Bush bashers...any comments?

[Perris Calderon]

checks and balances?

checks and balances were circumvented by the president when he refused to supply the data he is obligated by law and office to present

I hold every single person to account (regardless of party) who had seen the data before Bush had it changed

let's hold everyone to account

if it's kerry or clinton or kennedy, clarke, tennet, rumsfeld, albright

who so ever saw the information that the data had been adjusted to suit the case for war yet did nothing...let's hold every one of them to account

 

[ThePatriot]

I do hold them all to account. Every one you mentioned and more. But, I do not believe the theory that it was done for personal reasons. I fully believe Saddam is the ultimate perpetrator, by reason of his attempts to dupe the world about his possesion of WMD. The reasons for that are all well documented, and backed up by the reports that came out after the fact. Next in line for blame in my book is the obnoxiously useless UN, for pansy assing around for 12 years with it in the first place. Were we wrong? Yes, by all means. We could have done more in hingsight to insure the data was correct. Was it a dupe? Not by us. If so, Senate, Congress and the Administration are all to blame...and I just find that extremely hard to believe.

 

[Mastershakes]

I feel for the Iraqi children immensly, even though I believe you numbers are waaaay inflated, as a matter of fact, I feel for all the Iraqi people having to put up with Saddam's rule for 3 decades. But DON'T try make us out as the bad guys...we aren't.

I purposely set the number low.... that number doesn't include the last 5 years in Iraq. Some estimate the number has doubled by now.

It just sucks. That's all. Poor kids.

 

[ThePatriot]

I purposely set the number low.... that number doesn't include the last 5 years in Iraq. Some estimate the number has doubled by now.

It just sucks. That's all. Poor kids.

I agree it sucks. There are plenty of documented down right hideous atrocities that Saddam perpetrated on his own people. The difference is, we didn't go looking to kill civilians, and we do everything in our power to prevent that from happening. To Saddam, it was just another day at the office. I have 2 kids, I know exactly how I would feel if the roles were reversed. But regardless of how you feel about us being there, the fact that we are are there can provide those kids with a brighter future, free of repression, torture, fear. Again, we aren't the bad guys.

 

[Mastershakes]

IMO - I don't feel like argueing Patriot. I've read enough of this rhetoric to disregard it completely. It's too bad you have not expanded your mind beyond what is fed to you by your media.

Ending violence and repression through violence leads to.....

a perpetual state of chaos. this serves your interests well. the american way of resolving conflicts has served only to spawn more conflict and serve your own interests. continue to ignore the teachings of history and watch history repeat.

ya got your oil. be happy, and thankful no other country has the cabilities your armed forces have. if they did, they'd be bombing your kid's schools.

Saddam was evil. So was Pol-pot.... estimates are at 2 million dead in Cambodia. America did nothing. no oil there.


oh ... "There are plenty of documented down right hideous atrocities " yes.

There are plenty of documented down right hideous atrocities in your clandestine, secret prisons around the world. People are tortured and killed by the USA. [dealer edit for one word]

 

[ThePatriot]

IMO - I don't feel like argueing Patriot. I've read enough of your crap to disregard it completely. It's too bad you have not expanded your mind beyond what is fed to you by your media.

Ending violence and repression through violence leads to.....

a perpetual state of chaos. this serves your interests well. the american way of resolving conflicts has served only to spawn more conflict and serve your own interests. continue to ignore the teachings of history and watch history repeat.

ya got your oil. be happy, and thankful no other country has the cabilities your armed forces have. if they did, they'd be bombing your kid's schools.

Saddam was evil. So was Pol-pot.... estimates are at 2 million dead in Cambodia. America did nothing. no oil there.


oh ... "There are plenty of documented down right hideous atrocities " yes.

There are plenty of documented down right hideous atrocities in your clandestine, secret prisons around the world. People are tortured and killed by the USA.

That's a great appeasing mindset, just remember, "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. " You don't have to agree with it, but you gotta live with it, or you wouldn't have the ability to say what you just did...YOU need to look at history. We tried talking for 12 years. Saddam continued to kill, we continued to be fired at. Military action was well overdue.

It is too bad you haven't expanded YOUR mind to see that you must address an animal like an animal. You can't reason with it, you can't tiptoe around hoping it'll miss you.

And I must agree, there is probably some questionable forms of interrogation going on around the world on our behalfs...but I've yet to see any reporters, truck drivers, aid workers HEADS CUT OFF because they were detained by the US.

Want to see what a great idea appeasment is? Ask Spain.

I will not attempt to reason with the unreasonable, I will not bow down to pressure from cowardly souls in the name of "humanity", because doing so only validates and encourages violence AGAINST the innocent. And I wouldn't expect my Govt to do it either.

And your rhetoric about Pol Pot only increases my belief that the world DOES look to the US as their Police force. If that's what you want, that's ok with me...then it gives me more reason to tell the critics to shut the hell up and let us do the tough jobs, since no one else seems to have the ability to.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I'm gonna clean up the posts...nothing demeaning from either camp of opinion please

 

[Perris Calderon]

I do hold them all to account. Every one you mentioned and more

you can only hold to account the people that saw the data before the president changed it

if they kept silent while he made his case for war with data they knew was doctored, they are as much to blame as he

I said I would hold everyone to account who saw the undoctored data...nobody else gets held to account for the case of make believe war.

however, if we do find others beside the president, they must all pay for what was done to us in our time of anguish

 

[Perris Calderon]

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

you can't use the noble of mind to find an excuse for those that do unoble acts

We tried talking for 12 years. Saddam continued to kill, we continued to be fired at. Military action was well overdue.

saddam was a lesser threat not a greater threat and we knew this...this argument does not hold

 

[ThePatriot]

you can't use the noble of mind to find an excuse for those that do unoble acts



saddam was a lesser threat not a greater threat and we knew this...this argument does not hold

I'm not trying to excuse any undoable acts...and the argument holds if you believe, as I do, that the data was skewed by Saddam, and not by the Bush administration, as those with an agenda that now differs from the Presidents would like us to believe. It's called CYA, no one wants to get the finger pointed at their failure to check the intel.

 

[Perris Calderon]

I'm not trying to excuse any undoable acts...and the argument holds if you believe, as I do, that the data was skewed by Saddam, and not by the Bush administration, as those with an agenda that now differs from the Presidents would like us to believe. It's called CYA, no one wants to get the finger pointed at their failure to check the intel.

we've all said what we need to say I think

we'll leave your last post as the final on this topic thepatriot since this thread has strayed too far off

gonna lock this one up, anyone care for further discussion on this, a new thread please