what do you think about the latest suprem court decision. (US)

As I said - blatantly did it. I'm fairly sure there were quite a few bystanders who would attest to Thomas Hamilton being the guy who commited the crime!
 
I think this thread has went off topic. I think its unconstitutional for them to limit the death penalty to people over 18 years of age. When people who kill someone on purpose of the age of lets say 15 damn well know what they are doing in most cases.
 
sorry, bystanders are wrong quite a bit when it comes to identifying criminals...not to mention an official frame or set up by the local boys which is pretty easy to make look blatant...

everyone needs to be able to explore their innocence...you have no idea what defense a "blatant criminal" will mount...it doesn't matter if you or I think it's "blattantly obvious", these are the principles that founded this country
 
I'm in 2 minds over this.On one hand I agree with the death penalty but on the other hand what if proved innocent later on?
Yes when I think of the likes of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley etc who were proven without question to be quilty but then we have the case of Derek Bentley who was hanged in 1953 then subsequently proven to be innocent and pardened in 1998
 
DNA is advancing so much that people presumed guilty for crimes committed previously can get off of death row because of technology we have today not what we had back when the people committed the crime. Thank god that innocent people were not killed. But now that DNA and forensic science has made such great leaps if all evidence is pointed toward a suspect and that person is convicted there is no reason if that crime is horrible enough that the person should live. We also can sit here and debate and debate about what we think but we also don't know(unless you do know first hand)first hand what the victim's families feel when that person gets to go to jail for "life" and have them get out after a certain period of time. That family doesn't get to get their son or daughter or mom and dad back when that person gets out of prison.

There is no punishment in this country that fits the crime. Killers and rapists are getting to get out of prison earlier and earlier and the victim doesn't get to have the same life if they live at all over a period of time.

This country has a revolving door policy when it comes to criminals where they just get out and do the same crimes, go to jail, get to watch cable television and then get back out and do the same crimes again.

Perris you made the statement that the death penalty increases violent crimes...please tell me where you got this notion??? I'm not saying it decreases violent crime but there is not enough information about how the death penalty increases nor decreases violent behavior.

Raise every penalty for a crime by five years mandatory with no getting out for good behavior or loopholes and actually make criminals scared of getting caught and less crime will be committed. criminals have nothing to fear because they know they have nothing to worry about. Put the criminals in jail and make them stay there. Make them serve their full sentence without precious cable television and other things to make their lives easier and crime wouldn't be much of a problem.

concrete DNA and forensic evidence, a witness or two, and no doubt left in the jury's mind = kill the rotten criminal and keep them away from my nieces and nephews so they can live a safe life.
 
California had a mandatory sentencing structure that was deemed one of the countries toughest, The architect of the mandatory sentencing then Gov. Jerry Brown and district level judges have deemed it a failure. It has backlogged the system, with useless penalties for miniscule crimes. As a direct result Penal time is basically irreelevant unless it is a capital offense.

There are too many things wrong with the penal system,but it is the best one we have. You can argue whether a person is guilty or not, in the end it comes down to money, until they fix this issue, it does not matter if we think it is fair or not.

The State of Illinois enacted a moratorium on all death Penalty cases because of this issue. Hey when you are guilty you are guilty, but there are too many people who have been found innocent of crimes they had been sentenced for. Hell the University of Chicago has legal team devoted for justice in wrongly convicted cases.
I'm sorry this issue is far bigger than just a social forum, did not realize it until I started writing, needless to say I agree with the supreme court.
 
Evil Marge said:
I'm in 2 minds over this.On one hand I agree with the death penalty but on the other hand what if proved innocent later on?
Yes when I think of the likes of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley etc who were proven without question to be quilty but then we have the case of Derek Bentley who was hanged in 1953 then subsequently proven to be innocent and pardened in 1998


I completely agree. But I feel that in America, there are to many kids under 18 getting away with murder literally and we can't do it back to them. My teacher was telling me about these two kids, I believe they were 14 and 15, they tied an old lady to a lamp post or tree and lit her on fire just for fun. That's not good in the slightest, but we can't put them in the chair for what they did.
 
most of the wrongly convicted people were from cases that happened years back where further DNA and research from technology that is available today not then helped the person's innocence prevail.

Also minscule crimes like petty theft or marijuana dealing are not the ones I"m talking about. I'm speaking of violent crimes.
 
Tuffgong4 said:
most of the wrongly convicted people were from cases that happened years back where further DNA and research from technology that is available today not then helped the person's innocence prevail.

Also minuscule crimes like petty theft or marijuana dealing are not the ones I"m talking about. I'm speaking of violent crimes.
wrong...people are found guilty who are not all the time

again, are you guys so naive to think people aren't framed with this "DNA" evidence as well?

how in this mans land people like your selfs think that a man shouldn't be able to pursue their innocence is just dumbfounding.

and pursuing innocence in those times where the punishment is death HAS to explore ALL avenues of their innocence...lest we don't care that an innocent man be put to death

this cost money...MUCH MORE MONEY then incarcerating them...but there is the pound of flesh some people want...and some people don't want their pound of flesh to try to prove they are Innocent

I guess this is where we are today...screw the founding fathers and their vision...we I guess live in a country where people don't want it to be the America that our for fathers died for

this is where we are today
 
here's a PERFECT example.

I used to be an entertainer.

one day, a girl marched downstairs into the dressing room with a friend of hers looking for a guy in particular to have some fun with.

I left the dressing room, which was monitored to prevent steeling while we were on stage.

well, when one of the girls left the dressing room, her boyfriend was upstairs and saw her ripped stockings, her red face, etc

there were also bruises on her legs chest and back that didn't look like it would happen from consentual sex.

she claimed rape to keep out of trouble from her boyfriend, and her friend was an eye witness to the event.

DNA evidence, bruises, everything to make this an open and shut case.

well, you know where this is going...the monitor was the only thing that saved this man from incarceration for rape...RAPE!!!

suppose when he left the dressing room, someone else physically harmed this girl...maybe murdered her...suppose their was no monitor.

well, it would be pretty darned clear that this enter trainer had done this...blatant evidence would have convicted him in no uncertain terms.

A PERSON MUST BE ABLE TO PURSUE THEIR INNOCENCE, and when faced with capitol punishment, every single avenue must be available for their effort to prove they are not guilty

unless you want a pound of flesh for the crime...then forget this story, it won't matter to you then
 
When Reagan expanded the drug crimes back in the 80's , as a direct consequence we now have prisons teeming with people for drug related offenses. Once again the prisons teem with poor, under-educated minorities, with bad representation, look at Texas, where criminals were put into prison while their defense was asleep. I'm not saying, that they were guilty or innocent, just that that one ripple has profoundly affected our penal system. Now imagine this supose we convict kids under the age of 18, where do we put them? We cannot put them into general pop blocks in state facilities, their lawyers will argue this is cruel and unusual punishment, and they may be right. I don't believe so, but our penal system says we cant put little fish with big fish. You would effectively create a new tier of Penal institutions, bigger than Juvenile, but not quite adults, as I said before the Social issues affecting this are beyond wheter you agree with this or not, but how far are you willing to think? and How far are you willing to pay?
 
perris said:
wrong...people are found guilty who are not all the time

I never said people weren't convicted of crimes they didn't commit. I don't know where you read I said that but I said technology today is giving these people the freedom they deserve!!! I didn't say anything about our judicial system being perfect. They deserve to be free if they didn't do anything. But as technology gets better there are going to be less screw ups. There will still be screwups but not as many and they are going to be able to let free people go just by forensic evidence.

Bringing up how people are framed is a very weak argument. Yes it happens but if we just assume that happens then our justice system is useless...that is a 1% case if that high of all crime cases.

also the example you gave happens yes, but that doesn't mean that that is a reason to not have a death penalty. That is just one of cases where things fall out.

WHen there is no doubt in a case and there is concrete evidence take that persons life and use that person as an example of what can happen to a criminal.

also to me I'd rather have a glut of criminals jamming up jail then to have extra room in a jail. Keep squeezing the criminals in the jails until there is only standing room only.

If america doesn't get tougher on criminals then the streets aren't going to get any safer.

I still would like to see how the death penalty creates more violence like I asked earlier??
 
If your old enough to kill, your old enough to be killed. If your old enough to rape, your old enough to pay the price. I personally feel we don't punish our criminals enough, and sometimes the jail life isn't that bad, I think thats why jails are getting more crowded. Also I have a question about terrorists? What if terrorists start bringing people over to attack us under 18, can we give them death for the lives they will/may take?
 
Lots of good points made all around here. I am particularly fond of Ron "Tater Salad" White's view on this subject line Re: "If you come to Texas and kill someone, we'll kill you back...it's our policy." ...no laughing matter in real life, but at least you know where you stand.

