Do we need a National ID Card?

[Petros]

If you look at our history even during war times (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War...) we never needed to have this sort if thing. We have always had state IDs for where we live. Now they say we should have National ones due to all this terrorism? We have always had some sort of terrorism. Hell durring the "cold war" era the Gov was always freaked out about spies and "s;eeper agents" that could undermine the nation's security. We didn't have national IDs then.

Back then, our borders weren't the international joke they are today. Even Hillary Clinton has shifted to the right on that issue. Maybe we don't need a new ID system, but better border and immigration control.

 

[Jewelzz]

Just put a chip in my ass ... they can keep track of me that way

 

[gonaads]

The interesting thing as to all this is it's still a "wait 'n see" game. We speculate to our heart's content but we are still in the dark as to what if anything will come of this. Think about the way some movies portray the future of this country or even this planet. A nation/global wide ID system, you put yer hand on a scan pad and it crossreferences your hand print or you insert your finger into a machine/terminal that collects a DNA sample from it. Your bank acount credit card(s) and personal info is all linked to this and when you go and buy something, anything it is automatically charged/debited from your bank/credit account. You go to the grocers, you go to the movies, you go to get gas/petrol for your car/truck/motorcycle, anything and everything. You go and start your car and you have to touch some scanning device to make sure that you are who you are and that no-one else is trying to steal your vehicle. This is freaky but all this is possible. Now where would/could you hide?

In this country we have had freedoms for a very long time and almost everyone takes them for granted. We are then told that we have to give up one or two of these freedoms to combat terrorism. So we say "yeah, why not. It's for our freedom and safety". Then later on they say we have to give up another freedom or two and we say, "yeah sure why not. It's for our safety and to continue to have our freedom". And so on... before you know it we are just like every other country that has it's citizens under a spot light. This is why this country is so great when it comes to the way we as citizens can protest, speak out and vote against anything we want. We can tell the Gov to F**k off if we want in public without fear. We can write articles news stories about the crap that this government is doing and/or how they are doing it, without fear of disappearing. Well, maybe a little bit of fear. But we have a right to do these things. And as the Constitution is a living document and can change, we can also cry out to our government representatives by letters assemblies and in the way we vote for them or against them that also influences their desission making when it comes to all these things. Now try that somewhere else. We take for granted too many of our freedoms because we expect them. But we don't think when we are asked to give up one or two. Then when we realize that our freedoms are becoming less and less, it's too late. All we can do rite now is voice our concerns. Be opinionated as to the pros and cons of it all. Then just wait and see how it all pans out.

 

[Xie]

I'm strongly against this movement toward doing pointless things costing US tax payers $ for a false sense of security. These cards will do NOTHING to protect the people of the US, and will only have the potential to take away more rights and more privacy. </rant>

*edit* - I have also written NY sentors stating my disapproval

 

[Perris Calderon]

Wake up everyone. We are already tracked by our SSN#, credit card transactions, Driver's license, bank transactions, vehichle registrations, etc that can be used to track our every movement in the country already. If a government agency wanted to track every movement of your day, they already could do so without the need for a national id card. These cards wouldn't be taking away anymore of our privacy than what we already surrender when we sign up for a bank account, credit card, driver's license, library card, insurance, job, etc. This would be no different than the government issuing an updated SSN card and telling you that you need to use it as your main source of ID. Seeing as our ssn# is already used to track almost all our financial transactions. You don't believe me? Go out and grab an application for a credit card. Take a look at the information you need to provide when you submitt the application, and take note of where it asks for your SSN#. Then go to your local bank and ask to open a bank account, or take out a loan. Look at the application and take note of where it asks you for your SSN#. Go out to a local business that have job applications available. Pick one up, take a look at it and take note of where you are asked for your *gasp* SSN#. And the list literally keeps going on of how you're already tracked through your SSN#.

when I'm in cali, florida, new york, new jersey, conneticut, pennsilvania, nevada or where ever , no central data base has that info...they can gather it (with great resource investment) with a court order (perhaps)

with a national id, no court order neccessary

then, if the poe leese don't like all this traveling I'm doing, well, they can invent a charge, send me to jail, and bing...if there's no video to prove they lied, then whatever they want to say, they can make it so....and with the wealthy owned media just shoveling things like this under the rug, even a video might not get me out

for instance, if they don't think I'm going to vote for Bush...bing...invented charge and I"m in jail.

there will even be people that think these "poe leese" are doing their job when they invent these charges

the new consolidated media (the one that has everyone convinced it's "liberal") will make me out to be some kind of enemy of the state, like they tried to do to those nationals in new york when they tried to excersize what was once a right in this country

I'm telling you, this is gonna be great....we will be so much more secure I'm sure

 

[Shamus MacNoob]

Just put a chip in my ass ... they can keep track of me that way

Good thing I applied for the chip implanting job last week :lick:

 

[ThePatriot]

for those of you that have said it's fine;

ben franklin;

those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security.

