[Movie Review] War of the Worlds *SPOILERS*

Perris: for one, the solenoid problem, to me, was acceptable, especially considering the original didn't have ANYTHING damaging happen to the cars. the main character in the original kinda just went and found another car that mystically worked. also, they WOULDN'T have been able to learn about the immunities and stuff like that if they were here aeon's ago (same word..... i jus like the way it looks with the "a" better), then how would they have been able to know about the bacteria that WE brought about. they probably didn't die from bacteria that was here when they would have first came. And about the force fields...... i guess you didn't really like Independence Day then, since then they made the ship itself sick with a virus to bring down the force fields? The force fields may have been created by the aliens themselves..... or maybe from them getting sick, they couldn't move around too easily to activate the force fields in time or something.......
 
ElementalDragon said:
Perris: for one, the solenoid problem, to me, was acceptable, especially considering the original didn't have ANYTHING damaging happen to the cars. the main character in the original kinda just went and found another car that mystically worked. also, they WOULDN'T have been able to learn about the immunities and stuff like that if they were here aeon's ago (same word..... i jus like the way it looks with the "a" better), then how would they have been able to know about the bacteria that WE brought about. they probably didn't die from bacteria that was here when they would have first came. And about the force fields...... i guess you didn't really like Independence Day then, since then they made the ship itself sick with a virus to bring down the force fields? The force fields may have been created by the aliens themselves..... or maybe from them getting sick, they couldn't move around too easily to activate the force fields in time or something.......
I guess these aliens then never harvested another planet and that's why they never ran into an imunity problem before?

we must be the first, that's why they never ran into these problems in the past...as far as the force feild, I already said they could have come up with something to explain the problem, but they need to make mention

[p.s. solonoid doesn't fly...they need to do better...we are more sophisticated then the pubic was when the original was released]

anyway, that's why I thought this movie needed more work...it's some of why I didn't enjoy it...you guys liked it...just differant opinions
 
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celticfan11 said:
a bad solinoid will cause a car to not start. How is that unfeasable?
the aliens sent a pulse intended to dissable all of the vehicles...the solonoid starts a car, it has nothing to do with the car once it's running..do you think the pulse was designed so only the solonoid would be affected?

is there a solonoid in a watch or lights that didn't work?
 
Sazar said:
He's been infected with the IMDB virus :D

Must bring him back to the fold before the evil aliens get him.

:laugh:

perris,

As to the bacteria and immunities, that wouldn't be unfeasible... Depending on how many aeons ago they had been here; the microbes we have developed immunity to might not have been here.

When Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago, the surface was too hot for liquid water, and no life (at least as we know it would have been possible). I'd have to look at it again, but the planet might still have been bombarded by asteroids (which was heating it up) and definitely would not have had the atmosphere of today...

It's generally thought (though perhaps I could check the dates) that life hadn't begun here until about 2.1 billion years ago or so. There was a time when there was no life...

Now, moving up to more recent times; bacteria can evolve a lot faster then other organisms. This is due to

- a prolific species who's generation exists in a relatively short period of time (about as long as it takes them to undergo cellular mitosis)

- prokariotes don't have mechanisms in their DNA to "correct" erroring copies made of their DNA, making genetic mutations an order of magnitude more likely to occur in a prokariotic cell (aka single celled organism), then in a eukariotic cell.

- Also worth mentioning, a mutation in something other then the sex cell of a multi-celled organism isn't likely to get passed onto the next generation. With single celled organisms, it will...

- Bacteria can also pick up DNA from other bacteria surrounding it. AKA, beside it's bacterial chromosome, it has small pieces of plasmid DNA it can pick up which becomes a part of the cell upon "ingestion" of it...

Putting it altogether, bacteria can evolve and change faster then we can. And without knowing how it evolved... In a much shorter period of time a cold virus of flu bug (OK they're viruses, not bacteria) can mutate to something that can make us sick once again, though strain from a year ago we developed a resistance too.

