CPU Problems

[Dublex]

OK, some people may remember me posting this before but it looks like that even with the extra fans things aren't going well for my Fujitsu-Siemens Scaleo T PC with an Intel Prescott P4 3.2Ghz Processor.

Basically, when I now start it up the sounds like a Grinding noise in the back of the PC until some sort of Fan kicks in, but not before some sort of other cooling system at the back kicks in. This is not before the CPU temperature goes up to about 70 Degrees C or so, a temperature that is definitely not stable

I strongly suspect that there is either something wrong with the heatsink or thermal pad connected to the CPU, but since I am unskilled in removing huge fans and Heatsinks (I'm skilled at most other hardware moving in the PC such as memory, expansion slots etc) is it best to hand the machine over to PC World or is there a better UK party to contact, as I'm not sure if I 100% trust PC world mechanics to necessarily do a better job

One other thing, could the power supply be the problem? as when I start it up in bios the supply is running at 11v, should it be running near 10v? Would plugging the PC into a non-extentioned powersocket help to check that problem?

thanks for any help in advance.

Just thought I'd mention that I've had this PC for about 2 years now, and I haven't made any changes to it that would effect the CPU apart from adding memory, after the CPU had started showing these symptons.

 

[ShepsCrook]

Ok, you generally don't want to have a PC to an extensioned socket. That though, wouldn't be your problem. removing a heatsink and fan is nothing to be worried about. The biggest thing is trying to figure out a reasonable amount of Thermal Paste to put back on. Sadly, you have a Prescott P4. they run very hot. So you may need to look into replacing the stock heatsink and fan. Also check it's position on the CPU, it could be loose.

 

[Sazar]

If there is a grinding sound, it sounds like a bearing is screwed up in one of your fans. Try to identify it so you can get it replaced ASAP.

Sheps is also correct in say that prescott's run hot. That's why their nickname is pressHOT.

The cooler is not difficult to remove, you should be able to easily google heatsink removal guides. If the fan on the HSF is indeed problematic, get a 3rd party cooler or contact the vendor or intel and get a replacement. A stock cooler typically should have at least a 1 year/3 year warranty on it.

The volts you are talking about, is that for the 12v rail? Because if it is and it is running at 11v, you might have issues there.

 

[Dublex]

A question or two though.. what is the average speed you would expect a P4 fan to run at? 4000rpm? at the moment mine says it runs at 2720rpm.
Could that be an indication that the power isn't plugged in properly?
also, how is the heat sucked out by the fan as per say? does the thermal paste hold the heat and a buffer then its removed by the fan?

also, how many Volts should the 12V rail run at?

 

[mlakrid]

If there is a grinding sound, it sounds like a bearing is screwed up in one of your fans. Try to identify it so you can get it replaced ASAP.
...The volts you are talking about, is that for the 12v rail? Because if it is and it is running at 11v, you might have issues there.

One thing I would point out, is that if you dont have your fans isolated from the chasis, the fan can vibrate very wildly before they get up to speed.

Mine does this from time to time, all I do is slightly lift the chasis in the front, and once the fan reaches its set speed, it stops making the noise.

I would check to see whicvh one is making the noise, and then see if by pressing on the fan to stop any excess vibrations, the noise stops, if not... as Sazar already mentioned as well then it is probably a bearing going out.

 

[mlakrid]

A question or two though.. what is the average speed you would expect a P4 fan to run at? 4000rpm? at the moment mine says it runs at 2720rpm.
Could that be an indication that the power isn't plugged in properly?
also, how is the heat sucked out by the fan as per say? does the thermal paste hold the heat and a buffer then its removed by the fan?

also, how many Volts should the 12V rail run at?

These are slightly harder, the answer is: it "depends" a HSF (Heat Sink Fan) will spin only fast enough to exhaust the heat from the HS. With that said, 70c is too high even for a prescott... I have one, and I run at about 39c and climb to about 45-50c even when maxing out my system.

For that reason I would think you are correct in assuming the paste (or film) on the HSF has passed its life expectancy...

do a google for heatsink fan removal (and add your motherboard model in) and then search, you should find some decent directions as how to safely remove your HSF... it is very easy.. then all you need to do is ensure the CPU and HSF are VERY CLEAN... do NOT use Q-tips or paper towels...

A very old 100% cotton rag or lint-free towels work very well... use ispropyl alcohol as the cleaner... then apply enough thermal paste (artic silver is one of my personal favs) to put a thin coat across the entire CPU and NOT across the entire HSF as most of the time youy will end up with tons of extra wasted thermal paste... if you apply too much simpoly wipe the edges off AFTER securing/tightening the HSF to the Mobo.

hope this helps some...

EDIT: also the 12v rail should be very close to 12v its better to be slightly higher than slightly low, since adding multiple items to the 12v rail will drag it down considerably, especially if there is only one single 12v rail.

 

[Dublex]

OK,

I definitely think its the CPU / heatsink thats the problem and it now seems to have got worse, by initally going up to 70 Degrees C on startup then hitting 93 Degrees C on heavy loading.. both not healthy to the system.

I checked out the Fan / Heatsink and its not a standard Intel supply, its a Fujitsu-Siemens made model with a heatsink fan mounted on a metal like frame structure which itself links to the Heatsink, so its design to both be a fan and to funnel the hot air off the CPU. Problem is, it doesn't seem to be doing its job properly despite it turning, so I'm not suspecting the thermal paste may have worn out or the P4 chip has become dismounted slightly due to tension, or that particles have landed somewhere.

The short of the tale is that its probably easiest to send them back my machine or call out Fujitsu engineer to look at it, as they know what Heatskink/Fan technology has been used. The machine is about only a year or so old so I think the fan is under warranty still.

I will let everyone know how it goes, but I will leave +tive feedback who has made suggestions so far, as its enough info to help to diagnose the problem.

I am right in assuming the paste can dry out, or that somehow the CPU can become mismounted on the Heatsink.

 

[LeeJend]

You have blown out the HSF with "canned air" right? The fins will be badly clogged after a year. Actuall once every 3 months is a good plan. Monthly if you run the PC 24/7.

The paste always dries out but it still works ok as long as you do not dislodge the CPU.

Yes the Heatsink can be "dislodged" - dropping the PC, bumping the HSF while changing out memory, intentionall moving sliding the HS on it the CPU, etc.

What happens is when you move the heatsink the paste or thermal pad may no longer be where it is needed. The problem is worse with thermal pads and old dried out paste. When you move the HSF after installaiton you get hard lumps of paste/pad keeping the HS off the CPU instead of the nice juicy paste filling in the air gaps.

It is getting harder to dislodge a fan with the 4 screw MB mounting systems but it can still be done. Most likely the fan bearings are going.

 

[Dublex]

Your probably right about the fan bearings, as I suspect thats why it makes a grinding noise and the temp shoots up while it is making the noise (I've watched it in BIOS).

Its remotely possible that the heatsink was dislodged as well, but it seems unlikely as there are 4 huge metal clasps that are clipped securely to the Heatsink that the fan / tannel is connected onto, so that is less of a possibility.