Mozilla fireBird Thread.

[Perris Calderon]

great tweak page you sent to me gonaads

i see now why the scroll sucked, and I'm fixing that

also, I see why ie pages are displayed sooner the pheonix pages, so I'm fixing that too

the pipelining might be why I got so manay bad pages in the past, so I'll hold off on that one

thanx again for the link

 

[xsivforce]

*washes hands*

 

[NetRyder]

Originally posted by dealer
but no on the next site

from the very link you provided netryder, here is the proof for the nt kernal
ie results

TopFive Windows/NT, Internet Explorer
1 Gary Browne, Explorer 6x, Windows XP, 2GHz or higher 2.95 seconds, Aug 17, at 12:51:02

2 Gary Browne, Explorer 6x, Windows XP, 2GHz or higher 2.97 seconds, Aug 29, at 23:29:15

3 noname, Explorer 5x, Windows 2000, 99 MHz or lower 4.31 seconds, Aug 20, at 16:18:01

4 reno, Explorer 6x, Windows 2000, 1.80 - 1.89GHz 4.33 seconds, Aug 26, at 14:05:33

5 bapsack, Explorer 5x, Windows 2000, 2GHz or higher 4.6 seconds, Aug 25, at 12:08:38

now the netscape


TopFive Windows/NT, Netscape Navigator
1 t, Netscape 6x, Windows 2000, 2GHz or higher 4.36 seconds, Aug 18, at 13:59:17

2 noname, Netscape 6x, Windows XP, 2GHz or higher 5.35 seconds, Sept 4, at 00:46:04

3 dee, Netscape 6x, Windows 2000, 1.60 - 1.69GHz 5.89 seconds, Aug 25, at 08:15:13

4 noname, Netscape 6x, Windows 2000, 1.80 - 1.89GHz 6.73 seconds, Aug 18, at 17:09:04

5 noname, Netscape 6x, Windows 2000, 1.00 - 1.09GHz 7.58 seconds, Aug 19, at 04:09:03

and opera

TopFive Windows/NT, Opera
1 ShannoW, Opera, Windows XP, 2GHz or higher 3.97 seconds, Sept 3, at 12:26:10

2 ShannoW, Opera, Windows XP, 2GHz or higher 4.06 seconds, Sept 3, at 12:24:48

3 noname, Opera, Windows 2000, 2GHz or higher 4.14 seconds, Aug 18, at 17:47:12

4 xtc, Opera, Windows XP, 1.50 - 1.59GHz 4.37 seconds, Aug 21, at 05:45:37

5 OPERAAAAA, Opera, Windows XP, 1.50 - 1.59GHz 4.53 seconds, Aug 27, at 08:49:06


so on this site, internet explorer is the clear favorite on the nt kernal and my personal experience is demonstrated with these stats

The top-five results are really not something you can go by. Taking an average of several results is the real scientific method of determining such things. One person can always be the odd man out in such tests. It's the average that matters.

And if you look at my earlier post, Netscape (Gecko) has a lower average than IE.

 

[NetRyder]

Originally posted by dealer
but before I go, I'll point out that using the pheonix, and closing down my internet explorere is using about ten more mbs of memory then ie does

That's quite obvious, isn't it - thanks to Microsoft's unethical marketing strategies, IE has been integrated into the operating system. The memory usage you see in Task Manager next to IEXPLORE.exe is not the total amount of memory IE is actually using. EXPLORER.exe and other core files also contain parts of IE's memory allocation.

Originally posted by dealer
this will slow down any box down, and that's important for over all performance,

I'm quite surprised at that statement, since you are clearly an advocate of "using memory where required" (as seen by your replies in most pagefile threads). How much RAM does your system contain, Perris? I have 512MB in my laptop, and 296MB is free with Firebird (5 tabs open too), Outlook 2003, Explorer, AIM, MSN, Norton, Kerio, and several other background applications. 296 MB free for the system's use? Do you seriously believe there is a system slowdown with that much physical memory available??

Originally posted by dealer
since my internet explorre is tweaked out, this isn't a fair comparison on my part until I tweak ou the bird

With that said, Firebird still took the crown in both tests on your system as well. Does that say something?

 

[gonaads]

I'm baaaaaack... Hmmmmmmmm, looks da same. *leaves*

 

[gonaads]

I need comedy!

 

[NetRyder]

Hehe quite honestly, the only reason I posted in this thread was to dispel the myth that IE has a faster rendering engine than Gecko. Benchmarks don't mean a thing to me. I've never bothered with apps like 3DMark or PCMark. I only posted the above benchmark results because "feeling" that one browser is faster than the other is entirely subjective.

I'm not here to force Perris into using Firebird. I've had a very, very long discussion with a school friend on this matter, in which I clearly outlined why I prefer the Firebird browser - both as an end user and a web developer. But I'm not going to post that excerpt here until I feel the absolute need to dispel any other "myths." People have posted numerous reasons why they prefer the Firebird browser. My post would be a culmination of all those reasons, with some other points that I've not seen posted before.
Anyways, what you use is just a matter of personal preference. Use what you feel comfortable with. Don't push your opinions down other people's throats. Let Gecko discussions remain Gecko discussions. Let IE discussions remain IE discussions. Stop comparing the two at every chance you get.

I don't think it's worth my time posting anymore hard facts until I see anything substantial posted from the other side. I find it quite pointless countering undocumented statements, so it's goodbye thread for now

 

[Perris Calderon]

ie outperformed on the second site

but none of this is the point, as this is exactly what I said I would discover for myself

point being this discusson concerning performance should have been rendered where it began...for all to see...it's a shame if pheonix beats ie, that those members won't see it

oh well, I'll make sure they do...I',m sure speedy won't close down that thead if it happens
when I have practical page loading tests finnished, instead of the java rendering that these sites render, I'll show my results

so far, one page has the bird, the next page has ie

and this is where I left off al long time ago...with both browsers performing too close to call


I'll finnish after aI tweak the bird

 

[NetRyder]

Well, I wouldn't mind having all of my above posts in public. The thing is, just like SPeedY, I don't want to have this discussion in a thread that was discussing Firebird nightly builds.

