Help networking with TCP/IP

[Nash]

I have a small network in my home with two computers, one with XP and another with ME. Everything works fine with the IPX protocol, but when I try to get things working using TCP/IP, nothing works. I can see the ME computer but I cannot browse it's folders, and I can't see the XP computer from ME computer.

Strange is when I run a game that uses TCP/IP, and I create a game in one computer, I can see the game created with the other computer, but I can't join.


I've read the guides in the top of the forum, I've tried everything in there but with no success. Any help would be very appreciated.

 

[Rootz]

Your problem may depend on several things...
Keep in mind those steps in setting up a home network:
1. Computers must belong to the same workgroup to be trusted.
2. Computers must have different IP addresses that reside in the same subnet mask to recognize each other as local resources.
3. In case you set up Internet Connection Sharing you may experience local networtking problems if you don't set up all ICS clients accordingly.

If you are not familiar with all this stuff to manually troubleshoot thse problems, then you should rely on the Network Setup Wizard included in WindowsXP, it's a rather simple tool, if you run it on the *server* machine and then setup each *client* with a network installation disk (also from the wizard) then everything should get in the right place.
Anyway something tells me that you already tried that...
Good luck!

 

[JJB6486]

Make sure IPs are in the same class and the subnets are the same. Also check that NetBIOS over TCP/IP is enabled on the WinME machine.

JJB6486

 

[relder]

Disagree with you on two things Rootz.

You DON'T need to be in the same workgroup. It will speed up browsing if you are but it is not required. As a MCSE, I'm sure you understand that if there is more than one workgroup then one PC will assume the role as a domain master browser and distribute the list to each workgroup master broswser for viewing in Network Places/Neighborhood.

Also, I highly recommend NOT to use the networking wizard. Messes up settings that can easily be configured manually. Making a lot of money from users who have run this tool.

Nash,
You are obviously connected or you won't be able to see the game created on the other computer. I would look at the game FAQs to try to troubleshoot that. What protocol does the game run on?

I would dump IPX/SPX and work on the IP configurations. Make sure you have enabled NetBIOS over TCP/IP on the XP box. It's already the default on the other.

 

[Nash]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've not enabled the NetBios in XP machine, I've enabled it, and nothing works yet. Here are my settings:

On XP box:
========

-Client for Microsoft Networks
-File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks
-Internet Protocol TCP/IP

TCP/IP settings:
- IP: 192.168.0.1
- Sub Mask: 255.255.255.0
- Workgroup: workgroup
- NetBios enabled

On ME box:
========

- Client for Microsoft Networks
- Realtek RTL8029 NIC
- File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks
- TCP/IP

TCP/IP settings:
- IP: 192.168.0.2
- Sub Mask: 255.255.255.0
- Gateway: 192.168.0.1 (I have tried without this too)
- Workgroup: workgroup
- NetBios enabled

relder,
The game uses TCP/IP. I've tried two different games, and in both the same thing happens.

 

[clutch]

Originally posted by relder
Disagree with you on two things Rootz.

You DON'T need to be in the same workgroup. It will speed up browsing if you are but it is not required. As a MCSE, I'm sure you understand that if there is more than one workgroup then one PC will assume the role as a domain master browser and distribute the list to each workgroup master broswser for viewing in Network Places/Neighborhood.

Actually, I would have to agree with Rootz. What he wrote was that the workstations need to be in the same workgroup to be *trusted* (as opposed to dealing with the stupid IPC$ prompt from the 9X class workstations), not just accessable. What his goal seemed to be was to help the user with his machines "seeing" each other, and being in the same group would help that out tremendously. There have been times that I have told someone that he or she *must* do something in order to see the desired result, even if there are other options. This is done for simplicity by limiting options (and confusion), not for lack of knowledge. Also, if they are in the same workgroup the XP machine will be at the top end of the browse heirarchy anyway and that should alleviate ridiculous voting calls by other workstations.

@Nash,

You don't by chance have the Internet Connection Firewall enabled on the XP box, do you? That would put a damper on things. Also, assuming that isn't enabled, can you ping from one box to the other? What about vice versa?

 

[Nash]

Clutch
I don't have ICF enabled, and I cannot ping neither XP to ME and ME to XP. I just can ping the computer itself (XP to XP and ME to ME).

