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GeForce FX

#1
Hey Folks,
What the hell is going on with this card, things are REALLY strange at the moment and im not sure why.

Firstly, online stores are now starting to allow pre-orders of this card at around 700 euros or about 450 quid, BUT they are also saying that they will be available in about 2 weeks (the Club 3D and Creative ones). However, why has there been no Benchmarks of these babys - surely if Manufacturers WERE already manufacturing them then someone, somewhere would have sneaked out a few benchmarks by now - also why is it that sites like Toms Hardware havent had a preview card yet? After all - we ARE supposed to be only 2 WEEKS before manufacturers release the card.

Somethings wrong here folks - very wrong - as all of this just isnt adding up.

Also NVIDIA themselves have gone quiet, theres no real marketing of this board other than a few flash animations, "movies" of the board in action (which have been around a good while now), and some presentations.

I smell a rat...
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#4
Originally posted by TheBlueRaja
Hey Folks,
What the hell is going on with this card, things are REALLY strange at the moment and im not sure why.

Firstly, online stores are now starting to allow pre-orders of this card at around 700 euros or about 450 quid, BUT they are also saying that they will be available in about 2 weeks (the Club 3D and Creative ones). However, why has there been no Benchmarks of these babys - surely if Manufacturers WERE already manufacturing them then someone, somewhere would have sneaked out a few benchmarks by now - also why is it that sites like Toms Hardware havent had a preview card yet? After all - we ARE supposed to be only 2 WEEKS before manufacturers release the card.

Somethings wrong here folks - very wrong - as all of this just isnt adding up.

Also NVIDIA themselves have gone quiet, theres no real marketing of this board other than a few flash animations, "movies" of the board in action (which have been around a good while now), and some presentations.

I smell a rat...
the card is technically over 6 months late...

it is not going to be widely available till around mid feb/march... per the people shipping... pre-orders are being taken though... but how many will pay 700 bucks for a video card? heck thats more than a 3.06ghz HT enabled pentium4...

on a side not... with that massive cooler, that the gf FX needs to just operate @ its claimed frequencies, the video card could literally crush not only ati vid cards but monster trucks and anything else out there that is man made or not... :cool:

basically the paperforce may fly soon.. but nvidia's pr is maknig sure it stays in the fore-front of peoples minds... :cool:
 
#5
before i bought a 9700 pro i was debating about the waiting or getting a card now. now that i have see the massive cooler on the FX, i am glad i chose the ATI card, cause i have NO free slots. i wonder how loud that it. anyway i am sure it will kill the 9700 pro, then ati will release something that will kill the fx and vice versa.
 

Taurus

hardware monkey
#6
Re: Re: GeForce FX

Originally posted by Sazar
...video card could literally crush not only ati vid cards but monster trucks and anything else out there that is man made or not... :cool:
:D :) :blink:

Originally posted by Jz1397-4
now that i have see the massive cooler on the FX, i am glad i chose the ATI card, cause i have NO free slots.
hell, i wish cards took up 3 or 4 slots just to have better cooling... or just cuz. :p

but i don't plan on seeing the card available for purchase for a while.. probly at least a month. besides, i'm not putting a penny down until i see plenty of benchmarks from different reviewers and their impressions.

well, that... and until i get a new motherboard/cpu/mem :huh:
 
#8
if you are talking about me, i did not mean to flame any company, i was just saying that the industry is like leapfrog, so it is about time.
 
#10
Yeah, but guys your missing my point - why only 2 weeks from release isnt there a single benchmark here.

Everyone is saying the FX will blow the Ati's out the water - and they probably will, but where the proof? Its all just hype at the moment - like the PS2's (spit!) "Emotion" chip, everybody bought that hook line and sinker and look at it - its S**t. (Grapically - even at release).

2 Weeks from launch and no benchmarks, no manufaturer coming forward and offering boards for tests and lots of unanswered questions.

This reeks of something bad...

Still, i bet the drivers will be better at launch than ATI's.

;)
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#11
Originally posted by TheBlueRaja
Yeah, but guys your missing my point - why only 2 weeks from release isnt there a single benchmark here.

Everyone is saying the FX will blow the Ati's out the water - and they probably will, but where the proof? Its all just hype at the moment - like the PS2's (spit!) "Emotion" chip, everybody bought that hook line and sinker and look at it - its S**t. (Grapically - even at release).

2 Weeks from launch and no benchmarks, no manufaturer coming forward and offering boards for tests and lots of unanswered questions.

This reeks of something bad...

Still, i bet the drivers will be better at launch than ATI's.

;)
basically the retaillers will be bound by nda's per nvidia specs... and therefore will not be able to release actual bench figures...

if you recall when the 9700pro was launched it too did not have actual bench figures published... only percentages...

now I will try and present an outlook on the gf FX and its gamer market... :::

it is a high end product and with the tech and what not that has gone into it.. the gf FX WILL debut @ the top of the pile when it comes out... it HAS to... and considering the tech in it... there is no reason why @ base resolutions the card is not faster than the r300 based 9700pro...

the problem that most people (incl. myself) have with the gf FX is its smaller 128bit bus and ddr II memory... this leads a few different scenarios... a smaller bandwidth... higher clock speeds due to higher latencies of the memory (clock for clock it is slower than ddr)... higher temperatures... more signal 'noise' generated...

basically these things are factors that nvidia has had to work around and overcome... if you read my posts on the nv30... you will see that I had stated that the product would use a 10layer pcb... now per sources on beyond3d (possibly one of the best places online to have a discussion about gpu's) and other sources online... that number is up to 12 layers of pcb.... that is EXPENSIVE to produce in quantity... but gives an inidication of just how much noise in being generated @ those clocks and with that architecture....

coming to raw performance... the card itself is likely to beat the R9700pro in raw benches with no AA and FSAA turned on... but when AA and FSAA are turned on (and believe me when I tell you a LARGE number of owners of the r9700pro play @ 1024x768 or 1280x1024 with reasonable levels of AA and FSAA turned on)... there is likely to be a different scenario...

there is likely to be a far less performance delta between the r9700pro and the gf FX...

of course this post may be moot depending on how efficientl the gf FX's compression techniques really are...