On the bacterial front, just look at how fast bacteria has developed resistence to anti-biotics (aka super strains) and also what happens when a person travels abroad (without immunization) and is exposed to an organism their immune system hasn't yet developed an immunity too.
 
Son Goku said:
:laugh:

perris,

As to the bacteria and immunities, that wouldn't be unfeasible... Depending on how many aeons ago they had been here; the microbes we have developed immunity to might not have been here.

When Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago, the surface was too hot for liquid water, and no life (at least as we know it would have been possible). I'd have to look at it again, but the planet might still have been bombarded by asteroids (which was heating it up) and definitely would not have had the atmosphere of today...

It's generally thought (though perhaps I could check the dates) that life hadn't begun here until about 2.1 billion years ago or so. There was a time when there was no life...

Now, moving up to more recent times; bacteria can evolve a lot faster then other organisms. This is due to

- a prolific species who's generation exists in a relatively short period of time (about as long as it takes them to undergo cellular mitosis)

- prokariotes don't have mechanisms in their DNA to "correct" erroring copies made of their DNA, making genetic mutations an order of magnitude more likely to occur in a prokariotic cell (aka single celled organism), then in a eukariotic cell.

- Also worth mentioning, a mutation in something other then the sex cell of a multi-celled organism isn't likely to get passed onto the next generation. With single celled organisms, it will...

- Bacteria can also pick up DNA from other bacteria surrounding it. AKA, beside it's bacterial chromosome, it has small pieces of plasmid DNA it can pick up which becomes a part of the cell upon "ingestion" of it...

Putting it altogether, bacteria can evolve and change faster then we can. And without knowing how it evolved... In a much shorter period of time a cold virus of flu bug (OK they're viruses, not bacteria) can mutate to something that can make us sick once again, though strain from a year ago we developed a resistance too.

On the bacterial front, just look at how fast bacteria has developed resistence to anti-biotics (aka super strains) and also what happens when a person travels abroad (without immunization) and is exposed to an organism their immune system hasn't yet developed an immunity too.
so you're saying we're the first planet they've harvested?

don't forget, these aliens actually put the g-nome in motion, that's why they came back for the harvest, so they had the entire evolution process figured into the equation
 
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If a lot of evolution is the result of random chance and probability; it might not be entirely possible to predict every possible outcome, with every possible species, from the beginning...

Even our immune systems (that which allows us to survive) can take time to develop immunity to a given organism. Move from an area and return a couple decades latter, there can be strains we aren't equiped to deal with.

And that said, we've run into diseases (Bubonic plague, AIDS, ebola, for instance) which our immune systems have been ill equiped to respond to without medical intervention.

Actually, speaking of black death, this I did not know

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic428.htm
 
Son Goku said:
If a lot of evolution is the result of random chance and probability; it might not be entirely possible to predict every possible outcome, with every possible species, from the beginning...

Even our immune systems (that which allows us to survive) can take time to develop immunity to a given organism. Move from an area and return a couple decades latter, there can be strains we aren't equiped to deal with.

And that said, we've run into diseases (Bubonic plague, AIDS, ebola, for instance) which our immune systems have been ill equiped to respond to without medical intervention.

Actually, speaking of black death, this I did not know

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic428.htm
we're the only planet with microbes?

it's not feasable to me that we're the only planet that gave them an imunity issue...especially since they obviously have the whole evolution process worked out...plague and disease play impotant roles in evolution

to me that's a huge technical problem that needs to be resolved in the script and that was one of the the many things I had trouble tolerating with this movie
 
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To each their own when it comes to liking or not liking something... The immunity problem here is something that did fit in Orwell's vision however.

Biologically, I do find some merit though, and merit that we would need to think about if we were to begin going to other planets. In fact, in the field of asto-biology they're considering life forms that might we really alien to us. Based on (in part) the finding of organisms that live in extreme conditions here on Earth (aka Death Valley and the volcanic vents at the bottom of the oceans), the definition of what constitutes life has also been broadened.