I agree with this founding father, and I suppose he would look at those of you that would rather your security then your freedom and wonder

Perris has hit the nail square on the head. That single quote says it all, regardless of the circumstances.

Just put a chip in my ass ... they can keep track of me that way

Are you sure it's not already there, my dear? (insert evel laugh here)

 

[Tuffgong4]

if it were fact that these things could not be accessed by jobs or common people then I don't really care. I don't want my job or family and friends able to know what I'm doing at all times, not that I'm doing anything evil or bad, but that's the only place it's going to hurt me.

I'm not planning on evading my taxes or committing any serious crimes so that doesn't bother me so I don't need privacy against that but in regular life I don't want it being known.

I'm not for nor against it really, I need more info before I make a decision but used properly ( which I doubt it will be) I don't see a problem.


EDIT...and I hate any form of government in my life (I'm practically libertarian[not liberal])but that's how life is right now and things sometimes need to be done.

 

[LeeJend]

What are you all ranting about. The FBI can track you anywhere you go right now.

One computer query and they have the printout of your credit and debit charges. Location, time and what you bought. Use your cell phone and they have you nailed too. Buy a house, nailed it's even an open public record. Open a 401k if you are self employed. Nailed, open public records. You have to show a social security card and drivers liscence to to get a job. Nailed. You were born instead of hatched? Nailed, birth certificate. You made the mistake of getting married? Nailed. Screwing liscence.

Wanna see yourself on line. http://zabasearch.com/ Send them $100 and find out anything you want to about someone with just their name. Doesn't even have to be a full name. They give you a list to pick from.

THERE IS NO SEMBLANCE OF PRIVACY LEFT. It all ended with the advent of the internet and the cell phone. The information age is the end of privacy age.

If Ben and George and Thomas and the rest of the revolutionaries saw what the Constitution grew into they would cut off the hands they signed it with.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

We, the technocrats, have given the leeches in government the absolute power to enslave us.

"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

Object to national registration as vehemently as you can. Don't agree? Ask any Jew with a tatoo on his forearm what he thinks. Ooops, you can't most of them went up in smoke.

 

[ThePatriot]

...not that I'm doing anything evil or bad...

...I'm not planning on evading my taxes or committing any serious crimes so that doesn't bother me...

I think those points need to be stressed. We are, for the most part I hope, honest, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens...some of whom have served in Uniform to protect this beloved land. But we can all see the danger in being ever more traceable.

LeeJend made some good points also...we are so trackable right now it's a bit scary...and if you think any of the so-called measures taken towards "National Security"...the same ones that would remove even more of your Constitutional Rights aren't so bad...go ask someone who survived Nazi Germany what their thoughts are.

 

[LeeJend]

I've thought about my post some more. The only free people left in the USA are:

Gay, homeless, unemployed, illegal aliens with no means of transportation or telecommunications.

Though the gays are at risk since they are demanding registration just like the hetero's get.

Fortunately for our country this is a rapidly growing group.

 

[Sazar]

A driver's license of state issued ID is already an ID card.

Why do we need another one? It is not going to make us any more secure than we already are. Pointless waste of time/money and effort IMO.

 

[Xie]

Just hit frontpage of /. about 20mins ago .. passed 100-0. I will not be voting for anyone that voted for this in ANY election from here on.

I also think we (the US) need to take a long look into how these things can just be tacked onto a bill that has nothing to do with it. This goes against a democratic way of doing things as not everyone that voted for this bill agreed with on the tacked on stuff, but none of them could have the fact they didn't vote for this "support our troops" bill on their record. Very state of afairs we have here in the US lately. The Republic is crumbling .. long live the Empire ...

 

[Xie]

A driver's license of state issued ID is already an ID card.

Why do we need another one? It is not going to make us any more secure than we already are. Pointless waste of time/money and effort IMO.

The fact that with this "Real ID" act they can make something up and can be exempt from judicial review. I don't know about you guys but thats kinda scary. Seem this administration, and the alot of people voting for them seem to feel it's ok to do away with due process and everyday rights of Citizens if it means we catch the "bad guys".

