Declaration of independance banned at California school

[Steevo]

Our Nation was largely founded on religious freedom...why we consistently try to go against that belief these days is ridiculous. Teaching about our founding fathers, many of whom were very religious men, and the documentation that defined our young nation is simply practicing freedom of religion. I understand the "separation of church and state" theory, but you cannot separate the fact that God is a written part of our history.

That isn't the problem though. The ties that are still here are the problem. Yeas, by all meants tell children and let them know. But don't force it on them. Another thing baffles me.

"One nation under god" Right??
Now children lets go learn about how there is no god and that evolution is how we started........



This is my last post in this thread, it will soon turn to flaming if people aren't carefull.

 

[rushm001]

This PC (Political correctness) business is gone mad. I mean last year Norfolk county council cut a load of horse chestnut trees down as they said there was a risk of children injuring themsleves whilst trying to get conkers! Whatever next!

 

[ThePatriot]

That isn't the problem though. The ties that are still here are the problem. Yeas, by all meants tell children and let them know. But don't force it on them. Another thing baffles me.

"One nation under god" Right??
Now children lets go learn about how there is no god and that evolution is how we started........



This is my last post in this thread, it will soon turn to flaming if people aren't carefull.

I couldn't agree more as far as telling them all views. I am a believer in Creation, but I'm not the most religious guy you'll ever meet. In fact, other than the occasional funeral or wedding, I don't think I've set foot in a church in about 10 years, and even then it was only occasionally. I don't want ANYTHING forced on my children, but I don't want any hidden from them, either.
As far as flaming...I wouldn't do it...God doesn't like that...

 

[Evil Marge]

This PC (Political correctness) business is gone mad. I mean last year Norfolk county council cut a load of horse chestnut trees down as they said there was a risk of children injuring themsleves whilst trying to get conkers! Whatever next!

They did the same in South Shields back in September
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/3679162.stm

 

[Ferral_Imp]

Somethings that are being forgotten in our country(The US) today are:
1) nowhere in the constitution or in the bill of rights did our founding fathers ever say the phrase "separation of church and state". Rather they clearly wrote in the bill of rights that the government will not declare or support any religion as a national religion. It was the supreme court that first used the term separation of church and state to describe what the founding fathers had written in the bill of rights.

2)Seeing as the founding fathers had made it so the nation could not adopt a national religion, the use of the word "God" in the constitution, declaration of independence, bill of rights, on our currency, and anywhere else in governmental areas was supposed to signify their acceptance and belief in a higher being from whom all of our most basic rights came from not an attempt to force religion down anyone's throats.

3)The original pledge did not contain the words "under God". Rather they were added by congress later as a response to communism.

 

[Electronic Punk]

They did the same in South Shields back in September
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/3679162.stm

Mandetory bungalows.

 

[ThePatriot]

Somethings that are being forgotten in our country(The US) today are:
1) nowhere in the constitution or in the bill of rights did our founding fathers ever say the phrase "separation of church and state". Rather they clearly wrote in the bill of rights that the government will not declare or support any religion as a national religion. It was the supreme court that first used the term separation of church and state to describe what the founding fathers had written in the bill of rights.

2)Seeing as the founding fathers had made it so the nation could not adopt a national religion, the use of the word "God" in the constitution, declaration of independence, bill of rights, on our currency, and anywhere else in governmental areas was supposed to signify their acceptance and belief in a higher being from whom all of our most basic rights came from not an attempt to force religion down anyone's throats.

3)The original pledge did not contain the words "under God". Rather they were added by congress later as a response to communism.

They're not being forgotten so much as being twisted or subdued. My problem isn't with who's a believer and who isn't, my problem is with those who seek to trivialize those early documents, which were very carefully worded and purposefully so. For example:

Preamble:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Using the word God in the first paragraph conveys a whole lot more than trivial connection. Then, when you couple it with:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

...you basically come full circle. We are saying that we (founding fathers) believe in a higher power, you can believe in whom or what you choose without persecution. Why then, are we allowing situations, like the one this thread is about, to happen? By trying to hide the Declaration because of the word God, they are performing religious persecution.