Start a new thread for the browser wars, and I'll gladly participate in a solid discussion. Who knows...it could become the next "Really Long thread"

 

[NetRyder]

Originally posted by dealer
ie outperformed on the second site

[...]

so far, one page has the bird, the next page has ie

Read my post:
http://www.ntfs.org/forum/showthread.php?postid=339809#post339809

 

[Perris Calderon]

I don't want to have this discussion in a thread that was discussing Firebird nightly build

now you're sounding like speedy netryder.

I didn't take that thread off topic, I commented after it was taken off topic by yourselfs

speedy didn't like the statements made going challenged

I stand by this statement as I told speedy

claims will not be made and go imune from challenge on any tech site

and that's not gonna happen on this site while I'm a member

I know you don't ahve a problem with that, but it seems there are members that want imunity from counter points

sorry


it doesn't matter one bit if you don't want the statements challenged

they will be challenged never the less

maybe the statemnet will prove true, maybe not, but they will not go unchallenged

 

[gonaads]

FLASH! LATE BREAKING NEWS...

 

[Perris Calderon]

gonaads, while you're here, could you tell me how to make this bird look like it is the ie browser to other sites?

gonna need that I suppose

I got the bird tweaked out, and it's definately better then it was without tweaks

pages are readable much sooner, like they were with ie, and there's no lag like there was before

also, I did not enable pipelining yet, as that might be the site trouble I had the last time I tried this browser.

also, I need the following

I need to know how this so that it doesn't have to find addresses everytime I go to a link that I've visited before

that will catch it up to the internet explorere with that fastnet99 that I ahve going

all told, thesed pages are loading to my experience as fast as the internet explorer

and as told before

pheonix is a clear winner in that java test that netryder posted.

on the other hand, ie opened your attachment instantly

bird was pretty slow

have you posted this before?, cuase the way ie opened it, it seemed like it was in cache

(I'm on my very slow pcs modem right now, witha weak sgnal, about 12k)

 

[gonaads]

I think the second thing yer askin fer is in the "tools". Click "tools" on the top bar and an "options" window opens. Select what you want and play from there.

 

[gonaads]

You could also try this...

Speed up page rendering

By default, Mozilla Firebird doesn't try to render a web page for 250 milliseconds, because it's waiting for data. If you add the code below to your user.js file, Mozilla Firebird immediately tries to render the page, even without complete data. The drawback is on slower machines where doing a "reflow" may actually cause the total page load time to be longer.

• // This one makes a huge difference. Last value in milliseconds (default is 250)
  user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);

That is from here:

http://texturizer.net/firebird/tips.html#oth_rendering

Read this whole page to understand all the options:

http://texturizer.net/firebird/options.html

 

[NetRyder]

The user agent switcher extension can be downloaded from:
http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firebird/useragentswitcher/

This will allow Firebird to emulate the UA of IE, Opera, etc.

 

[Perris Calderon]

thanx netryder, got it...that's gonna come in handy if I'm going to stay with this browser

I might too

thanx gonaads, ya, I allready created those fixes whe you sent me the link the first time

now, as far as the java test on that first page speedy posted

I was on my pcs connection with a very bad reception

getting at most 35k

both with that connection, and with my pretty fast dsl now, going about 600 k

wth both of these connections the results were identical in every fasion

pheonix getting identical numbers as it was on slow connection

ie getting identical numbers as well

you guys try it on a dialup and then compare on broadband...identical...hmm

pheonix always surpassed ie, btw

so this page is an internal measure of your computer, not a measure of an internet download whatsoever

I don't understand what that test does, but it does not test internet traffic in any fasion, and browsing speed is not measured by that test

that test is mute in this discussion

I'll do the second page speedy posted now that the tweaks oare up on moizilla...

I'll post those later today

 

[Perris Calderon]

now this test was quite a surprise;

my results went along with the sites statictics...ie outperformed as an overall number

I deliberatly post an image where ie was the winner on only the first of five catagory tests, yet still comes up with an overall best number...interesting

when I read the page, it looked to me like ie could not possibly fair well on this site, as this site was testing forms that I was sure ie has not developed support due to that court ruling

so I had supreme surprise when ie out performed pheonix over all as a general number

though to be fair, the mo was the winner every time on two out of five of these tests

ie was the clear winner every time on only one of the five catagories.

the other tests were close but ie lost often enough to give pause

surprising that the first test ie was always so much faster that typically it beat pheonix as an over all number

my tests were done every time clearing temp files and cookies

 

[Perris Calderon]

and now I lost my ie favorites option

anyone know how to get that back?

 

[NetRyder]

Interesting how the results vary in the second test.
Are you using the milestone 0.6.1 build? I'm using the official 20030903 nightly. Just ran the tests again, and came up with this as the individual results:

Firebird:
TEST 1 time: 9.765 sec.
TEST 2 time: 1.092 sec.
TEST 3 time: 1.633 sec.
TEST 4 time: 0.611 sec.
TEST 5 time: 0.41 sec.
>> Result: 13.51 seconds

IE 6:
TEST 1 time: 8.903 sec.
TEST 2 time: 2.754 sec.
TEST 3 time: 1.091 sec.
TEST 4 time: 1.332 sec.
TEST 5 time: 0.851 sec.
>> Result: 14.93 seconds

Oh well...