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so the owner of bonds ball has a poll

Perris Calderon

Moderator
Staff member
Political User
#1
ya

he asks the usual with a twist

he asks if he should keep it, aution it, give it to the hall of fame

but here's the twist

he wants to know if he should brand it with an aristerisk no matter what he does.

interesting question...what would you guys vote?

anyway, the poll is up at the cbs radio site if you want to go vote
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#5
Put it in the hall of fame, that is where it belongs. No asterisk, no nothing. Until he tests positive, it is all conjecture and speculation.
 

j79zlr

Glaanies script monkey
Political User
#7
Are you kidding, MLB has done nothing if not try to cast a shadow of doubt around BB. They would not be publicly trying to persecute him if they were covering it up.
 

kcnychief

█▄█ ▀█▄ █
Political User
#9
I'm not voting, as J said it's all speculation until he does test positive.

I'm happy for Barry, both for his accomplishments and how he has handled all the scrutiny the last few years.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty people?
 

Perris Calderon

Moderator
Staff member
Political User
#10
Are you kidding, MLB has done nothing if not try to cast a shadow of doubt around BB. They would not be publicly trying to persecute him if they were covering it up.
j79...bonds has been proven to do steroids, he claims he thought it was vitamins...it's not in doubt that he's a juicer

but the larger issue is important to consider...just about all top tier ball players are juicers...and I don't think there are too many professional baseball players even in the lower tier that have not juiced

the real problem with bonds is the records he breaks, fans don't want the records broken because of chemicals

mquire was a juicer also...and so is sosa...and a host of players that have not broken records

as far as the ball going in the hall of fame, this is the fans' ball it's not baseball's ball, these balls have always been the fans' ball, that's the contract baseball and the players agree...the fans keep them in bussiness, they risk injury when in the stands by the balls and this is their compensation...it's not baseball's ball, it's not bond's ball, it's this fans ball

if the hall of fame wants to pay or bid fair market for the ball then they should be able to get it by buying it, but surely not get it for free...absolutely no welfare for baseball...they are not some kind of charity organization, they have to pay for it

whatever this ball is worth, say 1/2 million or whatever, you cannot possibly expect this fan to take that kind of money away from his family...so he should surely not donate the ball unlesss he is a wealthy man, that would be irresponsible...and he surely shouldn't donate it to a thriving money hungry industry like baseball that would be rediculous.

as far as the asterisk...this is a gray area to me

it is his ball after all, he earned it and he owns it, the comparison however would be the same thing if I bought the mona lisa, I bought or earned or inherited the painting and it becomes mne

however I do not believe that gives me the right to destroy or deface the work of art even though I own it and even though I paid for it

I believe there are social contracts when it comes to hall mark items and I think (but am not sure) that point of view is established law, however I don't know if there is actually written or case law...I haven't researched the issue

if that's true then the question is;

"does the ball rise to the same level of importance as a recognized work of art"

I kind of think so...so I am not so sure this fan actually has the legal right to deface the item even though he does in fact own it

touchy question...however it would certainly be poetic justice if he did...the problem with that decision is two fold though

baseball would have a legitimate case to claim ownership of future hallmark balls because of what this fan did and they might win the case if this guy actually does deface the item.

now another point;

even assuming bond is not lying when he tells us he didn't know he was juicing...a stretch by any point of view but let's go there anyway

let's suppose I enter a car race, I put in higher octane fuel then I am allowed..but I claim my mechanic filled the car and I didn't know it was banned fuel

I go on to win the race

do I really win the race or when they discover I had banned fuel my record times are erased?

the answer is my record times are erased

the problem is, what if everyone in that race also used the same banned fuel..then what?

who knows

so this is not a black and white issue and as I say, the only real reason bonds is getting heat is because of the records he is breaking...records that the original holder did not juice

by the way...this can't be a racial thing since hank aron is also black.

anyway, this guy is getting as much play out of the ball as possible and he is driving up the value...seems to me like he knows what he is doing
 