The question for some is "would we recognize alien life if we saw it"? "What if it is too alien, and might not look alive to us at first glance"? There was a program on Discovery channel sometime back, Cosmic Safari or something of the sort... They were also considering (hypothetically) what sorts of organisms could live on a Jupiter sized planet (we've found)

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1642.html

BTW, the organisms at the volcanic vents on the ocean floor are not photosynthetic in any way (couldn't be, too far from the sun), and use sulfur in place of oxygen in their bio-chemical makeup...

http://www.astrobio.net/articles/hydrogen.html

That's not the organisms I mentioned, but another such discovery. I'll need to search further for those I mentioned at the ocean floor. Got class shortly, gotta book :D
 
Found some of the stuff I was looking for

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_vogt.html

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Ec&Ev_Distance_learning/ExtremeEnvironments/extreme_text.htm

Our understanding of the breadth, depth, and highest of life on earth has been greatly advanced over the past years in great part by the search for extraterrestrial life (alien life on other worlds). Just a few years ago, most biologists believed that conditions for the development and sustenance of life had very narrow limits, requiring Earth-like temperature, weather, and general environmental conditions. The biosphere was described as a thin skin on the Earth's surface (Fig. 1) in whose narrow limits life could exist. Outside these limits life was thought to be impossible by most biologists.

...This report did get the mainstream biologists thinking that their ideas of life's requirements may be entirely too narrow. Interest arose in organisms that live in extreme environments: in hot springs, very cold climates, under high pressure, in high temperatures, or in chemically unfriendly environments (acid, salty, methane, etc.). Although known about for several years, the Martian meteorite report renewed interest in the deep sea vent communities clustered around volcanic vents deep on the ocean floor. Chemicals issuing from the volcanic vents feed bacteria that are then fed upon by other members of the community including crabs and peculiar tube worms (Fig 11). The search for extremophylls was on (organisms that prefer extreme environments).

The funny thing about all of this, is that the reality might end up being far stranger, and a lot more varied/different, then some of the science fiction on the matter.

As to how it might evolve (if current theories of evolution hold), and given unpredictable events (such as the meteor that is believed to have whipped out the dinosaurs and caused mass extinctions), I'm not sure how well this could be predicted comming back a billion or so years latter...
 
Perris,

It was a mutated form of the Avian flu virus...


There! Happy?
 
falconguard said:
Perris,

It was a mutated form of the Avian flu virus...


There! Happy?
now I'm satisfied

sun said:
The immunity problem here is something that did fit in Orwell's vision however.
in that version of war of the worlds we were invaded not harvested...I could live with the virus thing if we were invaded because it might be conceivable we would be the first planet that the alien race invaded, or conceivable that we evolved differantly then other worlds they invaded

however in this version, the alien race seeded the planet to evolve human beings...they would have to have a proper knowledge if evolution and that would have to include disease, infection and variables.

this has to be resolved in the script....something as simple as saying that we were ahead of schedule according to their formula and ahead of any other planet they've harvested prior...since they were in the neighborhood they might as well stop by, or they rushed to harvest us before our technological advancements made it impossible...that would indicate that things weren't going according to their plan.

it's an easy issue to resolve but they didn't...just like the solenoid thing with the car...pretty much any mechanic that understood how a pulse would have be designed to take out electronics would laugh at the "replace the solinoid" excuse

I was backround (an extra) in a Robert Redford movie called "legal eagles"

came a scene where Robert was using a hanger to get into a car that the keys were left inside.

so I go over to the director and tell him that the hanger has to have a hook on the end and it should be looped so that it won't bend out of shape when you pull it.

he tells me not to worry, they won't be showing the end of the hanger in the final edit.

they did, it looks ridiculous to anyone that has had the pleasure of breaking into a car.

this immunity issue I think would look pretty foolish to people in the medical Field (yes, I was studying medicine in college)
 
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I don't understand why the solenoid thinger is such a big deal? I understand that the camera is a sticking point, and a valid one but it is part of the marketing blitz for the movie. The same camera was appearing for weeks before the movie came out in ads.

