Where Vista Fails

napalmnthemorning · April 21st, 2006

--Paul Thurrott
April 19, 2006

Wow! Paul really opens up on Vista in this article. A little surprised but we've all tested this thing. I guess it reminds me of when Toto pulls back the curtain in the wizard of oz to see the king pulling the handles to make the great and powerful Oz talk.

Windows Vista February 2006 CTP (Build 5308/5342) Review, Part 5: Where Vista Fails

" Promises were made. Excitement was generated. None of it, as it turns out, was worth a damn. From a technical standpoint, the version of Windows Vista we will receive is a sad shell of its former self, a shadow. One might still call it a major Windows release. I will, for various reasons. The kernel was rewritten. The graphics subsystem is substantially improved, if a little obviously modeled after that in Mac OS X. Heck, half of the features of Windows Vista seem to have been lifted from Apple's marketing materials.

Shame on you, Microsoft. Shame on you, but not just for not doing better. We expect you to copy Apple, just as Apple (and Linux) in its turn copies you. But we do not and should not expect to be promised the world, only to be given a warmed over copy of Mac OS X Tiger in return. Windows Vista is a disappointment. There is no way to sugarcoat that very real truth. "

**kcnychief** · April 21st, 2006

I read that when it was posted, can't believe it was yesterday, seems like so long ago

I was a bit shocked that Paul was so brutal with his honesty, but that is what makes him such a great writer

napalmnthemorning · April 21st, 2006

Originally Posted by kcnychief

I read that when it was posted, can't believe it was yesterday, seems like so long ago

I was a bit shocked that Paul was so brutal with his honesty, but that is what makes him such a great writer

Exactly kcnychief. Sort of took me for a loop. And since it was the great and powerful Paul Thurrott saying it made it even more suprising. I guess I'm just impressed to see someone who obviously has connections and ties to MS actually have to courage to speak up and make a constructive honest opinion and not be afraid of repercussions.

**NetRyder** · April 21st, 2006

At least this write-up is better than his now infamous "Vista is a train-wreck" rant (which was followed by a "Vista is a guaranteed home run!" soon after).

He makes some decent points and valid arguments, and there are some things I disagree with, but I think the conclusion brings out the point he's actually trying to make. It's not that Vista is bad in an absolute sense; it just never got to what the original vision was (I wouldn't call them promises, really).

OK, let's not get silly here. I don't hate Windows Vista, and I certainly don't hate Microsoft for disappointing me and countless other customers with a product that doesn't even come close to meeting its original promises. I'm sure the company learned something from this debacle, and hopefully it will be more open and honest about what it can and cannot do in the future. But you'd have to be special kind of stupid to look at Windows Vista and see it as the be-all, end-all of operating systems. It some ways, Windows Vista actually will exceed Mac OS X and Linux, but not to the depth we were promised. Instead, Windows Vista will do what so many other Windows releases have done, and simply offer consumers and business users a few major changes and many subtle or minor updates. That's not horrible. It's just not what was promised. Because it failed so obviously with Vista, my guess is that Microsoft is a bit gun shy about major OS releases and will be for some time. And that's too bad. Windows Vista was Microsoft's first chance since Windows 95 to reach for the golden ring. It may be another decade before they try again.

**kcnychief** · April 21st, 2006

I think the real area where they failed is that they were talking/hyping the OS almost a full 4 years before it's eventual release

Any team can talk about what they think they can do that far ahead of time. Sad part is if they delivered all features they promised, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Now that they have pulled out and failed on others, that is where the scrutiny lies.

**j79zlr** · April 21st, 2006

LOL, MS has had what 5 years for this OS, they've pushed the release date back time and time again, and now the only real feature left that is worth upgrading for, UAP, is broken.

I can't see anyone upgrading, atleast anyone in their right mind. I guess MS still has the new PC market.

I actually find it really funny that you fanboi's are agreeing with him? [confused]

**Khayman** · April 21st, 2006

*Khaymans Summary*
Ahem

"WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE"

the end

**technokid88** · April 21st, 2006

Bad Microsoft lol.. thats this guys fav words

pluto · April 21st, 2006

Among these missing features are the various Vista Ultimate Extras (features and services), including a Texas Hold-em game that was developed by the people behind Windows Calendar and Sidebar, Virtual PC Express, Media Center support for the Xbox 360 Media Center Extender, automatic hard disk defragmentation, themed slideshows, Windows Movie Maker HD, and so on.