Now don't get me wrong, if it turns out that this teacher was getting all Jimmy Baker in class, that is unacceptable (unless of course it's a religious school ).

I'm sure most people have heard of the Knights of Columbus, but I'm also sure they don't realize it was a petition by them that got the word God in the Pledge (1954).

 

[Son Goku]

as far as banning christmas displays, if it's on government property, then equal attention has to be given to any religous sect that requests and expects equal protection under the government.

otherwise you have a government sponsered religion

We are talking about private shops here (in the above guys mentioned post) and not a government display... And as to Santa made latter (and a Christmas tree if that's what's being mentioned); one could ask just how Christian they actually are. They're not the same thing as a nativity. What was in the displays that is getting banned wasn't exactly mentioned though (with the exception of Santa latter on).

tbh, I haven't tended to enter into this debate...partially because, if the religious affiliations of our founding fathers were to be brought up, there is a fact that should be brought up with it. Many assume that our founding fathers were Christian, case closed, end of story.

However, many of our founding father's were members of the Freemasonic order, which quite frankly was a bit of a secret, arguably occult religious order. Freemasonry, as an institution, isn't really the same as the Christian church as we see it and know it today, and very much does have an esoteric or inner teaching. Certain mysteries that one is initiated into, as they advance in the degrees of the Lodge, the Craft, or various other names that had been used for the Masonic order.

In fact, many emblems we find in this country today (such as the split pyramid with the all seeing eye, found on the back of the $1 bill, in the Great Seal of the United States, and elsewhere) are Masonic symbols. At least some of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons, though different numbers have been put out there.

Further, George Washington can be brought up

http://watch.pair.com/GW.html

The above link contains actual correspondance to/from Washington.

Arguably, mention of religious affiliation, would need to carry mention of Freemasonry, and the role of such secret societies in our nations origins. And no, on the surface of it, I don't think the showing of the Declaration of Independence should be barred, in teaching the subject of American history... And yet, in light of what I mentioned above, if the word God is being read to say they must have all been Christians and that is the end of it, what of Freemasonry in our nation's history again?

 

[Kr0m]

Recently a friend of mine decided she's going to convert back to being a Jehova. They've got 2 kids ages 13 and 6. She recently told them that there is no Santa Clause and that as a Jehovah they shouldn't believe in one. I respect her right to believe in whatever she wants to but I kind of feel bad for the 6 yr old since Christmas is most exciting for them and since he did believe in Santa Claus before he was told otherwise. She's sort of dropped hints or whatever around us about the religion but I've bit my lip on it and let it slide. If she wants to 'brainwash' her kids into such things then so be it, but don't be pimpin the crap in my house. It's going to be a pretty interesting conversation the day I feel like getting argumentative about the subject or if she shows up at our door pimpin her stuff.

 

[Shamus MacNoob]

Freemason this would explain a little better the current order of things then.

Santa rules!!!!!!!!!!

What a sad way to act banning Santa !!

Oh well ho ho ho its of to HAlf Life 2 we goooo!!


lol

 

[Steevo]

Recently a friend of mine decided she's going to convert back to being a Jehova. They've got 2 kids ages 13 and 6. She recently told them that there is no Santa Clause and that as a Jehovah they shouldn't believe in one. I respect her right to believe in whatever she wants to but I kind of feel bad for the 6 yr old since Christmas is most exciting for them and since he did believe in Santa Claus before he was told otherwise. She's sort of dropped hints or whatever around us about the religion but I've bit my lip on it and let it slide. If she wants to 'brainwash' her kids into such things then so be it, but don't be pimpin the crap in my house. It's going to be a pretty interesting conversation the day I feel like getting argumentative about the subject or if she shows up at our door pimpin her stuff.

I used to be one dumbass.


Jehovahs Witnesses don't "pimp" "crap". If you don't want to hear about it then calmly tell her you prefer not to talk about it. They respect that and don't force the fire and brimstone BS that the local preachers rant and rave about. I take offence to your biased nature about this or ANY religion.