I would like to point out one other thing... whenever there is a new architecture... drivers have to be built froms scratch to compensate for its architecture...

sure the dets are bundled but the drivers for the gf FX have to be written from scratch because they are a newer architecture...

what a lot of people fail to realise when it comes to nvidia drivers is that a lot of the gpu's are a natural progression of the architecture from one gf model to the next with a few advancements placed here and there... they ahve a different outlook than ATi which rotuniely goes with a completely new architecture... brand new architecture will yield more problems on the whole though I have been extremely satisfied with my drivers for my card..

this basically means that nvidia does not have to redo its drivers all the time... also they work closely with design teams for games and this also yields better performance..

however ati has changed its business structure and they do have VERY good drivers out there right now...

claiming that the gf FX will not have any driver related issues is a very bold statement for a gen of card coming from a company that has not designed something completely new in quite a while...


.: disclaimer thinger :.

I try and take informed educated guesses @ products...

I dont think ati are perfect and neither do I think nvidia are perfect... if someone attacks a product w/o reason there are problems then :) and I will post in regards to that...

I have not said anything negative about the gf4ti series because they set a new standard... but @ the same time before you start saying the nv30 or the r300/350 will do such and such and what not.. have a read as to the basics on the architecture... and understand the design and the way it works as well as the way ddr/ ddrII works /latencies /speeds /limitations and so on and so forth :)
 

Majin

DBZ - Yes its in me!
#12
what nvidia is doing is called HYPE ok they are making sure no matter what the card does actually do it will be likend to a god in our minds of only that.
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#13
Originally posted by Majin
what nvidia is doing is called HYPE ok they are making sure no matter what the card does actually do it will be likend to a god in our minds of only that.
yes and no :)

you are right about the hype... this reeks of 3dfx lol.. when they went under...

however when I see a card with a ddrII spec and mem/core speeds of 500mhz.. and also available 256mb of memory... for the nice round figure of around 600-700 USD... it is something unlike what most have seen...

ati already has a 256mb solution btw.. the firegl card... not a gamer but based on the r300 core for professional workstations...

cost of that baby? around 500 odd USD...

the gf FX is probably only a stop gap while nvidia work on their next nextgen cards... namely the nv35 and nv40...
 
L

Leo154

Guest
#14
I have a GeForce 2 Ti :) so stop saying stuff like 500MHz Core DDRII and an extra slot for cooler and 256 MB... I get scared... thats like saying a gigilionzibilionmajillion dollars... its difficult...

GeForce 2 Ti was the best wasn't it? I bet it can benchmark all the new graphics card's asses at a smooth 24fps. Which is good.. :D
 

Sazar

F@H - Is it in you?
Staff member
Political User
#16
Originally posted by Leo154
I don't know :confused:
lol I think thats pretty honest on your part... :)

fyi...

gf2 parts are basically dx7 therefore they can't even run some of the benchmarking games in 3dmark2001... if that bench floats your boat :)

now you do know...
 

Krux

Nissan Powered
#17
Its all just hype at the moment - like the PS2's (spit!) "Emotion" chip, everybody bought that hook line and sinker and look at it - its S**t. (Grapically - even at release).

I never bought into that not even for a second the game cube and xbox both have superior graphics over the ps2 GameCube(ATI) Xbox(nvidia) all 3 of which I have ps2 was givin to me tho wouldn't even think of spending money on that.
 
#18
I never bought into that not even for a second the game cube and xbox both have superior graphics over the ps2 GameCube(ATI) Xbox(nvidia) all 3 of which I have ps2 was givin to me tho wouldn't even think of spending money on that.
The Gamecube and the X-Box werent around at the launch of the PS2, so its not a fair comparison really, besides i dont wanna get off the track here - my point was that its all hype.

Sazar mate - nice post - very informative, but

coming to raw performance... the card itself is likely to beat the R9700pro in raw benches with no AA and FSAA turned on... but when AA and FSAA are turned on (and believe me when I tell you a LARGE number of owners of the r9700pro play @ 1024x768 or 1280x1024 with reasonable levels of AA and FSAA turned on)... there is likely to be a different scenario...
I would doubt this would be the case to be honest, simply because i cannot see how they could justify the price. Anyone who is going to buy this card isnt gonna spend all that money on a card which is matched (or closely matched) by one that is a couple of hundred quid cheaper. For 450 buck (UK) i would want a card that whoops ATI's ass.

Hell, im not saying that it will here either - i just dont know cause i aint seen nothing on the benchmark front - (3Dmark i dont really trust either anymore).

But for me to shell out that much on a card - it blinkin better...
 

Krux

Nissan Powered
#19
Originally posted by Sazar
yes and no :)

you are right about the hype... this reeks of 3dfx lol.. when they went under...

however when I see a card with a ddrII spec and mem/core speeds of 500mhz.. and also available 256mb of memory... for the nice round figure of around 600-700 USD... it is something unlike what most have seen...

ati already has a 256mb solution btw.. the firegl card... not a gamer but based on the r300 core for professional workstations...

cost of that baby? around 500 odd USD...

the gf FX is probably only a stop gap while nvidia work on their next nextgen cards... namely the nv35 and nv40...






THEY DIDN'T GO UNDER THAT WERE PUSHED UNDER!!! DAMN YOU NVIDIA!!!! DAMN U TO HELL!!!!!:mad: :(
 

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