He is concerned about the lack of a stupid assed game?

This guy rants and raves about stuff and pretends to have something to say. But it just boils down to this:

He is full of sh*t.

Seriously. Ive always thought this about him. I cant read anything by him with out loosing interest and skipping to the parts which are relevant to the topic title. I had to skip a few paragraphs before I read anything remotely related to where Vista fails.

As I say, he is full of sh*t. He cant write either. Theres very little content in what he says.

**Grandmaster** · April 21st, 2006

Originally Posted by j79zlr

I actually find it really funny that you fanboi's are agreeing with him? [confused]

Have you thought about the possibility that they maybe aren't fanboys?

**technokid88** · April 21st, 2006

Originally Posted by pluto

He is concerned about the lack of a stupid assed game?

This guy rants and raves about stuff and pretends to have something to say. But it just boils down to this:

He is full of sh*t.

Seriously. Ive always thought this about him. I cant read anything by him with out loosing interest and skipping to the parts which are relevant to the topic title. I had to skip a few paragraphs before I read anything remotely related to where Vista fails.

As I say, he is full of sh*t. He cant write either. Theres very little content in what he says.

I totally agree with you

**Sazar** · April 21st, 2006

I think that m$ has done well since '95.

Namely win2k and xp have been decent releases (even though xp was a graphical re-hash of 2k).

But yes, he does have valid points about WHY he says what he does about Vista.

I mean come on people, he is absolutely right about the info.

It's the same reaction I am having to sony and their gargantuan promises about the ps3 beign more powerful than R2-D2, only to find out it's more like a neutered AIBO without the cuteness.

I still haven't gotten my invite for the beta thing (

) but the info on the o/s out there, especially the graphical changes, are very nice.

I do wish they will make the gui more easily changeable, rather than requiring hacks. A disclaimer in their EULA should handle potential risks from viruses/malware/attacks.

**NetRyder** · April 21st, 2006

I think people are misunderstanding Paul's intentions. The anti-MS crowd is taking the whole thing out of context and making it sound like this is a big deal because Paul Thurrott called Vista a failure as a whole. He didn't. He's simply being balanced and pointing out the good and bad sides, just like any decent reviewer should. He's a little disappointed by the fact that Vista has not quite become what the original Longhorn project set out to do, and I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Grandmaster

Have you thought about the possibility that they maybe aren't fanboys?

Come on, man. We're not part of the "OMG M$ sux!!" bandwagon, so we automatically become "fanboys" because there's nothing in between the two extremes, you know? </sarcasm>

**Mastershakes** · April 21st, 2006

To add on to Net's comment, remember how long it took before XP was a rock solid OS? To me it's been relatively stable since I installed it in October 2002 - but it became real stable to me after SP2.

I will expect the same from Vista, and on that note, IE7.

**Sazar** · April 21st, 2006

Net, we are an XP featured community or whatever. By default we are fanboi's

Wrt XP being stable, I think the o/s was actually very stable. The issue was the lack of 3'rd party drivers (and windows driver list) for all the hardware out there. At least that was MY issue with XP when I first switched over.

That's why I dual-booted with win2k and xp for almost a year before purging win2k.

**technokid88** · April 21st, 2006

When he wrote that article, he should of cut some of the BS out of it. When i was reading the first few paragraphs i was like what the hell is this: Then skipped to the other points. I think Vista wont be the all in wonder that MS hoped it would be. Actully MS is a big company and plans on growing, so they are not going to throw it all in one product, They will give everyone little at a time. Wait till the Vista 3000 comes out lol....

**Sazar** · April 21st, 2006

Originally Posted by technokid88

When he wrote that article, he should of cut some of the BS out of it. When i was reading the first few paragraphs i was like what the hell is this: Then skipped to the other points. I think Vista wont be the all in wonder that MS hoped it would be. Actully MS is a big company and plans on growing, so they are not going to throw it all in one product, They will give everyone little at a time. Wait till the Vista 3000 comes out lol....

