Power Supply / UPS Guide
- Thread starter LeeJend
- Start date
Ok but is it true that it is always consuming 125watts continuously?
haha! This was funny regarding lightning storms
I wish there was truth in labeling as it seems yours is a true UPS
Basically, a car battery like a $100 sealed optima battery (I have one in my car) and a power inverter and a trickle charger (hooked up every 2 days or so) would work and isolate you from house current and dangers of lightning and spikes completely.
haha! This was funny regarding lightning storms
I wish there was truth in labeling as it seems yours is a true UPS
Basically, a car battery like a $100 sealed optima battery (I have one in my car) and a power inverter and a trickle charger (hooked up every 2 days or so) would work and isolate you from house current and dangers of lightning and spikes completely.
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Where to start...
Lightning/surge since it's the most lethal-
All items connected to the PC must be surge protected or it won't do any good. That means the PC, the monitor, the printer, speakers, router, switches, modem (ADSL/Cable/Phone) power AND signal connection, TV input for tuner cards. A proper surge protector has a voltage limiting device (tranzorb, etc) and a trip device to open the line. You will have to manually reset the surge protector after it takes a hit.
Power drop out-
Can cause data corruption on the HD, a computer lockup (won't restart unless everything is unplugged) or possibly damage if the PSU is a cheap one. Either a battery backup system (BBS) or UPS can be used. The UPS is on all the time, the BBS depends on the PSU to hold on until it can start up. UPS and BBS are used intechangeably and should NOT be! If yo have a hefty brand name supply it should hold up long enough for a BBS to start supplying power.
Size-
A UPS or BBS has to power everything so for a gaming system that means 1000W (1500VA). You could choose to run the printer, monitor, modem, router through a quality surge protector instead of having everything on the UPS/BBS.
Price-
You pay for battery duration (minutes at full laod before it's drained), fancy stuff (LCD, USB connection to PC, number and type of data protectors [phone, DSL, cable, TV, etc), UPS vs BBS, name on the box, protection warantee.
Cost-
The batteries will wear out with time. Find out if they can be replaced, how much they cost, and how much trouble to replace them. Cheaper brands may have internal batteries that can't be replaced.
Warning-
PCs, monitors etc do not turn off. The switch on the box only puts them into low power sleep mode. To protect them when you think they are off requires a real switch. The old under the monitor combo switch panel (6 mechanical switches) and surge protectors is what I use. Everything gets plugged in through it. OFF means OFF, mechanical disconnect from the power grid.
How to Choose-
Do you need emergency fill-in?
Server, shared resources like printers/routers/switches, lot of power drop outs where you live, massive downloads, PC left on all the time for folding, etc.
If not get a switch panel/surge protector and a surge protection for all data lines into the PC and back up your data regularly. With XP and NTFS risk of data loss on a crash has gotten pretty low. I think I had some files corrupted once on a crash in the last 10 years with 3 PCs running.
PS If the UPS/BBS uses Lithium Batteries for extended fill-in the risk of it burning down your house is too great to risk. Stick with NiCd or NiMH. Don't beleive me? Talk to Sony, Dell, Lenova (aka IBM), HP, etc.
Lightning/surge since it's the most lethal-
All items connected to the PC must be surge protected or it won't do any good. That means the PC, the monitor, the printer, speakers, router, switches, modem (ADSL/Cable/Phone) power AND signal connection, TV input for tuner cards. A proper surge protector has a voltage limiting device (tranzorb, etc) and a trip device to open the line. You will have to manually reset the surge protector after it takes a hit.
Power drop out-
Can cause data corruption on the HD, a computer lockup (won't restart unless everything is unplugged) or possibly damage if the PSU is a cheap one. Either a battery backup system (BBS) or UPS can be used. The UPS is on all the time, the BBS depends on the PSU to hold on until it can start up. UPS and BBS are used intechangeably and should NOT be! If yo have a hefty brand name supply it should hold up long enough for a BBS to start supplying power.
Size-
A UPS or BBS has to power everything so for a gaming system that means 1000W (1500VA). You could choose to run the printer, monitor, modem, router through a quality surge protector instead of having everything on the UPS/BBS.
Price-
You pay for battery duration (minutes at full laod before it's drained), fancy stuff (LCD, USB connection to PC, number and type of data protectors [phone, DSL, cable, TV, etc), UPS vs BBS, name on the box, protection warantee.
Cost-
The batteries will wear out with time. Find out if they can be replaced, how much they cost, and how much trouble to replace them. Cheaper brands may have internal batteries that can't be replaced.
Warning-
PCs, monitors etc do not turn off. The switch on the box only puts them into low power sleep mode. To protect them when you think they are off requires a real switch. The old under the monitor combo switch panel (6 mechanical switches) and surge protectors is what I use. Everything gets plugged in through it. OFF means OFF, mechanical disconnect from the power grid.
How to Choose-
Do you need emergency fill-in?
Server, shared resources like printers/routers/switches, lot of power drop outs where you live, massive downloads, PC left on all the time for folding, etc.
