how do new refineries help oil shortage?

[Xie]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

I think one of the man reasons for no new refineries is that they cost billions I think I heard and then they pay insurance out the arse. Also like most anything that pollutes like crazy nobody wants them near them.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

hehe server must be messing up you posted that last one 3 times.. lol or are you trying to make a point

.
edits going through as posts

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

I think one of the man reasons for no new refineries is that they cost billions I think I heard and then they pay insurance out the arse. Also like most anything that pollutes like crazy nobody wants them near them.

I'm sure insurance is going to be less on a new refinery over an old one...much higher liability on old equiptment then new

that would offset the investment in new refineries

 

[Xie]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Even a smaller-scale refinery could cost at least $1 billion to build, said James Nelson, a division manager at Marathon Ashland Petroleum LLC's Detroit refinery, the only refinery left in Michigan. And due to changing clean-air rules for refineries, it costs millions to maintain the operations, experts say.

In the last 10 years, U.S. refiners have invested about $47 billion in environmental improvements for their facilities, much of that to make cleaner fuels.

Stolen from here.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

My own explination:

There has not been a new refinery built in the US for about 20-30 years. Quite a few small refineries that were around 20 years ago have been shut down (for instance the Husky Refinery on the Shoshone River just north of Cody Wy. Ect.)

you mean they were pressured out of bussiness by the bigger oil companies...they asked for the consolidation of refineries, and it wasn't in their best interest to build new ones

with their pal in office, they won't have to spend the money, you and I will do that for them

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Stolen from here.

that's a good stat...it shows how worthwhile it is to invest in our future...the profit is in my mind clear

could someone find the stat that tells us what percentage our refineries are operating at...I can't find it

 

[Xie]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

could someone find the stat that tells us what percentage our refineries are operating at...I can't find it

I believe they keep that as close to 100% as possible as thats most profiitable. This way they sell 100% of the product. If they need more they expand refiniery probably.

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

I don't make posts without knowing what I am talking about. Out of date but it tells the story.

http://rru.worldbank.org/Documents/275-bacon-tordo.pdf

Light sweet oil was cheaper to refine until recently so no one invested in refineries to refine heavy crude which is currently $20 a barrell cheaper. Now new heavy crude refineries need to be built. The liscencing process coudl take 5-10 years (20-100 in california...). So make existing federal land available. Military bases are not governed by state regulations. They are federal land.

Try reading financial and investment sites instead of the rabble rousers in the leftist (and rightest) rags and you can actually find out what drives the world you live in.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

you and me have put protections in place to safeguard our future...doing an end run around what we've done to protect our children is what's proposed by letting this presidents pals run their bussiness without regulation

you think this is a good idea?

the point is that when there is a return a company will invest, when the investment out weighs the return they don't

nobody should be paying the bill oil companies have to pay...if they need to invest, they should do it..the people that buy their product have to pay the bill

the price of product needs to reflect a companies need to invest...no bussiness should get a free ride from their man in office

they have to invest in their bussiness, I don't want them getting my money...and I don't want my children dying 20 years sooner just because someone didn't want to spend the money it takes to clean the mess they leave on the floor

their profit margin will pay for their investment...if it doesn't they need to raise the price so their product tp cover their cost

but putting the bill on everybody but the bussiness that should be paying the bill is what's proposed....this is marxism I think

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Do you want your children to have to forgo college because the cost of fueling your car and heating your home keeps you from saving for their tuition?

Businesses need incentive to invest. As long as short supply of light sweet crude exisst prices rise, profit margins increase and there is no reason to invest.

Only government incentives or competition drive investment. Alternate energy (wind, solar, nuclear, etc) will drive new heavy crude refineries eventually. After the middle income have suffered for 5-10 years like when I the first showing of this melodrama in the 1970's.

