of wi fi, so they wouldn't have a civil case either until they changed their policy concerning wi fi

 

[dreamliner77]

I'm gonna go park in front of Dealer's house...