His point was that of all the things promised, many of the GOOD ones have been cut out to allow for delivery of the product on time. Sounds ludicrous since the o/s is sooo delayed already but c'est la vie.

I don't buy your bit about m$ not putting it together with all the features it said it would coz it wants to introduce them later. That would make absolutely no business sense when it is trying to set itself up in a leadership position, technology-wise.

**technokid88** · April 21st, 2006

Well they already hold a leadership position. Example HP

In the early 90's HP used to have technology to produce printers that printed very fast at very low prices. But they never put these prints into the market till the yr 2000.

**Sazar** · April 21st, 2006

You can't hold things back in the market today.

It is VERY different from what it was in the 90's.

HP btw still makes a substantial amount of it's margin from printers.

**technokid88** · April 21st, 2006

I know i dont agree with this, it is just my guess <you never know what big corporations are thinking>

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #1
napalmnthemorning OSNN Senior Addict Joined: June 2002 Location: OREGON Posts: 719 Reputation: 60 Power: 125	Where Vista Fails --Paul Thurrott April 19, 2006 Wow! Paul really opens up on Vista in this article. A little surprised but we've all tested this thing. I guess it reminds me of when Toto pulls back the curtain in the wizard of oz to see the king pulling the handles to make the great and powerful Oz talk. Windows Vista February 2006 CTP (Build 5308/5342) Review, Part 5: Where Vista Fails " Promises were made. Excitement was generated. None of it, as it turns out, was worth a damn. From a technical standpoint, the version of Windows Vista we will receive is a sad shell of its former self, a shadow. One might still call it a major Windows release. I will, for various reasons. The kernel was rewritten. The graphics subsystem is substantially improved, if a little obviously modeled after that in Mac OS X. Heck, half of the features of Windows Vista seem to have been lifted from Apple's marketing materials. Shame on you, Microsoft. Shame on you, but not just for not doing better. We expect you to copy Apple, just as Apple (and Linux) in its turn copies you. But we do not and should not expect to be promised the world, only to be given a warmed over copy of Mac OS X Tiger in return. Windows Vista is a disappointment. There is no way to sugarcoat that very real truth. "

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #2
kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Joined: April 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16,949 Reputation: 4941 Power: 302	Re: Where Vista Fails I read that when it was posted, can't believe it was yesterday, seems like so long ago I was a bit shocked that Paul was so brutal with his honesty, but that is what makes him such a great writer XBOX Live Gamertag: kcnychief

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #3
napalmnthemorning OSNN Senior Addict Joined: June 2002 Location: OREGON Posts: 719 Reputation: 60 Power: 125	Re: Where Vista Fails Originally Posted by kcnychief I read that when it was posted, can't believe it was yesterday, seems like so long ago I was a bit shocked that Paul was so brutal with his honesty, but that is what makes him such a great writer Exactly kcnychief. Sort of took me for a loop. And since it was the great and powerful Paul Thurrott saying it made it even more suprising. I guess I'm just impressed to see someone who obviously has connections and ties to MS actually have to courage to speak up and make a constructive honest opinion and not be afraid of repercussions.

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #4
NetRyder Tech Junkie Joined: April 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 13,256 Reputation: 4260 Power: 294	Re: Where Vista Fails At least this write-up is better than his now infamous "Vista is a train-wreck" rant (which was followed by a "Vista is a guaranteed home run!" soon after). He makes some decent points and valid arguments, and there are some things I disagree with, but I think the conclusion brings out the point he's actually trying to make. It's not that Vista is bad in an absolute sense; it just never got to what the original vision was (I wouldn't call them promises, really). OK, let's not get silly here. I don't hate Windows Vista, and I certainly don't hate Microsoft for disappointing me and countless other customers with a product that doesn't even come close to meeting its original promises. I'm sure the company learned something from this debacle, and hopefully it will be more open and honest about what it can and cannot do in the future. But you'd have to be special kind of stupid to look at Windows Vista and see it as the be-all, end-all of operating systems. It some ways, Windows Vista actually will exceed Mac OS X and Linux, but not to the depth we were promised. Instead, Windows Vista will do what so many other Windows releases have done, and simply offer consumers and business users a few major changes and many subtle or minor updates. That's not horrible. It's just not what was promised. Because it failed so obviously with Vista, my guess is that Microsoft is a bit gun shy about major OS releases and will be for some time. And that's too bad. Windows Vista was Microsoft's first chance since Windows 95 to reach for the golden ring. It may be another decade before they try again. http://kunal.kundaje.net