If not get a switch panel/surge protector and a surge protection for all data lines into the PC and back up your data regularly. With XP and NTFS risk of data loss on a crash has gotten pretty low. I think I had some files corrupted once on a crash in the last 10 years with 3 PCs running.
PS If the UPS/BBS uses Lithium Batteries for extended fill-in the risk of it burning down your house is too great to risk. Stick with NiCd or NiMH. Don't beleive me? Talk to Sony, Dell, Lenova (aka IBM), HP, etc.
this is the one that I have: http://www.sourceresearch.com/cyberpower/585AVR.cfm
Just the other day - suddenly my computer and monitor just shut off. I checked the "UPS" and it will not turn on - no light. The surge plugs however, still work.
This is really confusing me:
It appears what you have matt is a battery back up. A true UPS run off the battery as the battery is also a voltage conditioner and does not switch to battery hence the term "uninterruptible"? the switch to, no matter the response time, is an interruption. A true UPS is at least $200? The industry really needs to quit fooling the public and call it what it is. "Switch to" is not "uninterruptible"
LeeJend, from what I've been reading Lightning can jump/arc right past the "protection" the only way is to unplug your computer. when something that draws heavy power in the house I do notice light with dim momentarily.
Really, is running an Optima battery through a voltage inverter such a bad idea? I sure would get a hell of a long run time out of a car battery and it's completely isolated from the house until I charge it. I can run my cable phone line (I run a caller ID with my computer) through my broken BBS or another protective source.
I can get a deep cycle Optima and this power inverter: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1698830&CatId=0
It would be a MONSTER UPS.
I think surge protection should be built into all homes.
I'm so sick of companies leaving specs out so you can't compare.
Just the other day - suddenly my computer and monitor just shut off. I checked the "UPS" and it will not turn on - no light. The surge plugs however, still work.
This is really confusing me:
It appears what you have matt is a battery back up. A true UPS run off the battery as the battery is also a voltage conditioner and does not switch to battery hence the term "uninterruptible"? the switch to, no matter the response time, is an interruption. A true UPS is at least $200? The industry really needs to quit fooling the public and call it what it is. "Switch to" is not "uninterruptible"
LeeJend, from what I've been reading Lightning can jump/arc right past the "protection" the only way is to unplug your computer. when something that draws heavy power in the house I do notice light with dim momentarily.
Really, is running an Optima battery through a voltage inverter such a bad idea? I sure would get a hell of a long run time out of a car battery and it's completely isolated from the house until I charge it. I can run my cable phone line (I run a caller ID with my computer) through my broken BBS or another protective source.
I can get a deep cycle Optima and this power inverter: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1698830&CatId=0
It would be a MONSTER UPS.
I think surge protection should be built into all homes.
\
I'm so sick of companies leaving specs out so you can't compare.
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- Joined
- 5 Apr 2002
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When the power fails; it goes right to battery and allows me to continue using my system uninterrupted. Granted, this unit is not top of the line but for the cost it does the job and offers me full protection against surge, dirty power, voltage regulation, etc.
any "switch to" would be a millisecond lag wouldn't it? Unless perhaps it has a power supply which maintains voltage while it's switching. Tigerdirect classifies it as a battery backup. Unless the technology changed it's not uninterrupted. Using your system uninterrupted is different that uninterrupted power. If I unplug my computer for a millisecond and plug it back in, windows would still be operating but there would be a momentary power loss.
Do any of these have an external battery option? It would be great to be able to hook up a car battery but then I might as well go with a power inverter. It would be great to be able to watch a movie if the power goes out.
Does anyone have an opinion of going the car battery and inverter route instead? Of course it would be necessary to keep a watch on voltage and there is no automatic alarm or shutdown to tell me voltage is low so I would have to rig up a meter to keep track of it.
Hell, I might as well get a generator but they are expensive.
Do any of these have an external battery option? It would be great to be able to hook up a car battery but then I might as well go with a power inverter. It would be great to be able to watch a movie if the power goes out.
Does anyone have an opinion of going the car battery and inverter route instead? Of course it would be necessary to keep a watch on voltage and there is no automatic alarm or shutdown to tell me voltage is low so I would have to rig up a meter to keep track of it.
Hell, I might as well get a generator but they are expensive.
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I wouldn't count on the reseller (and I never do... I always check the manufacturer's site) having accurate information. There is no lag when the power goes out.
The TrippLite SmartPro 1000LCD is classified as an UPS.
The TrippLite SmartPro 1000LCD is classified as an UPS.
Admiral Michael
OSNN Veteran Addict
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2003
- Messages
- 3,123
I wouldnt go the car battery and inverter route. The solution seems silly to me, just go any buy a UPS.
What exactly is so "silly"? I am a DIY. I built my own computer and I fix my home appliances myself.
A UPS IS a battery, an inverter, and a charger built into an ABS case. You are paying top dollar for them to put it all in one case. A true UPS runs off the battery through an inverter (many are not pure sine wave that is why you can't run a laser printer) and is a clean power source. Only you get a tiny 12 volt battery that lasts only minutes when the charger loses power. A deep cycle car battery would last many hours.
Hehe googlesearch: http://www.pcanswer.com/articles/sb__powerbackup.htm he could just run it straight from the power pack bypassing his ups.
This would be an expensive battery back up (below) but a poorman's true UPS could be a power inverter here http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=237& plus I already have an automatic 12v trickle charger
CR Inverter/Charger
Affordable backup power solution
The entry-level CR Series provides AC power without interruption to keep your critical equipment running during a power outage. Built with an automatic transfer switch, the CR instantly switches to battery power during a blackout or brownout. When AC power is restored it automatically recharges the battery. Available in 1000, 1500 and 2400 watt models, it is ideal for powering common loads such as refrigerators, computers, lights, small televisions, radios and fans.
Description
The CR Series combines the key benefits of uninterruptible power supplies with the extra runtime allowed by a larger battery bank. Backup power time is flexible – you can connect as many batteries as you need.
Features
* Automatic, fast transfer ensures no intermittent loss of power to your critical loads
* Built-in battery charging ensures batteries are fully charged and ready to use,
while protecting them from being overcharged
* Low and high battery voltage and overload protection circuitry
* Audible alarms to indicate low battery voltage, overload, and fault conditions
* Front panel LED indicators to provide status-at-a-glance
According to tigerdirect and by definition, if it isn't using the battery as a constant source, it's a "UPS battery backup" There is no switching to another power source with a true UPS - hence, no interruption.madmatt said:
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I ordered this one it's a dollar less than Amazon due to no tax and shipping: http://www.buy.com/prod/Tripp_Lite_...VA_120V_SMART1000LCD/q/loc/227/201949534.html
One of these days, I will build my own or rig an external Optima or dry cell automotive battery to this BBS/UPS.
One of these days, I will build my own or rig an external Optima or dry cell automotive battery to this BBS/UPS.
New Info 2-2007
Not all power supplies labeled a certain brand are made by that company.
Check out this artical:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/370
Particularly interesting was the Antec Neo line with power supplies being manufactured by Seasonic, not by Antec. That explains why I've seen a lot of substandard Neo line power supplies compared to the Antec Truepower which are made by Antec.
New advice:
Get the UR number off the PSU label and check it at the UL web site to see if it is really the brand you are paying for.
And even better. Check the UR number on any "cheapie" power supplies you are looking at. They may turn out to be a hidden gen made by a good name company and sold as OEM.
Not all power supplies labeled a certain brand are made by that company.
Check out this artical:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/370
Particularly interesting was the Antec Neo line with power supplies being manufactured by Seasonic, not by Antec. That explains why I've seen a lot of substandard Neo line power supplies compared to the Antec Truepower which are made by Antec.
New advice:
Get the UR number off the PSU label and check it at the UL web site to see if it is really the brand you are paying for.
And even better. Check the UR number on any "cheapie" power supplies you are looking at. They may turn out to be a hidden gen made by a good name company and sold as OEM.
Can't believe I missed this thread until now 
Great thread. Nice UPS info Lee. +reps
Reading AM's post above reminded me of the minefield I wandered last time I bought a new PSU.
I found the following list to be a real help in sorting the wheat from the chaff.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088
Figured it may help someone else. It has a tiered system, and where possible, models have been tiered as opposed to brands.
Although the list has not updated for a while, the thread is still current, and it is still a useful list for today's PSU market.
As stated above, there are some real gems to be found hidden away under an OEM guise.
I've posted this in another thread here, but it deserves a place here too methinks
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Useful for determining what kind of load you might generate with existing components/proposed upgrades/new builds.
Great thread. Nice UPS info Lee. +reps
Reading AM's post above reminded me of the minefield I wandered last time I bought a new PSU.
I found the following list to be a real help in sorting the wheat from the chaff.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088
Figured it may help someone else. It has a tiered system, and where possible, models have been tiered as opposed to brands.
Although the list has not updated for a while, the thread is still current, and it is still a useful list for today's PSU market.
As stated above, there are some real gems to be found hidden away under an OEM guise.
I've posted this in another thread here, but it deserves a place here too methinks
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Useful for determining what kind of load you might generate with existing components/proposed upgrades/new builds.
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- Joined
- 10 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 975
This part right here helped me a lot. I always wondered on this. Thanks Lee.
Its really great and worth to reading who really dont know about UPS and new in this filed. I found this thread very much informative as I am also new in this industries and trying to learn and know some thing new...
Thanks a lot buddy for the nice post.
Thanks a lot buddy for the nice post.
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- Joined
- 10 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 975
I'm actually in the process of thinking about getting a pure sine wave UPS. Will be good for my ANTEC CP-1000 I'm going to upgrade to.
C
charles29
Guest
Yeah, thank you for sharing, I just need to purchase a UPS
http://www.wholesaleonelectronics.com/camcorders/
http://www.wholesaleonelectronics.com/camcorders/
H
hfdewees
Guest
my wife's UPS just died. Started beeping and all kinds of noises, so she's on a power strip in the meantime I'm looking for something new. Thanks for the info!
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