BCS screws it up again: Ohio St. vs. Florida in Championship

[falconguard]

As for Falcons suggestion that the ACC is overrated... since when? We have NEVER been overrated. Until BC, VT and Miami joined the conference the ACC was never even considered a viable conference, and now people are bitching because we get more credit... which is it people?? So, before you jump back on that band wagon check how many teams we put in there and the games we played, the ACC has done tremendously well these past few years. As for your comment about the Big10 vs the ACC anyone in the ACC can beat anyone in the ACC any given week much like the SEC, the Big10 has three teams OSU, Michigan and Wisconsin... and who else? There are not three other teams in the conference which could beat any of those... so all you Big 10 followers can put the signs down, get off the soapboxes and go back home... Now, lets talk facts...

To strengthen my case look at last years bowl games... the ACC was the number one conference represented... I wonder why? Because there is no "goto team" anymore.

The ACC will remain competitive in football and always will be competitve in basketball... and the inherent problems with the current system will haunt college football for at least one more year...

Here is the breakdown for this year bowl win by conference.
http://www.warrennolan.com/football/2006/bowls

You will notice that the ACC only hit 50%, however if you look closer you will notice that all their top tier teams have lost, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Virginia Tech. All of their ranked teams did not show well, and with the down year Miami and Florida State had, none of their power teams showed.

The Pac 10 also hit 50% but their ranked teams won, USC and Cal.


[edit] My bad, I left off BC, one of the two consistently well coached teams in that conference, the other being Virginia Tech.

I do not put much faith in the coaching at FSU and Miami, there is simply too much talent there to not finish top 5 every year. Look at the impact pros they have and the number of pros they put out. Too much talent.

 

[Tittles]

your bragging that Michigan beat Notre dame?

I mean really?

In that crap of a conference>?

LOL

OMG!

Yes the BCS is Fookerd up, but it will remain that way, at least the BCS got it right for once...

I hate Notre Dame :laugh:

 

[mlakrid]

Here is the breakdown for this year bowl win by conference.
http://www.warrennolan.com/football/2006/bowls

You will notice that the ACC only hit 50%, however if you look closer you will notice that all their top tier teams have lost, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Virginia Tech. All of their ranked teams did not show well, and with the down year Miami and Florida State had, none of their power teams showed.

The Pac 10 also hit 50% but their ranked teams won, USC and Cal.


[edit] My bad, I left off BC, one of the two consistently well coached teams in that conference, the other being Virginia Tech.

I do not put much faith in the coaching at FSU and Miami, there is simply too much talent there to not finish top 5 every year. Look at the impact pros they have and the number of pros they put out. Too much talent.

If you re-read the post you will see I was speaking of LAST year... as for speaking of not having faith in the coaching of Miami and FSU... you had better go back and look at the stats...

OR... if you like I can give you a breakdown of what FSU and Miami did in the 90's as a breakdown... care to take that trip down memory lane?

Back when USC had to play FSU almost every year... and EVERY year took a BEAT-DOWN...

AHHH yes the good 'OL days...

I love debate, especially when I have the stats to back me up...

keep poking the bull and you WILL get the horns...

EDIT: I needed to respond to this:

I do not put much faith in the coaching at FSU and Miami, there is simply too much talent there to not finish top 5 every year. Look at the impact pros they have and the number of pros they put out. Too much talent.

I dont know HOW I missed this quote... once again the strength of schedule for the ACC SHINES over the PAC10 and Big10...

Lets look back shall we:

Miami: WIN
Clemson: Loss bowden vs bowden... will always be a close game he learned from Daddy
NC STate: Loss Hmmm another one that will always be close why>? He learned from Papa Bowden and we really shoulda won this one.
BC: Loss We just got outplayed
Maryland: LOSS Damn kickers... we lost but shoulda won...
Virginia.. can you say BEATDOWN?? 33- ZERO
Wake Forest who you so eliquently talkd of like a real team?? 30- ZERO...
Florida: LOSS once again weatherford throws an INT in the remaining minutes of a game, we had a chance, and he choked...
UCLA: BOWL GAME WIN I thought the PAC10 was supposed to have REAL teams? 44-27

would you care for a breakdown of your boys (USC) pansy schedule?

 

[muzikool]

Wow, falconguard must have hit a nerve.

Sorry, but why do the 90's matter? The Dallas Cowboys won 3 Superbowls in the 90's, but they have not done well at all for the last 10 years. Fans and owners don't hold on to the past forever -- it's all about "what have you done for me lately?" in sports.