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #5
kcnychief █▄█ ▀█▄ █ Joined: April 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16,949 Reputation: 4941 Power: 302	Re: Where Vista Fails I think the real area where they failed is that they were talking/hyping the OS almost a full 4 years before it's eventual release Any team can talk about what they think they can do that far ahead of time. Sad part is if they delivered all features they promised, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Now that they have pulled out and failed on others, that is where the scrutiny lies. XBOX Live Gamertag: kcnychief

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April 21st, 2006	Top \| #6
j79zlr Glaanies script monkey Joined: February 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,725 Reputation: 1520 Power: 152	Re: Where Vista Fails LOL, MS has had what 5 years for this OS, they've pushed the release date back time and time again, and now the only real feature left that is worth upgrading for, UAP, is broken. I can't see anyone upgrading, atleast anyone in their right mind. I guess MS still has the new PC market. I actually find it really funny that you fanboi's are agreeing with him? [confused] http://www.j79zlr.com

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #7
Khayman I'm sorry Hal... Joined: January 2002 Location: England Posts: 5,514 Reputation: 1210 Power: 191	Re: Where Vista Fails Khaymans Summary Ahem "WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE" the end "I'm on the server side. I don't know what side you're on"

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #8
technokid88 Part of a System Joined: February 2006 Location: In a world without windows Posts: 740 Reputation: 867 Power: 88	Re: Where Vista Fails Bad Microsoft lol.. thats this guys fav words "If you've done things right,people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" www.playfart.com www.playhawk.com

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #9
pluto OSNN Addict Joined: February 2004 Posts: 202 Reputation: 80 Power: 100	Re: Where Vista Fails Among these missing features are the various Vista Ultimate Extras (features and services), including a Texas Hold-em game that was developed by the people behind Windows Calendar and Sidebar, Virtual PC Express, Media Center support for the Xbox 360 Media Center Extender, automatic hard disk defragmentation, themed slideshows, Windows Movie Maker HD, and so on. He is concerned about the lack of a stupid assed game? This guy rants and raves about stuff and pretends to have something to say. But it just boils down to this: He is full of sht. Seriously. Ive always thought this about him. I cant read anything by him with out loosing interest and skipping to the parts which are relevant to the topic title. I had to skip a few paragraphs before I read anything remotely related to where Vista fails. As I say, he is full of sht. He cant write either. Theres very little content in what he says. Aw' right baw jaws.

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #10
Grandmaster Electronica Addict Joined: February 2002 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 10,574 Reputation: 2960 Power: 257	Re: Where Vista Fails Originally Posted by j79zlr I actually find it really funny that you fanboi's are agreeing with him? [confused] Have you thought about the possibility that they maybe aren't fanboys?

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #11
technokid88 Part of a System Joined: February 2006 Location: In a world without windows Posts: 740 Reputation: 867 Power: 88	Re: Where Vista Fails Originally Posted by pluto He is concerned about the lack of a stupid assed game? This guy rants and raves about stuff and pretends to have something to say. But it just boils down to this: He is full of sht. Seriously. Ive always thought this about him. I cant read anything by him with out loosing interest and skipping to the parts which are relevant to the topic title. I had to skip a few paragraphs before I read anything remotely related to where Vista fails. As I say, he is full of sht. He cant write either. Theres very little content in what he says. I totally agree with you "If you've done things right,people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" www.playfart.com www.playhawk.com

