Which Card ?

[stuy_b]

OK, im in the market for a new graphics card, but I just can't seem to make up my mind. So your opinions would be welcome.

By the way price is not an issue.

Do I buy ..

Gainward GeForce4 Ti4600 128MB DDR Ultra/750XP

or

Hercules Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB

TIA.

 

[NetRyder]

GeForce4 ... nVidia has better driver support IMO.

 

[Kevin Ar18]

deleted

 

[chastity]

Well I look around and see what everybody says bout the support for the card not just driver support but all kinds of support and also the performce for the price. I would recommend the same as NetRyder, but also I agree with Kevin AR18 that the Radeon 9700 Pro is the fastest card at this point in time just as the Geforce4 were back when they came out. But I've also not heard anything other then it being the fastest to make me want to go buy one.

 

[stuy_b]

thanks all.

Chastity/Kevin I agree with you, all reviews of 9700 have only praise for the card. What temps me most is the image quality, which is superior to the Geforce's. Looks like its the 9700 for me ! ;-)

 

[dijital]

stuy b, if you dont mind waiting maybe 3 months, i'd hold off and see how the new nvidia chipset, the nv30, performs when they come out and then make a decision.

 

[dabomb]

get a gf4 ti series mate

 

[pothitos]

get a ti4200 now then wait until the nv30 conmes out

 

[Sazar]

from an unbiased point...

r300 aka radeon 9700 is the fastest and also the driver team that is working on it happens to be same guys who used to work on the driver team for detonators... therefore catalyst is gaining some recognition as being a good set of drivers... unfortunately those who do not use ati cards will not know this...

nvidia has a very good set of cards in the g4 series and I am definitely a fan... www.tcwo.com call them up and ask for their MSI g4 ti4600 I saw it today at their store for around 269 USD... which is a very good price since the MSI version of the ti 4600 is consitently one of the best solutions in its class...

now for the 9700... why NOT buy it? it is only a little more expensive than the 4600, has support for dx9 and has agp 8x support... you are getting a nextgen for the price of something that was designed for FULL dx 8.0a support... not 8.1 (read product specs)

also the speeds matter... g4 does not come close to speeds of the 9700 if you compare test to test... if AA is turned on for the 9700 then yes they are close... but AA gives a massive hit.. if AA is turned on both cards you are easily going to see the 9700 win...

the new dets... the 40.x series give the 4600 a MASSIVE boost in the nature test for the 3dmark2001 SE test otherwise there is no other real improvement... a few fps tops... worthy yes... but it is not as massive a performance boost as everyone claims... remove the nature scores and the det 40.x series is a good driver release, but not as spectacular as the 1000 point increases you will see in 3dmark...

if you WANT to buy a card now and have the money... get the 9700... if you want to wait for a nexgen card wait for the r350 0.15 micron process card from ATI... the 0.13 micron process nv30 from Nvidia or the R350/R400 0.13 process solution from ATI that comes out end of this year/early next year...

also please do understand that ATi had a supposedly bad driver support compared to nvidia... fact is they just don't release drivers as often as nvidia... you can take that many ways... either nvidia has a problem therefore need the releases, ati does not need the releases due to their drivers having good enoughstability/performance already, nividia has better care for its customers therefore releases on a regular basis... am sure there are other reasons too that I could include but I don't want to start a flame war ...

also catalyst drivers are being released officially on a regular basis and there are many beta releases of catalysts too..

if money is no issue get a 9700... or a 4600 which is NOT nexgen... or wait for r350 or nv30...

do not get lower than a 4600 if price is not a factor... 4200 is MUCH slower than a 4600 @ default clocks...

my 2cents.... and more

 

[chastity]

Originally posted by Sazar
from an unbiased point...

r300 aka radeon 9700 is the fastest and also the driver team that is working on it happens to be same guys who used to work on the driver team for detonators... therefore catalyst is gaining some recognition as being a good set of drivers... unfortunately those who do not use ati cards will not know this...

nvidia has a very good set of cards in the g4 series and I am definitely a fan... www.tcwo.com call them up and ask for their MSI g4 ti4600 I saw it today at their store for around 269 USD... which is a very good price since the MSI version of the ti 4600 is consitently one of the best solutions in its class...

now for the 9700... why NOT buy it? it is only a little more expensive than the 4600, has support for dx9 and has agp 8x support... you are getting a nextgen for the price of something that was designed for FULL dx 8.0a support... not 8.1 (read product specs)

also the speeds matter... g4 does not come close to speeds of the 9700 if you compare test to test... if AA is turned on for the 9700 then yes they are close... but AA gives a massive hit.. if AA is turned on both cards you are easily going to see the 9700 win...

the new dets... the 40.x series give the 4600 a MASSIVE boost in the nature test for the 3dmark2001 SE test otherwise there is no other real improvement... a few fps tops... worthy yes... but it is not as massive a performance boost as everyone claims... remove the nature scores and the det 40.x series is a good driver release, but not as spectacular as the 1000 point increases you will see in 3dmark...