Wrt the solenoid, I don't understand why it is such a big deal? In movie terms it is more feasible than explosive decompression or a body flying back when struck by a bullet

Omega's generally use kinetic movement to power them for the most part, especially if it is the watch used in the ads (a la the camera).

I think the problems you have with the movie are a lot like the flaws I find in movies like Kingdom of Heaven and others but I don't quite understand how you can fault a movie for staying true to a book for the most part?
 
Sazar said:
I don't understand why the solenoid thinger is such a big deal? I understand that the camera is a sticking point, and a valid one but it is part of the marketing blitz for the movie. The same camera was appearing for weeks before the movie came out in ads.

Wrt the solenoid, I don't understand why it is such a big deal? In movie terms it is more feasible than explosive decompression or a body flying back when struck by a bullet

Omega's generally use kinetic movement to power them for the most part, especially if it is the watch used in the ads (a la the camera).

I think the problems you have with the movie are a lot like the flaws I find in movies like Kingdom of Heaven and others but I don't quite understand how you can fault a movie for staying true to a book for the most part?
first, I'm only reporting a few of the things that made me hate the movie...if you guys find my issues acceptable, to each their own

as far as I'm concerned, the solenoid is a much bigger deal then the camera...it's possible the camera had both the batteries and the internal batteries dissabled during the pulse, possbily no damage done...then added batteries after the pulse

the solenoid being the cause of cars stalling is impossible, and replacing the solinoid couldn't possibly resolve the issues that these cars were having

the solinoid is only activated when you start a car...blowing the solinoid would in no way stop a car while it was running.

there are a few hundred items in a car that would be affected by the pulse..fixing the solinoid would reduce the few hundred items to be fixed by about one

as far as the omega watch, that was my point,,,if it was an automatic or as you say powered by kinietic energy stored in tension from steel, a pulse wouldn't afect the watch...that was my point

as far as staying true to the book...in the book were the aliens invaders or harvestors?

this war of the worlds, the aliens aren't invading earth at all, they inhabited the planet before we even evolved.

this is a remake...if the aliens were invaders as they were in the first movie I wouldn't have the problem techmically that I have with them coming here eons ago and waiting for evolution to take ist's course

that was the culmination of the things I found wrong with the movie..they needed to set up why this planet was differant then the other planets they've harvested...why microbes here and nowhere else?

there are plenty of scenario's to explain the problem...in my book the issue needed to be addressed

call me a pick nick
 
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perris said:
however in this version, the alien race seeded the planet to evolve human beings...they would have to have a proper knowledge if evolution and that would have to include disease, infection and variables.

One can have some knowledge, but that doesn't mean that everything will occur according to plan, or that a plan as long ranged as aeons could necessarily, and unmistakeably be worked out.

With all our knowledge in meteorology we can't predict the weather with a great deal of accuracy beyond a few days or a week. What this amounts to is that with some certainty we can give a fairly good account for what the weather might be tomarrow afternoon. But move too far into the future, and the predictions can go to pot.

Much like the weather, evolutions on a planet would not fit in line with a carefully controlled experiment (such as in the lab) where everything can be locked down, only 1 variable can be isolated, and one could predict from one given unknown (aka what DNA sequence they would have seeded the planet with) exactly what would happen.

Go away for many aeons, don't continue to exert certain control over the system, and things won't necessarily fit a given pre-conceived plan. If we were to begin terraforming Mars for instance, seeded the planet with soem microbes (forgetting for a moment questions of whether there is microscopic life present in some places on Mars already), were to then leave the planet for a billion years or something. Our descendents shouldn't be surprised if the end results weren't exactly what we predicted.