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #12
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,880 Reputation: 4110 Power: 309	Re: Where Vista Fails I think that m$ has done well since '95. Namely win2k and xp have been decent releases (even though xp was a graphical re-hash of 2k). But yes, he does have valid points about WHY he says what he does about Vista. I mean come on people, he is absolutely right about the info. It's the same reaction I am having to sony and their gargantuan promises about the ps3 beign more powerful than R2-D2, only to find out it's more like a neutered AIBO without the cuteness. I still haven't gotten my invite for the beta thing ( ) but the info on the o/s out there, especially the graphical changes, are very nice. I do wish they will make the gui more easily changeable, rather than requiring hacks. A disclaimer in their EULA should handle potential risks from viruses/malware/attacks. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #13
NetRyder Tech Junkie Joined: April 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 13,256 Reputation: 4260 Power: 294	Re: Where Vista Fails I think people are misunderstanding Paul's intentions. The anti-MS crowd is taking the whole thing out of context and making it sound like this is a big deal because Paul Thurrott called Vista a failure as a whole. He didn't. He's simply being balanced and pointing out the good and bad sides, just like any decent reviewer should. He's a little disappointed by the fact that Vista has not quite become what the original Longhorn project set out to do, and I don't think anyone can disagree with that. Originally Posted by Grandmaster Have you thought about the possibility that they maybe aren't fanboys? Come on, man. We're not part of the "OMG M$ sux!!" bandwagon, so we automatically become "fanboys" because there's nothing in between the two extremes, you know? </sarcasm> http://kunal.kundaje.net

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #14
Mastershakes OSNN Veteran Addict Joined: July 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,721 Reputation: 1040 Power: 120	Re: Where Vista Fails To add on to Net's comment, remember how long it took before XP was a rock solid OS? To me it's been relatively stable since I installed it in October 2002 - but it became real stable to me after SP2. I will expect the same from Vista, and on that note, IE7. So many idiots - so little time

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #15
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,880 Reputation: 4110 Power: 309	Re: Where Vista Fails Net, we are an XP featured community or whatever. By default we are fanboi's Wrt XP being stable, I think the o/s was actually very stable. The issue was the lack of 3'rd party drivers (and windows driver list) for all the hardware out there. At least that was MY issue with XP when I first switched over. That's why I dual-booted with win2k and xp for almost a year before purging win2k. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

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April 21st, 2006	Top \| #16
technokid88 Part of a System Joined: February 2006 Location: In a world without windows Posts: 740 Reputation: 867 Power: 88	Re: Where Vista Fails When he wrote that article, he should of cut some of the BS out of it. When i was reading the first few paragraphs i was like what the hell is this: Then skipped to the other points. I think Vista wont be the all in wonder that MS hoped it would be. Actully MS is a big company and plans on growing, so they are not going to throw it all in one product, They will give everyone little at a time. Wait till the Vista 3000 comes out lol.... "If you've done things right,people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" www.playfart.com www.playhawk.com

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #17
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,880 Reputation: 4110 Power: 309	Re: Where Vista Fails Originally Posted by technokid88 When he wrote that article, he should of cut some of the BS out of it. When i was reading the first few paragraphs i was like what the hell is this: Then skipped to the other points. I think Vista wont be the all in wonder that MS hoped it would be. Actully MS is a big company and plans on growing, so they are not going to throw it all in one product, They will give everyone little at a time. Wait till the Vista 3000 comes out lol.... His point was that of all the things promised, many of the GOOD ones have been cut out to allow for delivery of the product on time. Sounds ludicrous since the o/s is sooo delayed already but c'est la vie. I don't buy your bit about m$ not putting it together with all the features it said it would coz it wants to introduce them later. That would make absolutely no business sense when it is trying to set itself up in a leadership position, technology-wise. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #18
technokid88 Part of a System Joined: February 2006 Location: In a world without windows Posts: 740 Reputation: 867 Power: 88	Re: Where Vista Fails Well they already hold a leadership position. Example HP In the early 90's HP used to have technology to produce printers that printed very fast at very low prices. But they never put these prints into the market till the yr 2000. "If you've done things right,people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" www.playfart.com www.playhawk.com

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #19
Sazar F@H - Is it in you? Joined: April 2002 Location: Between Austin and Tampa Posts: 14,880 Reputation: 4110 Power: 309	Re: Where Vista Fails You can't hold things back in the market today. It is VERY different from what it was in the 90's. HP btw still makes a substantial amount of it's margin from printers. Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home, is it in you?

April 21st, 2006	Top \| #20
technokid88 Part of a System Joined: February 2006 Location: In a world without windows Posts: 740 Reputation: 867 Power: 88	Re: Where Vista Fails I know i dont agree with this, it is just my guess <you never know what big corporations are thinking> "If you've done things right,people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" www.playfart.com www.playhawk.com