PS Businesses never pay the bill. Businesses go bankrupt or they pass the bill on to consumers.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

no...nor will my children forgo college...certainly not for the price of a gallon of gas anyway

the cost of a product is the cost of the product

here's how to make sure my kids get into college;

why not take my money and buy steel for the auto indistry so they don't have to pay for it?

then I won't have to pay 30 grand for a car...that will put my kids in college alot faster then the savings of gas you're talking about

that's the same thing...the cost of this bussiness is their cost...they need to price according to the cost of the product

how about this?

do you know how much more efficient a car would be if it were desidnged to run without back pressure?

no muffler would save more money then this meager deregulation as far as the price of a mile of travel

let's all run without mufflers on our cars then

same thing as letting a refinery run without regulation

and what about that black stuff that used to pour out of trucks...I think we should let them do that again...I loved that...then we would have more of that black stuff to breath, and it will cost less to go a mile...that would be worth it too

bussiness always pay the bill...unless of course they can get their pal to force you and me to pay the bill...or they go out of bussiness and then you and me pay the bill...that part is right

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Perris, I have bad news. They are already taking your money to buy steel for the auto industry. Imported steel is one of the items discouraged by the government. Your money is subsidizing overpriced US Steel.

This of course leads to more off-shoring (car companies ahve moved manufacturing overseas and only do final assembly here) which also deprives your children of their future jobs. The whole system is so ****ed up it's pretty much non-recoverable.

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Perris, I have bad news. They are already taking your money to buy steel for the auto industry.

this must be why I can afford to send my kids to college

Imported steel is one of the items discouraged by the government. Your money is subsidizing overpriced US Steel.

I am against communism and marxism and will fight it when I see it.

The whole system is so ****ed up it's pretty much non-recoverable.

the fight is the thing

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Thinking back in history wasn't the last successful US revolution about excessive taxes?

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Thinking back in history wasn't the last successful US revolution about excessive taxes?

a very good point indeed

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

On the bright side George junior did mention the dirty word that terrifies the oil industry (shhhh! nuclear power).

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

On the bright side George junior did mention the dirty word that terrifies the oil industry (shhhh! nuclear power).

I am for nuclear power, and on that issue I agree with president bush

however, I am not for making the investment risk free

 

[LeeJend]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

Refineries were operating at 98% last Nov 22. Well after the summer driving season ended. I'll keep looking for the spring stats but suspect 100% as they build inventory for summer.

The problem is in inventory. That's what drives the speculators. Refiners can't repoduce enough gasoline during the summer to meet demand. To maximize profits you have to build inventory glut in winter to meet summer demand. Reverse is true for heating oil. Inventories have not been as high as they like so prices will rise on speculation to deter driving. Then the lower inventories will last the summer and there won't be any half mile long lines like when I was in high school and college.

When I was a kid the government intervened to keep prices artificially low.

Found one April 2005:
"The United States... has been short of refining capacity for a very long time. Each year, they import refined products, in particular European gasoline during the second quarter."

US can not meet it's refining needs domestically. We buy from Europe for the summer driving season.

 

[falconguard]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

This is a stupid argument. OPEC controls the price of oil, if the price drops they drop production, if they price goes up they pump marginally more to milk profit.

Who benefits from the increased production of refined oil? the Oil industry. Instead of thinking long term and demanding increased fuel mileage in all cars, and demanding better mileage he thinks of his friends first. Why we need increased oil production!!!!

So people are outraged at having to pay over $2.00 for gas, get used to it.

Instead of having the common sense to free our dependence on petroleum reserves, he makes us more in their debt.

I'm sorry this just smacks of Corporate whore

 

[Perris Calderon]

Re: how do ne refineries help oil shortage?

This is a stupid argument. OPEC controls the price of oil, if the price drops they drop production, if they price goes up they pump marginally more to milk profit.

correct...finally the sanity arrives

So people are outraged at having to pay over $2.00 for gas, get used to it.

yup

Instead of having the common sense to free our dependence on petroleum reserves, he makes us more in their debt.

giving my money to rich people

/agrees