This is a very difficult subject to digest. On one hand you cannot tell me that a 14, 15, 16 year old does not know what murder is, but, is said youth capable of making adult decisions? Hell, I know 20-somethings not able to make adult decisions!

I do not, however have a problem with the death penalty in some situations. There are many, many cut and dry cases where it can, and should apply. As said by a few people here, I think we need to stop making prisons adult day-care facilities for starters. Make them a miserable, undesirable existence and there's a deterrent for you. No, I'm not condoning torture or any inhumane practices, but for Gods sake, don't make it easy! Basic training was A LOT harder than a lot of the prison lifestyles I see!

But hey, my Born-Again Christian friend says Armageddon is coming any day, so maybe we're all wasting our time discussing this?! :rolleyes:
 
always a good post from the Patriot...

another Ron White quote from the same stand up..."some states are abolishing the death penalty...my states putting in an express lane"
 
also to me I'd rather have a glut of criminals jamming up jail then to have extra room in a jail. Keep squeezing the criminals in the jails until there is only standing room only.

If america doesn't get tougher on criminals then the streets aren't going to get any safer.

I still would like to see how the death penalty creates more violence like I asked earlier??
So does this mean you'd make up crimes to populate this theory?
I am on the other side of the fence, I'd rather have less full jails, because then it would mean that the police are doing their job and this is where the money should go. You can have more jails, I'd rather have more police.
 
I would rather have more cops like you but right now with the way the budgets are being handled in most US states there is a need for cuts to some programs and stupidly the cuts are most likely going to be for law enforcement, firemen, and schools!

I never said people should be put away for no reason or for made up crimes. I jsut wish people convicted of crimes served their full sentence and to not have career probationers that jsut keep committing the same crime over and over again with nothing more than probation. Less criminals should mean less crime but when they get out of jail too soon most just go back to committing the same crimes.

Most police do their jobs but just two weeks ago we watched a guy try to break into my friend's car. he saw us and ran away into his car with a busted left rear tire. We immediately called the police and were on the phone with them for 45 minutes until a cop showed up. While waiting we watched the guy try and break into other cars all the way down the alley on the next 2 or 3 streets. My friends and I ID'ed the guy and then were told to wait so that we can be called back into the town's police department to file and sign a complaint. Did we ever get called? no...do I think he got a slap on the wrist from whatever judge was hearing the case if it took place at all. Yes. So now maybe a criminal that knows where we ID'ed him and what house he was at when he got caught might just be able to come right back.

we need more police men and less crime. will that happen with the way our state budgets are being cut. I doubt that
 
Bring back the public hanging .. If they kill, kill them. Teen or not, they should know what is wrong and what is not. I think the parent should get some kind of charge also. They are the ones who let the kids get away with everything .. There is no such thing as "Discipline" anymore. What happen to the days when your pa would have you go out to the wood shed and get a stick to be beat with ?? Oh yeah, that was taken away by some stupid bureaucratic psychiatrist who has no kids, but yet feels they know everything about them. I can remember when I was younger and would get in trouble. I was beat with anything my parents could find at the time of the punishment, whether it be a stick or a flipping brick ... Kids need to have punishment brought back. Don't put up with what they do, if they do something and need punished, or beat. Then do it for idiotic sakes ..

Just yelling at them and the like is going to do nothing. SO to all those shrinks out there, and the bureaucrats. Up yours on your "Belief" of how you think a parent should raise their kids. I do agree that there are some parents who just don't give a rats scrotum, they are the ones who should be held accountable, along with thier kids who do the crimes, Whether it be simple theft to capitol murder.
 
So he walked through a school shooting people, and you say that's not enough evidence to prove him guilty? I think a few hundred witnesses is certainly more than enough!
 
I say he needs a trial, you say to hell wtih the law

hmmm

there are countries that behave the way you want America to behave you know
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest profile posts

Also Hi EP and people. I found this place again while looking through a oooollllllldddd backup. I have filled over 10TB and was looking at my collection of antiques. Any bids on the 500Mhz Win 95 fix?
Any of the SP crew still out there?
Xie wrote on Electronic Punk's profile.
Impressed you have kept this alive this long EP! So many sites have come and gone. :(

Just did some crude math and I apparently joined almost 18yrs ago, how is that possible???
hello peeps... is been some time since i last came here.
Electronic Punk wrote on Sazar's profile.
Rest in peace my friend, been trying to find you and finally did in the worst way imaginable.

Forum statistics

Threads
62,015
Messages
673,494
Members
5,621
Latest member
naeemsafi
Back