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falconguard

Carbon based lifeform
Political User
#12
Hmmmmm, so if it is the Fan's balls, can we get a cross country tour to touch'em as opposed to putting them into the hall of fame. I'm sure there are a lot of baseball fans who would go nuts over the chance to touch record breaking balls.
 

falconguard

Carbon based lifeform
Political User
#14
No, send the balls cross country, after all they are our balls, are they not? Why I'd never even make the effort for baseball. Now if it was football, I would leave blood on the grass and everything.:D
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#15
Perris is right. Furthermore, he knew all along those weren't vitamins.
Either way, all conjecture until proven guilty. We are going by supposedly sealed testimony? He also didn't break any rules at the time nor has he broken any rules since even though he is probably the most tested player.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Perris Calderon

Moderator
Staff member
Political User
#16
Either way, all conjecture until proven guilty. We are going by supposedly sealed testimony? He also didn't break any rules at the time nor has he broken any rules since even though he is probably the most tested player.

there is no conhjecture

Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn’t know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.

Bonds told the federal grand jury last year that Greg Anderson, his personal trainer and childhood friend, told him the substances he used in 2003 were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by the Chronicle.
that's from the transcript which bonds does not deny, there is no conjecture

as far as I am concerned there should be a new era for records...then and now and every new record would not be considered breaking the old records
 

falconguard

Carbon based lifeform
Political User
#17
Either way, all conjecture until proven guilty. We are going by supposedly sealed testimony? He also didn't break any rules at the time nor has he broken any rules since even though he is probably the most tested player.
You mean none of baseball's rules, but there are a lot of federal rules that he broke. Who has overriding precedence? hmmm
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#18
Seriously guys, Vick was prosecuted by the Federal Government and it was immediate. Bonds would have and should have been prosecuted already had he broken any laws. There is no evidence to prosecute him therefore he hasn't been prosecuted.

Perris, there is no evidence what he used were steroids. Again, conjecture. Until someone comes forth and says yes, those substances were indeed performance enhancing drugs, we are left with nothing but allegations. The media went forth and said that the items he used were the clear and the whatever else.

Listen, I am no big fan of his, but after this many years of being the number 1 target, he has YET to be indicted OR implicated implicitly in anything but the court of public opinion and that too primarily because of his personality. He hasn't openly used drugs like Macgwire, he hasn't lied like Palmero and he hasn't admitted during stupid interviews like Giambi.

He has passed every test and CONTINUES to put up numbers, HUGE for his age.

He was a tremendous player before these allegations and continues to be quite serviceable.

As far as solid players go, Ichiro, Griffey and Jeter are my favs because they are crowd pleasers and make it look easy (like Bonds did when he was younger).
 

gonaads

Beware the G-Man
Political User
#19
No proof no foul. Geez some people sound like The Patriot around here. There are WOMD! He used steroids! No proof no nothing. This guy Marc is a moron with money. Screw him, the ball belongs in Cooperstown and if they find evidence to prove otherwise then and only them can you whine about anything and Cooperstown can then do as they wish. An asterisk, why because you assume. If you assume it only makes an ass out of you... and you. I am not assuming anything. Let the proof be show. And if not let his talent be praised. So just leave it alone. It's so pathetic how arguements start over things that can not be backed by hard evidence. In other words show links to the smoking gun.
 
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madmatt

Bow Down to the King
Political User
#20
The record is tainted because of the accusations. MLB is holding back because of how much damage such accusations have already done; e.g. Jason Giambi (admitted to usage and still playing; Bonds admitted, albeit unknowingly, and is still playing). MLB is in defense mode and unlike every major international sport/competition that isn’t afraid to be frank and strip titles (e.g. Landis).

Granted, it's a sport and there will always be the competitive edge; there always has been.

Hank Aaron will always have the record, for more reasons than one. He put up his numbers during a pitcher's era and in larger ballparks. And how old was he when he hit his last homerun? Huh? Yeah.
 

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