I'm not a USC fan, but one doesn't have to be to admit that Pete Carroll is an incredible coach. How can a comparison be drawn between the USC of the 90's, before Pete Carroll's days, and USC as it exists today? Again, what exactly is the purpose of a trip down memory lane?

Also, a loss is a loss. Any fan can say they should have won, almost won, got outplayed just that one day, got cheated by the officials -- they are all excuses and it still goes down in the L column.

Conferences, and teams for that matter, are hardly ever as strong as their fans would like to believe. It only takes a preseason game or a bowl game to point out that other conferences have equally strong teams, or teams that matchup in a way so opposite that it's hard to even compare them. This is why there are these so called "upsets" and people (like myself) calling for a playoff system every year.

 

[mlakrid]

Wow, falconguard must have hit a nerve.

Fans and owners don't hold on to the past forever -- it's all about "what have you done for me lately?" in sports.

Also, a loss is a loss. Any fan can say they should have won, almost won, got outplayed just that one day, got cheated by the officials -- they are all excuses and it still goes down in the L column.

Conferences, and teams for that matter, are hardly ever as strong as their fans would like to believe. It only takes a preseason game or a bowl game to point out that other conferences have equally strong teams, or teams that matchup in a way so opposite that it's hard to even compare them. This is why there are these so called "upsets" and people (like myself) calling for a playoff system every year.

Pete Carroll is an excellent coach; but hes NO Bowden.
Whether you are an FSU fan or not, and want to talk coaches, he is probably the BEST active coach when looking at what they have done for their respective team(s).

Only two others in Phillip Fulmer and Jo Pa are even in a light even clos to resembling the dynasty that Bobby Bowden created at Florida State.

MOST people who hate FSU (and it seems you fit the mold here) hate them because of the tremendous success which thay have had.

The last three years have been horrendous, but what about before then?
FSU has always been right there, and all the coaches who coached under Bobby Bowden have gone on to have great teams of their own...

Chuck Amato - NC State... a perrenial powerhouse defense, handing FSU its first back to back losses since Bobby began his tenure in the ACC.

Mark Richt- took Georgia with a terrible record and made them so dangerous on offense they were able to upset LSU and their bid for a national title.

Terry Bowden- Took Auburn to an undefeated season and SUED because the university failed to mention they were under investigation, and would have been the first BOWDEN bowl...

Lastly, I wear my FSU colors win, lose, rain, sleet or snow... it doesnt matter, I was there when FSU won their first championship, and they never got the credit they so deserved back when they always had in the top 5 for hardest schedules (as an independant I might add) and went to yet another "lesser" bowl game only to annihilate the other team time and time again...

If you want to talk facts... then talk facts Muzi, but dont talk around a subject and not drop off the subject of this thread and what it was about... especially when I was pointing out flaws in what other people were saying about the BCS... my point? Afford constructive criticism... which is where on your post?

I already stated on a previous post WHY other colleges and Universities DONT want to change the way things are... the BOWL games bring in MILLIONS to those teams fortunate enough to play in them. I have been pointing out why it isnt as wrong as all of you have been saying... Michigan lost, USC lost, UCLA got SMASHED by FSU...

Talk facts and stay on course...

 

[muzikool]

Why do you think I'm dropping off the subject of this thread? I started the thread and it had NOTHING to do with coaches or perennial powerhouses or who won how many championships in the 1990's. I don't care a bit about Florida State one way or another. The only Florida team I can't stand is Miami and that's only because they're a bunch of thugs. Thanks anyway for deciding I fit in the mold, though.

Again, this thread isn't about the coaches -- I just brought Pete Carroll into the conversation because you were drawing an unfair comparison between USC now and USC 10 years ago. I'm fine with talking about Bowden vs. Carroll, but not in this thread -- this thread is about the BCS.

I've understood for years WHY universities DON'T want to change the system. I didn't start this thread to argue about the schools and their respective presidents and how much money they want to make. My whole point from the beginning has been purely on the basis of how the sport is cheated by the BCS system, and in my opinion it is.

Once enough schools have been ignored by the BCS when they deserved a shot at the NC, or even a BCS bowl, then maybe these school Presidents will start to realize what a joke the system is. At that point it will be personal, and they may consider changing their stance on a playoff system.

I believe a majority of the fans want a playoff system -- just look at March Madness and how huge it is. Look at how much of the country cheered on George Mason when nobody even knew who they were just weeks earlier. Right now there is no chance for a George Mason in collegiate football, and that's a shame. Boise St. is left as the sole remaining undefeated team, and they don't even get a shot at taking on USC, Michigan, Ohio St. or Florida.