The problem would be too many unknowns, and a system (which we would have for all intents and purposes abandoned) after giving it some initial DNA/organisms. What we could not necessarily say is:

- How exactly that DNA will mutate, and how these mutations will effect future evolution on the given planet.

- What climatic changes will necessarily occur (especially if it were a young world in a currently developing solar system), and how these will change conditions for the evolving species.

- What extraterrestrial events (baring our own) would necessarily hit it...aka asteroid strikes, possibility for mass level extinctions.

- How exactly the forming life will react to those specific conditions (which might not be entirely predictable to begin with).

Given this, and given that a planet and a given biosphere is hardly a clinical environment that could be kept under tight control (such as in an experiment), especially by aliens who didn't stick around to "influence things" when something got off course; I just don't see it as a reasonable expectation to think they could micromanage exactly what would result.

An initial organism or bit of DNA is just that. But considering evolution, it isn't an unchanging constant...
 
my only point is that they've done this before...you are presuming there are only imunity variables on earth?...they've never run into an imunity problem before?

that's my only point as far as this technical issue
 
I just remembered something in regards to the solenoid. I'm 98% sure (having seen it 3 times!) that the mechanic said he had already replaced the starter and that didn't fix it. Then he changed the solenoid and that did the trick. Also, that car was not running when the pulses happened since it was being worked on to begin with. To clear up that "hole" my guess is that the combination of a new starter and solenoid fixed it, along with the fact that the car wasn't running at the time.

Interesting discussion, though. Nothing wrong with picking apart movies for their apparent flaws. :)
 
perris said:
my only point is that they've done this before...you are presuming there are only imunity variables on earth?...they've never run into an imunity problem before?

that's my only point as far as this technical issue

No, I'm not saying one way or another whether immunity would be an issue on another planet. I'm saying that under different circumstances, life would not necessarily evolve on another planet the same way it did here. Further, given what we have learned of organisms in extreme environments here on Earth, some ecosystems (such as the volcanic vents), life evolved very differently. There is no reason to assume that all alien worlds have to be Earth like, or that all aliens would necessarily have to be "like us". As such the issues run into could be quite different.

Given whatever circumstances that existed while life was forming elsewhere, things might have in fact formed quite different. And that isn't to mention that some changes in historical facts (that wouldn't have to occur for all species the way it out played on Earth), the civilizations might have developed/evolved along entirely different lines as well...

I'm also saying that given the number of variables and unknowns, it is not nececarily reasonable to expect that an evolution seeding another planet with primordial life would necessarily know all that would transpire on that world for all time to come. Knoweldge concerning certain scientific principles doesn't make one a mystic or a prophet.

For whatever scientific knowledge we have acquired along with what knowledge we have of the human race (even when talking about our own species, and not primordial life on some distant world); how well can we predict in even a thousand years what life on Earth would be like. I wouldn't even want to hazzard a guess...

Further, even with an immune system and with the time our species has survived upon this planet...it doesn't a priori immunize us against everything. A person can be well adapted to conditions in their current environ, and their immune system can do well at fighting the sorts of infections they are typically exposed to locally.

Then that same person could go to the rain forest or some other area, be exposed to a new species and run up against a new risk to their health that their body is not presently adapted to dealing with.

Further, and leaving other (alien worlds) out of the equation; can we say for certainty that there aren't potential risks to our own health existing right here on Earth that we might not be aware of? With the advent of 20th century medicine for instance; how many predicted AIDS until it was right on top of us and we ran up against it?
 
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so you're saying that they wouldn't be prepared for immunity issues, or that we presented more of an immunity issue then any other planet

I'm saying the idea that we presented an immunity issue, no other planet was an immunity issue, or that we were more of an immunity issue then any other planet they've harvested in the past, and they didn' have proper sterilization techniques foir the undertaking of evolving human beings from microbes in the first place is too far a stretch for me without some kind of explanation

in my mind the script needs to tell us why we were an immunity issue and no other planet an issue...I'm just being picky I guess since no one else seems to think this was a big deal
 
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