*edit* - Section 101 of this thing makes it sound like if they wanna peg you as a terrorist you lose all your rights and gives the government full power to do whatever they want with you. Even if your falsely accused it sounds like there is nothing you can do about it as there will be no judicial review of any kind.

 

[Ohzopants]

<sarcasm> i think barcode tattoos would be much harder to forge </sarcasm>

But seriously though, I don't understand this crippling fear americans seem to have about terrorists. Do people really go about their lives living in fear of terrorist attacks?

A national id card is a great idea on paper, just like communism. Sadly ideas like these are always implemented by people and somewhere along the line corruption, greed or some other malicious intent will lead to abuse of the system.

Another thing, why do people get so excited about the government knowing where you go, what you read, what you buy? I personally don't care, as long as I'm not breaking the law (which I'm usually not).

P.S: as a quebec resident I love being asked to show id when i go to the states because no one can ever read it since it's in french.

 

[gonaads]

I like this thread... It has a good subject, excellent posts, one way or the other. Clean and passionate discussion.

You guys are my heros.

 

[Geffy]

As Marge mentioned they are talking about implementing this type of system in the UK as well. I can see some value to it. Having a single standard format of identification which is not dependent on your being able to perform any specific skill, other than form filling, like a Driving License does. I can see a benefit to National Standard ID format in the US, while living there I noticed that just about every state has a different format, crazy.

A lot of the other posts have been saying that the FBI, CIA, TLA.gov can already trace your every move, granted, so what's one more way for them to do it. Well if it helps them to do it more efficiently then is that a good or a bad thing. Its two sides of the same coin. We want the agencies of authority, MI5, MI6, USTLA.gov to be able to detect and prevent any actions which might disrupt our normal day to day routine, but with the condition that they aren't going to misuse their access and aren't going to come after and disturb us to get their job done.

In all likely-hood terrorism will not directly affect you. You may watch it on TV, or read about it in the paper, but the chances are minimal, save for if you work in the government sectors as the terrorists would obviously tend to target those institutions. Or if for example you were a doctor, you might then be put in the position of trying to save a victim, or possibly the terrorists themselves.

Again the main public agenda for this is to keep the members of the country safe, but what other things could a national id card system be used for. We dont want something whereby companies get our id card information as they could then target us with advertising, which could possibly be worse than current spam problems.

I think the things that most people are scared of with regard to national id cards is the shear scope of information and applications the card would enable.

 

[Perris Calderon]

here is a very scary scenario;

I believe this bill will be defeated...on the first attempt.

then I'm sorry to say, I will be expecting an attack of some sort on our soil which the administration and the new consolidated media will report as having been preventable had there been a national id system

and then the bill will come around again be passed easily

I don't put this kind of orchestration passed the kind of people that want the power this "national id" will give them

as just about everyone has noted, the information is already available...this national id is a marketing scheme for more easily obtained access....access by anyone in any position of authority, without any accountability

I'll tell you what...if Ben franklin saw how apathetic people were regarding this issue, I'm pretty sure he would wonder just what country he was looking at...I think he would be certain it wasn't America.

however the theocrats that are taking control of our government would take good ol' ben and have his womanizing butt in jail...that would be one of the reasons the government wants to be able to centralize personal data and monitor personal activity...so they would be able to track subversives and womanizers like b. f.

I wonder if old ben, looking down with his bretheren to the new nation they founded and brought forth, if America evolved according to the great vision of liberty and freedom that so many people died for...I wonder

 

[Petros]

Ben Franklin would probably also be shocked that gays were attempting to gain marriage rights and not running from angry mobs. He would be amazed at the Judiciary and how they can defeat hundreds of lawmakers with a single decision. He would be appalled that taxes were so incredibly high, and that we borrowed an income tax system from Karl Marx. The man who once said "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise" would be shocked that people who do neither and choose not to work can still collect a paycheck and eat until they're fat.

I don't think invoking the name of Ben Franklin is a good idea in this matter.

 

[Xie]

I believe this bill will be defeated...on the first attempt.

I missed my post above. The bill this was attached to a "support our troops bill" and passed yesterday 100-0. As seen after this past election no politician can even question a bill if it has to do with "our troops" these days or they will be labeled anti-American. It doesn't matter how much extra stuff, that has nothing to do with the bill, is tacked on to it. There could have been a section about killing everyones first born and attached to a bill like this and I fear it still would have passed 100-0 as the fear of the media/spin machine would have made it almost impossible to run come re-election time.