It just isn't working...

 

[madmatt]

I've never seen Ryan this in depth before.

 

[falconguard]

You can check out the final sagarin ratings on USA today, but USC is in the top 3. FSU is all the way down there at 31 or you can check this out
http://www.warrennolan.com/football/2006/sos


Either way, if FSU beat down a mediocre UCLA squad, what does that say about FSU? other than they were not playing to their talent level during the season.

Miami the same, they won their bowl game but they were 6-6 during the season, hardly a power rating in the ACC.

 

[muzikool]

I've never seen Ryan this in depth before.

Football matters.

 

[falconguard]

FYI Phllip Fullmer is 2-4 in bowl games since 1998.

 

[mlakrid]

Either way, if FSU beat down a mediocre UCLA squad, what does that say about FSU? other than they were not playing to their talent level during the season.

OK... sooo let me get this straight... UCLA is mediocre... USC is in the top 3... Last time I checked UCLA was ranked #10 at the time USC was looking at the "sweep" and got beat in every aspect of the game by UCLA...

and then there's FSU with SEVENTEEN TRUE Freshman and who lost SIX linebackers 6 people from one position...
As for FSU not playing to their potential you simply need to look at the numbers of players that had their football careers ended and had replacements come in and fill for them, and THEN look at the fact that FSU only got blown out once this year... to include BARELY losing to Florida...

I would be willing to bet FSU is ranked in the top 15 at the beggining of the season again... any takers?

 

[mlakrid]

Football can NOT be compared to basketball because there are so many ways to change a BB team... and not to mention the difference in the amount of games played...

Yes in football it is any given Sunday, BUT that is in the pros... as a matter of percentages the higher ranked team wins over 75% of the time so the rankings however skewed you or I see them are correct a MAJORITY of the time.

I believe a majority of the fans want a playoff system -- just look at March Madness and how huge it is. Look at how much of the country cheered on George Mason when nobody even knew who they were just weeks earlier. Right now there is no chance for a George Mason in collegiate football, and that's a shame. Boise St. is left as the sole remaining undefeated team, and they don't even get a shot at taking on USC, Michigan, Ohio St. or Florida.

It just isn't working...

Now, as I have said before in this thread with this statement I agree with you, my point is, no matter how much college football fans want it to change it won't happen unless we have a Colorado/Georgia Tech National Title split type of scenario again...

Do we need extra games... absolutely, but until they fix the situation with the money involved sadly, its only a pipe dream...

 

[falconguard]

That game was the best game Karl Dorrell called in his time at UCLA. That game saved his job for the time being. It was a rivalry game. USC graduates one senior on this defensive team and had 15 true freshmen get playing time. This year alone they lost 4 starting fullbacks and were forced to play converted linebackers and freshmen. So if Pete can put together a 10 win season why can't Bobby?

 

[mlakrid]

That game was the best game Karl Dorrell called in his time at UCLA. That game saved his job for the time being. It was a rivalry game. USC graduates one senior on this defensive team and had 15 true freshmen get playing time. This year alone they lost 4 starting fullbacks and were forced to play converted linebackers and freshmen. So if Pete can put together a 10 win season why can't Bobby?

I dont know how many times I have to say it:

STRENGTH of SCHEDULE...

 

[falconguard]

What are you on about?
http://www.warrennolan.com/football/2006/npi
Same things reflected on the Sagarin ratings. Usc was no.3 Florida state was 59


Can you share those beers your drinking ro whatever alcohol you have on hand. that way at least we both will be buzzed.

 

[mlakrid]

What are you on about?
http://www.warrennolan.com/football/2006/npi
Same things reflected on the Sagarin ratings. Usc was no.3 Florida state was 59


Can you share those beers your drinking ro whatever alcohol you have on hand. that way at least we both will be buzzed.

Ok im done arguing with you, if you want to antagonize and walk that tightrope towards flaming somone do it on your own time...

 

[muzikool]

Well, this was almost a good discussion. I think falconguard provided some pretty solid stats to defend his argument, and I think mlakrid made some good points as well. All in all I think we're in agreement on much of this, but when it comes to defending conferences or teams there's little objectivity, although I'm a Big 12 guy and I didn't bring up the conference once.

Seeing as how the discussion is evolving into attack-mode, I suppose I'll shut this one down. See you guys next bowl season.

 

[madmatt]

Dang! You guys are passionate about this stuff.