Sazar
Rest In Peace
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 14,905
this is more a clarification on hardware views than anything else... if you lads/lasses want to call me an Ati fan boy... thats fine... 
I just want to explain a few things that may become apparent over GF FX posts from me over the next few days... sort of a summary...
I have been pretty vocal about the GF FX being a disappointing product and have continually said that I thought nvidia had turned into more of a PR juggernaut than a video card manufacturer...
however let me make a few things clear...
the GF FX is (will be) a quality product according to the specs we have seen... the comdex demoed card was apparently a first revision of the pcb that will be used in the final product therefore there are likely to be changes made... and it did run stably... also the cooling device/temperatures/external power source were raising a few eyebrows... but these things are likely to be revised as well for the final product... the first object... the cooler... depends on your view point... the second and third I had a hard time with due to the press releases of nvidia leading up to the comdex debut...
HOWEVER bear in mind this was a fresh off the presses release... so to speak... what had miffed me was the claims by nvidia that the 0.13 micron process would lower temps/power consumption even with ddr II and that ATi's r300 (9700pro) was a bs card due to external power usage... obviously this is not what the company actually thinks since they have quietly integrated the same device...
further... the benches released by nvidia have basically been comparisons between the ti4600 and the nv30... widely viewed as benches beteen the 4600 and the 5800ultra... there is not one nvidia released benchmark that I have seen scouring the web that has a DIRECT comparison with an r300 based board...
there are a few other websites that have posted their own comparitive fps' and what not to show some kind of balance between the ATi product and the nvidia product... take these with a pinch of salt... you cannot rely on benches unless they are done using the same test setup... and therefore reserve judgement till the final product is released...
nvidia is claiming 30-50% improvement in performance over the r300 9700pro card... from looking @ the cards statistics and the raw numbers posted by nvidia themselves... it may be a little optimistic... but till the final product ships it is all speculation... personally... looking at the 2 pieces of hardware... I find it hard to see THAT much difference... and perhaps the overall performance delta will be closer to 15-20%... this is still in favor of the nv30 even though not a one piece of silicon has been benched independently yet... all numbers @ this stage are effectively calculated projections.. with a little marketing and PR work thrown into the mix
now for the last part... the myth about the nv31/34 products... these are neither better nor refresh versions of the nv30... the nv31 will be a lower clocked budget card... and the nv34 per what I have read so far will be an onboard gpu... perhaps on the nextgen nforce mobo's...
the nv35 is supposed to be a refresh for the nv30... when it will be available is up to conjecture... but it should be a little juicier than the nv30... rumours peg a 256bit memory pipelne but again that is all conjecture...
for GFX card related info that should help those of you looking to upgrade...
expected shipping dates now for the GF FX... it will ship enmasse probably around february next year optimistically... the nv31 and 34 products have reached tape out stages and extrapolating from that (given that nvidia historically takes about 1-2 months to finalise product and release it after tape out stage) perhaps january/february is accurate for shipping date enmasse again...
the nv30 itself should hit the shelves ib small quantities for the holiday season though the r300 products are expected to rule the roost... the r300 based radeon 9500/9500pro and the 9700 are all expected to be released around december 8th, 2002... the 9500 and 9500pro should be priced around the same level as the ti4200 which they compete with... performance of the r300 based cards is higher than related gf4 ti products... the 9700 will be priced to compete with the ti4600...
lets talk about price ranges....
the gf4 ti price range should keep slipping a little bit more... 4200 should be around 130-140 for a 4200-128mb version with agp8x from SOME retailers online... lets peg it @ 150 for sanity's sake... the 4400 perhaps around 175-180... and the 4600 possibly around the 200 dollar mark...
the r300 based cards should keep close to the levels of the gf4 ti series... the 9500 should be around 150, the 9500pro should be around 170-180, the 9700 should be a bit more than 220 perhaps 250... the 9700 pro should probably be hovering around the 300 dollar mark for the holiday season...
these prices are all PROJECTED... by me.. no one else based on trends I have seen over the past few months and comments released by both GFX companies...
please do make sure that if you are looking for a quality upgrade (though not top of the line) do not just rely on what one person or another says...
my dislike of nvidia's ridiculous PR department should be well known... even if I do actually think some of the companies products are innovative... also those of you shying away from ati products due to PR releated to bad drivers and what not... Ati does not have bad drivers... all products have their share of software issues but over the past year and half Ati has moved past the driver woes of the previous years...
end of the day... I hope that the first part of the post explained why I have a dislike for media and PR... and hopefully the second part will help upgraders get into the right market segment @ the right time to get the best product for them and the most bang for the buck...