 

[dotbatman]

hardware?

software wise, Nash, you have got everything right.

it doesn't get any simpler than what you are setting up, so i wouldn't worry about any network wizards either.

what is the hardware between the two machines? do you have a hub? (i am assuming you do since each machine has only one NIC)

make sure you are at least getting link lights on the hub and NICS, also look in the system tray of the XP box, does it show a disconnected cable? to double check this, go to Network Neighborhood properties, and on the Local Area Connection properties select "show icon in taskbar when connected".

if the machines can't even ping with such a simple setup, i fail to see what you are going to accomplish by playing with the TCP/IP settings.

as a last resort, you could install NetBeui off the XP cd, but again, only after checking all of the hardware.

one more thing, are there any other devices on the network that have an IP? like a router or something?

 

[Rootz]

I must agree with you relder when you do not trust Windows Wizards, especially in something so important like setting up a network. Things like these should be implemented with the maximun knowledge, attention and control over each setting you manage.
It's true also that there a lot of people not knowing what a subnet mask is and their only desire is make directly visible two computers with each other.
If you don't know where to set up things it is always better not to touch a single checkbox and rely on something else, besides WinXP has been made to ease home networking so let's at least try to use it for its purpose... it might work.

On the other hand I think you underestimate the *workgroup* role in a peer to peer network. It is true that may be possible to use more than one workgroup name in the same network but I'd recommend to do that in presence of at least on server machine and with enough network knowledge...

I this particular case, tha man already had problem with network setup, so paying attention to the *workgroup* detail could only help him.

 

[Nash]

I don't have a hub (do I need one to connect the two computers?), I'm connecting the two comps with a crossover cable.

The lights in the back of the NICs are on and when I enable the connection icon in the tray, it shows me that I'm connected.

I don't have other devices that use IP on the computers.

The strange is that everything works fine if I install the IPX protocol (I need to remove TCP/IP on both machines for it to work).

 

[clutch]

With IPX/SPX installed, have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling TCP/IP on both machines? One of them might have a corrupted installation.

 

[dotbatman]

Originally posted by Rootz

It's true also that there a lot of people not knowing what a subnet mask is and their only desire is make directly visible two computers with each other.
If you don't know where to set up things it is always better not to touch a single checkbox and rely on something else, besides WinXP has been made to ease home networking so let's at least try to use it for its purpose... it might work.

In this case though, Nash has clearly shown that his TCP/IP settings are absolutely correct. There are only two things he should reasonably need to configure for two machines to talk, and he has done both.

Well, Nash, it sounds like we can eliminate the hardware. Good news, nothing to buy

Clutch, you may have a good idea there. The system may still be looking for the NWLink. But if your suggestion doesn't work, would you agree Netbeui might be in order? As a LAST resort, there is always that tip to revert back to the TCP/IP settings from a clean install.

Why are so many peope having such a problem with the simplest, most basic networking (p2p workgroup)? I still say there's something MS has done to the way the protocol stacks are loaded, to help them with their precious boot time.

 

[clutch]

Since he does have a successful implementation of IPX/SPX, I would suggest that he stay away from a manual install of NetBEUI on the XP box. I did (ok, "do still" ) like NetBEUI, but since it's a non-routable, dead protocol there really isn't a need in this case to go forward with it. Plus, some older games that he has might want to use IPX/SPX, whereas I can't remember any 3rd party game that used NetBEUI.

 

[Nash]

Clutch,

I've already tried to reinstall TCP/IP some times in the two boxes with the same results.

Well, today I've made a clean install of Windows ME in the XP box (maybe with the same versions of windows in both machines this may work, I thought), same thing happens, they can't find each other, so I've make a clean install of XP again.

I'm starting to give up.

 

[dotbatman]

sorry, bear with me

i know i asked this question before, but i just can't get the idea out of my head.

the only explanation i can think of that makes any sense (it would cover the fact that hardware problems are not apparent and that seemingly pristine TCP/IP settings are not working) is that there is a conflict in name or IP on the network. That should come up with a warning on boot up, esp with XP, but I won't sleep til I ask one more time.

Are the machines completely isolated, ie. they are ONLY connected to each other?

don't get mad, i just need my sleep.

 

[Nash]

dotbatman,

I'll not get mad, especialy with you all that are trying to help me. Thanks to everyone.

The machines are only connected to each other through a crossover cable connected in the NICs, no routers, no hubs, no nothing. The only connection that I have here, on my XP box, is the internet connection to my ISP with a 56k modem.

Now you can sleep

 

[clutch]

Have you tried getting another cable?

 

[Nash]

Ok guys, I've found the problem. I've asked a friend of mine to bring his NIC here to make a test and it worked. I've simply removed my NIC from the ME box and put his NIC on it and everything now runs smooth.

Thanks to all of you that replied and helped me to figure out what's wrong.

What I don't know is why with my NIC the IPX works and the TCP/IP not.

Everything is fine now, thanks again.