if you WANT to buy a card now and have the money... get the 9700... if you want to wait for a nexgen card wait for the r350 0.15 micron process card from ATI... the 0.13 micron process nv30 from Nvidia or the R350/R400 0.13 process solution from ATI that comes out end of this year/early next year...

also please do understand that ATi had a supposedly bad driver support compared to nvidia... fact is they just don't release drivers as often as nvidia... you can take that many ways... either nvidia has a problem therefore need the releases, ati does not need the releases due to their drivers having good enoughstability/performance already, nividia has better care for its customers therefore releases on a regular basis... am sure there are other reasons too that I could include but I don't want to start a flame war ...

also catalyst drivers are being released officially on a regular basis and there are many beta releases of catalysts too..

if money is no issue get a 9700... or a 4600 which is NOT nexgen... or wait for r350 or nv30...

do not get lower than a 4600 if price is not a factor... 4200 is MUCH slower than a 4600 @ default clocks...

my 2cents.... and more

Sazar that is one of the best posts I ever seen relating to which one is better Ati or Nvidia. Well since I'm happy with my GF4 Ti 4600 I think I'll wait and see what the NV30 can do. I generally think the last choice is the person who is going to be spending the money but it also nice to see what other ppl have to say and in this case Sazar ur post was very informative to me at least.

 

[stuy_b]

lol, thanks Sazar!, well iused to have ATI cards back in the ol' Xpert days, and b4 that too, alwaz was impressed with image quality.

Yeah the Ti4600 is fast, but not as good as 9700 (tests show), its all very well saying wait, but i want new card now!. whatever you buy becomes obselete with PCs.. part of the teritory.

Yea. the 4600 would be the lowest i'd go, I have a GTS2 Pro at the moment, so i know all about the driver issues.

Simply put , ATI has had a big shake up and now have started to release exceptional hardware & drivers.. peoples opinions dont change though. like AMD vs Intel!... cut along story short, unless i find supplier issues for buying a 9700 , or findout some major issue in the meantime then Im going back to the ATI house!! The current issue with some VIA boards dont effect me as Im Intel anyway!.

Thanks all

as soon as money is in bank I'll be buying www.Komplett.co.uk will have stock by 26th hopefully.

 

[Jz1397]

Hercules Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB if price is not a factor. look at the benchmarks. if the drivers are terrible, think what good ones could do....

 

[stuy_b]

yea. besides Hercules are known for making good conversions of cards.. there ATI 9700 looks tip-top.

I saw a saphire ATI9700.. but never heard of em.. so im unsure about that..... i can get that for £288 inc. vat

http://www.sapphiretech.com/9700/9700Pro-C00.htm quite inpressive DAC support though

 

[Sazar]

better to buy a solution directly from ATi since the other manufacturers have not really done much better than the retail..

all the benches I have seen show cosmetic increases with the ATi stock solution still being one of the fastest

your choice though and yes hercules does have a decent solution

 

[dabomb]

go with the latest geforce series mate, wont have trouble with driver upgrades etc

 

[stuy_b]

OK I tell ya what i really really want in a card..

Good image quality 2D & 3D gaming, as in full AA or equivalant that doesnt drive the PC to a halt! my GTSPro suxs with 2days games, when trying to use x4AA... but i want nice image quality. ALso good DVD support.

Any further suggestions.. Im starting to lean away from my original 9700 choice now.. god why cant it be simple choice!! lol

 

[Sazar]

I don't understand?

what driver problems?

every peice of hardware has problems with certaihn setups or for certain users...

ati has had MORE than its share of problems before... and this ir pre catalyst... like a year and a half/2 years ago...

nvidia too is having problems with its 0.13 micron process... does this mean no one is going to buy the nv30 when it comes out?

please address the relevant topic at hand...

the 9700 does not have driver issues... it is not fully optimized... true

but before you trash it... please look at the g4 ti series... the new dets released make the card seem competetive.. BUT its been released what? 7months or so ago? a year ago? what is it?

its taken them a while to optimize the drivers...

the 9700 performance v/s the 4600 is non-optimized v/s optimized performance...

like I said... the catalyst drivers do not have problems... if you have a prob with 2.3 rollback to 2.2... or 2.1.... whatever you want to do...

btw the onboard rage chip makes ati cards better for dvd.. though nvidia is competing welltoo

9700 the way to go if you have the money RIGHT NOW...

personally I would say wait for a couple of months...

 

[chastity]

Well go to a shop and look at what they have and compare. Otherwise I figure u can't really go wrong with either a 9700 or a Ti 4600

 

[Sazar]

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzQ0

article includes information concerning the so called driver issues..

 

[Geffy]

If you are going to get the GF4, then get the Gainward GoldenSample version, that is one that has been tested and passed at a higher clock speed, so when you get it you can OC it and get some good stuff out of it.