I just want to explain a few things that may become apparent over GF FX posts from me over the next few days... sort of a summary...I have been pretty vocal about the GF FX being a disappointing product and have continually said that I thought nvidia had turned into more of a PR juggernaut than a video card manufacturer...
however let me make a few things clear...
the GF FX is (will be) a quality product according to the specs we have seen... the comdex demoed card was apparently a first revision of the pcb that will be used in the final product therefore there are likely to be changes made... and it did run stably... also the cooling device/temperatures/external power source were raising a few eyebrows... but these things are likely to be revised as well for the final product... the first object... the cooler... depends on your view point... the second and third I had a hard time with due to the press releases of nvidia leading up to the comdex debut...
HOWEVER bear in mind this was a fresh off the presses release... so to speak... what had miffed me was the claims by nvidia that the 0.13 micron process would lower temps/power consumption even with ddr II and that ATi's r300 (9700pro) was a bs card due to external power usage... obviously this is not what the company actually thinks since they have quietly integrated the same device...
further... the benches released by nvidia have basically been comparisons between the ti4600 and the nv30... widely viewed as benches beteen the 4600 and the 5800ultra... there is not one nvidia released benchmark that I have seen scouring the web that has a DIRECT comparison with an r300 based board...
there are a few other websites that have posted their own comparitive fps' and what not to show some kind of balance between the ATi product and the nvidia product... take these with a pinch of salt... you cannot rely on benches unless they are done using the same test setup... and therefore reserve judgement till the final product is released...
nvidia is claiming 30-50% improvement in performance over the r300 9700pro card... from looking @ the cards statistics and the raw numbers posted by nvidia themselves... it may be a little optimistic... but till the final product ships it is all speculation... personally... looking at the 2 pieces of hardware... I find it hard to see THAT much difference... and perhaps the overall performance delta will be closer to 15-20%... this is still in favor of the nv30 even though not a one piece of silicon has been benched independently yet... all numbers @ this stage are effectively calculated projections.. with a little marketing and PR work thrown into the mix
now for the last part... the myth about the nv31/34 products... these are neither better nor refresh versions of the nv30... the nv31 will be a lower clocked budget card... and the nv34 per what I have read so far will be an onboard gpu... perhaps on the nextgen nforce mobo's...
the nv35 is supposed to be a refresh for the nv30... when it will be available is up to conjecture... but it should be a little juicier than the nv30... rumours peg a 256bit memory pipelne
but again that is all conjecture...for GFX card related info that should help those of you looking to upgrade...
expected shipping dates now for the GF FX... it will ship enmasse probably around february next year optimistically... the nv31 and 34 products have reached tape out stages and extrapolating from that (given that nvidia historically takes about 1-2 months to finalise product and release it after tape out stage) perhaps january/february is accurate for shipping date enmasse again...
the nv30 itself should hit the shelves ib small quantities for the holiday season though the r300 products are expected to rule the roost... the r300 based radeon 9500/9500pro and the 9700 are all expected to be released around december 8th, 2002... the 9500 and 9500pro should be priced around the same level as the ti4200 which they compete with... performance of the r300 based cards is higher than related gf4 ti products... the 9700 will be priced to compete with the ti4600...
lets talk about price ranges....
the gf4 ti price range should keep slipping a little bit more... 4200 should be around 130-140 for a 4200-128mb version with agp8x from SOME retailers online... lets peg it @ 150 for sanity's sake... the 4400 perhaps around 175-180... and the 4600 possibly around the 200 dollar mark...
the r300 based cards should keep close to the levels of the gf4 ti series... the 9500 should be around 150, the 9500pro should be around 170-180, the 9700 should be a bit more than 220 perhaps 250... the 9700 pro should probably be hovering around the 300 dollar mark for the holiday season...
these prices are all PROJECTED... by me.. no one else
based on trends I have seen over the past few months and comments released by both GFX companies...please do make sure that if you are looking for a quality upgrade (though not top of the line) do not just rely on what one person or another says...
my dislike of nvidia's ridiculous PR department should be well known... even if I do actually think some of the companies products are innovative... also those of you shying away from ati products due to PR releated to bad drivers and what not... Ati does not have bad drivers... all products have their share of software issues but over the past year and half Ati has moved past the driver woes of the previous years...
end of the day... I hope that the first part of the post explained why I have a dislike for media and PR... and hopefully the second part will help upgraders get into the right market segment @ the right time to get the best product for them and the most bang for the buck...