So far as being "brainwashed", look up Christmas and what it stands for. http://www.pointsoftruth.com/xmas.html

Sorry to ruin your fun, but christmas was and still is a attempt to fuse multiple religions by political leaders, in order to gain control over them. The evergreen tree was worshiped for it's life in teh winter, and Jesus wasn't even born on Dec 25th.

 

[Shamus MacNoob]

Cool reading there and I have friends that at JW and they don't pimp anything on us at all we go over to their house and eat with them kids and all , they are very nice people.

 

[Tabula Rasa]

Ban santa - don't ban santa all the same realy, but if I see one ****ing chanukah bush I start shooting people.

 

[X-Istence]

What a ****ed up country i live in. Might be time to go back to the netherlands were reading out of the bible in class is still allowed.

 

[Tuffgong4]

This PC crap has to stop. It's ruining this country and causing arguments and fights between people that never should have happened in the first place. So the word God is mentioned in the Pledge...what or who does that hurt? This country is based on the fact that we are free. Things should not be forced upon people but what about the people who are in these classes that want to have the word GOd in their pledge. Now it's reversed persecution.

I am an agnostic that has had Christianity and Catholicism forced down my throat in school and in my regular life. But ya know what??? I'm a human being that made my own decisions based on what I feel. Why can't others do the same? Are parents too afraid that if their kids hear something about a religion they don't practice in school that they might have to get off their lazy butts and talk to their kids. OH NO!

The US and other countries with PC problems need to just realize that if you don't want to hear or do something that is not what you want don't do it, but don't force your opinions down the throats of other people. Just because you don't want the word God in your school doesn't mean that others may want it there. Usually it's one or two percent of the people complaining so that their fight makes decisions for 98 percent of the people which usually don't share the views of the fighters.

Also to add the people that are usually the most PC aren't the ones affected by the situation at hand. They just take it on as their duty to help others...yeah right!

 

[Kr0m]

I used to be one dumbass.

Quite frankly I could care less what you are or what you used to be. The name calling is a bit uncalled for as well.

Jehovahs Witnesses don't "pimp" "crap". If you don't want to hear about it then calmly tell her you prefer not to talk about it. They respect that and don't force the fire and brimstone BS that the local preachers rant and rave about. I take offence to your biased nature about this or ANY religion.

Coming to my door, dropping hints and such, is 'pimping', and to me it's crap, no matter what 'religion' it is. Take offence, it's your choice to.

So far as being "brainwashed", look up Christmas and what it stands for. http://www.pointsoftruth.com/xmas.html

I don't care what it meant or where it came from, I know what it means to me and the people around me.

Sorry to ruin your fun, but christmas was and still is a attempt to fuse multiple religions by political leaders...

Just like most other aspects of any religion.

 

[Kr0m]

Cool reading there and I have friends that at JW and they don't pimp anything on us at all we go over to their house and eat with them kids and all , they are very nice people.

Agreed. People can still be nice, regardless in what they believe.

 

[Steevo]

I'm sorry about teh name calling, it was un-called for.


And you are right, you can post what ever you want about any religion or belief. It is one of teh things granted by the same constitution that allows religious freedom.

If you do not care for it then just ask that they not call again. Quite simple

 

[Evil Marge]

Quite frankly I could care less what you are or what you used to be. The name calling is a bit uncalled for as well.



Coming to my door, dropping hints and such, is 'pimping', and to me it's crap, no matter what 'religion' it is. Take offence, it's your choice to.

Yes it was uncalled for

We get bloody Jehovahs witnesses knocking at the door every week.Was 8am the other morning and we were still in bed asleep.
I lost my temper and told them to piss off and if she ever knocks on my door again I put that friggin book on her head.
Guess what??She never came back but an old guy did while she stood down the street.
I can't abide these people

 

[Steevo]

Simply amazing how many people will not offend anyone unless its a JW. :lol: