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Old June 27th, 2006 Top | #61
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Same processor. Could it be the 110 volt net? That should affect the powersupply more than anything, but in these strange times, who knows.
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Old August 19th, 2006 Top | #62
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Sorry to interrupt, but if the System Idle Process ''tells'' the processor to skip cycles, how come the CPU is colder when there is no load? (How come the CPU eats less power?) And vice-versa.

?
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Old August 19th, 2006 Top | #63
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

the system idle doesn't tell the processor to skip cycles

it reports the cycles that are not being used by any thread


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Old October 9th, 2006 Top | #64
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Ok, first post here on OSNN Forum.


The reason I am posting? I have a serious problem, and not just in gaming.

I run: SpeedFan & FreeRam XP Pro. My only real extra's. What is the problem?


I started noticing my problems playing WoW. What was happening? I purchased this 3.45 gig p4, pumped money into the full 2 GBs of RAM. . . everything went well.

But I don't exactly remember when it began.
Right now: 94% CPU usage in TASK MANAGER/PROCESSES
under PERFORMANCE: my CPU spikes from 4% - 88% to 27% - 70%.

So my performance says my CPU is being used, my FREERAM XP says the same, in a spiking behavior; has the SYSTEM IDLE PROCESS begun using rather than monitoring unused CPU power?

Because I've read from the thread:
http://www.devhood.com/messages/mess...0874&current=0

As well as many others and am YET to find a solution which will give me back control of my computer, return me to my previous load up times or let my system run properly, im constantly being halted, nearly to a stop whether gaming or or switching programs my system is running like a pentium 1.

?!!!?!?!?!?!!?!? I downloaded and ran Process Explorer to find that 80% of SIP were red issues. I also am unsure if I can disable IRC ports in BIOS like I read in the other thread? Perhaps this is another solution.

I am vexed, stressed, and near giving up.

dominik j
www.img-81.com/
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Old November 9th, 2006 Top | #65
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Hi, Perris and all.

I'm new to this forum and not that deep into how Windows works. Found your explanation very illuminating, not because I understood all of it (I'm a bit of a Homer when it comes to maths, etc), but the conclusion was just what I wanted to know!
However, I would like to ask one question (which may be really dumb from your perspective!). Is the CPU figure for 'System Idle' the only process which reports in this way? All other processes listed under CPU show zeros when the machine is idle, so m I right to assume that these zeroes mean that they are using no CPU resources?

Good to become a member - the forum looks like it will be very interesting and useful.

Ian
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Old December 6th, 2006 Top | #66
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

OK. I thought I understood the concept of System Idle Process but realize I don't.

Some guy posted this online recently as a solution to "clear memory," but that doesn't seem accurate if the SysIdleProc only shows the percentage of idle time (i.e., available CPU time) available moment by moment.

I tried his "trick" but would like to know exactly what it really does.
----------------
HERE IT IS:
Create a shortcut for this exactly as shown above and name the shortcut anything:

%windir%\system32\rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks

When you double-click it, it will clean out the SystemIdle Process of its accumulated loitering junk (but this doesn't seem accurate to me).
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Old December 6th, 2006 Top | #67
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Originally Posted by generatech View Post
OK. I thought I understood the concept of System Idle Process but realize I don't.

Some guy posted this online recently as a solution to "clear memory," but that doesn't seem accurate if the SysIdleProc only shows the percentage of idle time (i.e., available CPU time) available moment by moment.

I tried his "trick" but would like to know exactly what it really does.
----------------
HERE IT IS:
Create a shortcut for this exactly as shown above and name the shortcut anything:

%windir%\system32\rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks

When you double-click it, it will clean out the SystemIdle Process of its accumulated loitering junk (but this doesn't seem accurate to me).
that's a fair mistake he made, but a mistake never the less

his command tells the computer to perform the idle tasks immediately instead of when the system is idle

idle tasks have nothing to do with system idle process, it just sounds the same

Originally Posted by teh mskb

Idle Task Scheduling: The ProcessIdleTask API
The file placement optimization, which is done no more often than once every three days, is an example of a task that is carried out when the system is deemed to be idle. System Restore and other features of Windows XP also attempt to defer some work until the system is deemed to be idle. There are also some done-once-after-setup work items that also operate under the Idle Task Scheduling mechanisms.

All of these "idle tasks" are controllable by a system API in advapi32.dll, ProcessIdleTasks. The APIs sole purpose is to allow benchmarks a simple way to force any pending idle tasks to be executed immediately, without having to wait a lengthy period of time.

The API ProcessIdleTasks can be called in one of two ways, from the command line or synchronously from a program. To call ProcessIdleTasks from the command line, use this syntax:

Rundll32.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks
When called from the command line, the ProcessIdleTasks work is done in the background asynchronously. It can take 10 to 15 minutes for idle tasks to complete. Task Manager will report processes running, and the disk will likely be active during this time.

The ProcessIdleTasks API takes no arguments and returns a standard Win32 error code. The definition is:

DWORD
ProcessIdleTasks()

The API itself is synchronous, so it wont return until the idle tasks have completed.


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Old December 6th, 2006 Top | #68
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Thanks for your explanation and quote about Idle Tasks.

That resolves my confusion (at least about that).
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Old December 10th, 2006 Top | #69
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

On my system, there are times when simply opening a folder can take more than 45 seconds. When I look at resource usage with the task manager, SIP is taking > 90%. If SIP is really "cpu availability", but no other tasks are able to run, where are all the cycles going?
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Old December 30th, 2006 Top | #70
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Thanks Perres - very well explained!! Appreciated!!
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Old January 6th, 2007 Top | #71
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

I'm having a similar problem with my CPU usage getting eaten up. I have about 36 process running. I just ran a registry cleaner so I should be good there. My CPU usage is at 85 % with my system idle being 85-95%. I run XP Pro. As soon as I open my browser my CPU usage go's to 100 % until the page is loaded. I ran norton antivirus and came up empty. does anyone have any ideas??

below is my current configuration


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Old January 6th, 2007 Top | #72
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Download and install Process Explorer then you can get a better idea of what is using the CPU.
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Old January 6th, 2007 Top | #73
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

thanks I'll try it
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Old January 6th, 2007 Top | #74
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

I downloaded process explored and it shows that on an average, 80% of my cpu capacity is being used for hardware interupts. What does this mean and what can be causing it????.....I'll check for conflicts
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Old February 3rd, 2007 Top | #75
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Explain this one.

The graph on the performance tab does not represent what is shown in the Processes tab.

If I put the system to work at something CPU intensive, the graph (and the CPU usage snapshot) will report steady high usage, 96-100% consistantly. Meanwhile, the system idle process will report 40-60% on the Processes tab.

I JUST formatted this thing not very long ago.
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Old February 8th, 2007 Top | #76
 
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Default Re: "System Idle Process" explained

This is first post and I hope that people will give answer for the difficulty we are facing

1. I am havng machine (XP pro, p4-Hyperthreading) and as per the system's task manager the "System Idel Process" is showing 98% usage.
2. I run a antivirus check and a antispy program simultaneously.(for approx. 2 hrs they run)
3. In between i want to open a notepad and a Firefox and want to use them. A GTalk messenger is running in background. (I do toggle between them frequently in these 2 hrs.)

*Now the problem I am facing is..........................................................
The task manger showing 55% for "System Idel Process". At this point I am using firefox and want to switch to notepad which I used before 2 mins.

When I do switching the notepad takes literaly 30 seconds to just show up so I can Edit it.

Now a popup arrives from gtalk, and i am not getting the contents(message) for next two minutes.
.....................................................................................................

Above was only one scenario. This also happens on a simple normal running (so the application running/responding slow).

One thing I want to say that, same scenario with same config (on Other) pc do not produce such result!
There the "System Idel process" is present but do not show up if computer is Idel.
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Old April 12th, 2007 Top | #77
 
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Default Re: system idle process explained

Originally Posted by perris View Post
lots of miss information concerning the system idle process, so, for members of ntfs, I'll give you the skinny...you'll definitely have a heads up on this much not understood feature of xp

if you'd like to do more research, the Microsoft publication "inside windows 2000" is an unbelievable wealth of information and reference

everyone knows, Windows NT is multi threading operating system, which in everyday language just means you can do a bunch of different things on your box, with the illusion that everything is happening simultanously...an amazing ability this is indeed, and everyone should learn to take advantage of it...do not follow that old advice and force your computer to run one only thing at a time, your computer allows you to be so much more productive, it's designed to run many things at once...but that's another discussion.

the reality is, your standard chip can only do one thing at a time, but, it switches back and forth between threads so fast, and so often, that everything looks like it virtually (I love that word) happens at once.

this switching back and forth is managed with a set of algorithms known as "the NT scheduler".

the scheduler simply looks at the priorities on the various threads that are active...it then gives each thread it's share of CPU time, ( this unit of time is known as a quantum )...the quantum length can be adjusted in NT, but that's the word we use when speaking of the time unit the CPU spends with any given thread. Quantum lengths are also devided, and a thread will be preempted and forced to give it up it's remaining quantum immediatly if a higher priority shows up.

the scheduler doesn't look at what process a thread belongs to, it just looks at the priority of a thread...pretty simple...the scheduler then executes the highest priority...this high priority thread will decay a level for every quantum completed...however, the level can be re bumped depending on the program and how it's referenced by the user....for instance as an extreme example, a keyboard stroke can at times bump a priority on an idle thread that is waiting for that stroke by 6 points.

The scheduler will be able to prevent threads from starving due to a priority lower then everything else, (When real time threads are not ready to execute) and the scheduler will make sure every thread gets it's share of CPU...lower priority threads are bumped sometimes to level 15... they can even be given more then one quanta if they haven't had a quantum for too long a period.

there are also other policies that insure lower priorities get a quantum (when real time threads are not ready to execute)... as mentioned, every thread in the 1-15 range will decay a level (to a point set by the program) every time it completes a quantum...and of course, these threads can always get bumped up levels according to use, and so refreshed in priority as well as decayed.

programs also voluntarily give up their priority, and programs get "blocked "from even being considered for a quantum when they are not ready to execute.

"not ready to execute", or "blocked" threads use no CPU time...they incur no CPU overhead and there is no CPU management overhead, the overhead of the NT scheduler is a constant set of algorithms that always run....when a thread or process incurs zero CPU, it's as if it's not even running at all as far as CPU resource liability

if a number of threads have the same priority, these threads are just executed in a round robin fashion along that respective priority.

of course, there's allot of sophistication involved with these scheduling policies, but you now have an accurate model

fyi... even most people that know about CPU scheduling in NT are under the impression that there are 31 priorities in the NT kernel

that's incorrect

there are 32

there is 1 through 15 for the common apps, 16 through 31 for critical threads, and then there is a priority "zero"

in NT, the higher the number a priority, the higher the priority...this is a random choice, and similar to the vms's OS's, (after all, it is David cutler that is responsible for nt)...the reverse could have been true, it's just the way Microsoft did it.

as told, priorities 1 through 15 are the dynamic priorities that typical applications get assigned..the threads in this realm change priorities all along, getting bumped and degraded according to need by the os...these are dynamic in nature.

16 through 31 not dynamic, this is what we mean by "real time" when talking about a threads priority...the priority of real time threads is constant...the os does not change the priorities of these threads..these priorities are used for operations that are time critical...in addition, users with administrative authority can also set real time priorities for applications on their own

so now I finally get to the next level of priority

this is priority level 0 (zero)

your system idle process gets a priority of zero.

This process is a single thread running on each processor, which has the sole task of accounting for processor time when the system isn't processing other threads. In Task Manager, expect this process to account for the majority of processor time.

with priority zero, when no other thread is executing, priority zero gets a quantum.

and so, here is the biggest misinterpretation with the system idle process

if you open your task manager while the CPU is hardly working, and look to processes, you will notice that your system idle process is taking 90% or such of the CPU time.


HA

THIS FIGURE IS MISUNDERSTOOD!!!!

this figure represents how much cpu time has not even been requested by anything you are currently working with
Thanks for this very informative post. I've also read that hyper threading technology plays into this as well. Intel splits the processor but there is still only one support system. If the software running doesn't utilize hyper threading properly it can actually slow the program down because it's trying to divvy up processor Time not only between multi tasked programs but in theory it's also trying to divvy up system resources between what the operating system thinks is Two processors. At least this is what I get out of the things I've read. I'm not sure what the newer duo core processor Intel brought out is or how it works but I'm sure it still only has one support system to handle all the CPU activity.
I guess the only way you could truly have a computer utilizing dual cores would be to slave to CPU's together, I have a Headache... ;O)
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Old April 18th, 2007 Top | #78
 
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Wink Re: "System Idle Process" explained

Originally Posted by abhishekshinde007 View Post
This is first post and I hope that people will give answer for the difficulty we are facing

1. I am havng machine (XP pro, p4-Hyperthreading) and as per the system's task manager the "System Idel Process" is showing 98% usage.
2. I run a antivirus check and a antispy program simultaneously.(for approx. 2 hrs they run)
3. In between i want to open a notepad and a Firefox and want to use them. A GTalk messenger is running in background. (I do toggle between them frequently in these 2 hrs.)

*Now the problem I am facing is..........................................................
The task manger showing 55% for "System Idel Process". At this point I am using firefox and want to switch to notepad which I used before 2 mins.

When I do switching the notepad takes literaly 30 seconds to just show up so I can Edit it.

Now a popup arrives from gtalk, and i am not getting the contents(message) for next two minutes.
.....................................................................................................

Above was only one scenario. This also happens on a simple normal running (so the application running/responding slow).

One thing I want to say that, same scenario with same config (on Other) pc do not produce such result!
There the "System Idel process" is present but do not show up if computer is Idel.
Computer hardware is only as reliable as the People who invent and manufacture it.
Computer software is only as stable as the People who write it and input the data.
This is why we have such problems with PC's and why your system idle process really isn't the cause of your problem but it is a symptom.
If you want flawless performance with limited interactivity with the rest of the World then go get an Apple. That's why most serious computers are Apples. They work flawlessly, among themselves. Can we say PROPRIETARY?
I know in the last few Years Apple has tried to play nice but they just can't let go.
You wanna work hard and party? Go for a PC.
You wanna work hard and stay at Home? Get an Apple, it's as simple as that.
The problem with PC's vs Apple is this very situation. Apple is one entity. PC's are many and diverse. You have the manufacturer of the Motherboard, the manufacturer of the Chip set that goes on the Motherboard, The manufacturer of the video Card, Sound Card, Ram, external input devices i.e. Ports, Modem (does anyone use Modems anymore?), Hard Drives, CD and DVD drives, video Monitor and last but not least, the manufacturer of the software that runs the operating system as well as all the other programs that make a PC what we want it to be, something productive and entertaining.
I call this too many cooks in the Kitchen working on the same dish using recipes from different cultures. In the end you might get a great pizza, but sometimes there are things on it that just don't taste right. We eat it anyway but it's just not right.
That's why Apple works so well but can't play in the Back Yard with the other Kids, it has to go to a private School with the other Apples. They are very bright but limited when it comes to socializing and having fun.
PC's on the other Hand are fun fun fun! They play with everyone well, but not with one perfectly. It's like in real life. We can get along with just about anyone, including Apples but we have to compromise. Apples on the other Hand don't compromise and that's what makes them great! It also makes them snobs, that's why I can never bring myself to buy an Apple, I'm a People Person. I like freedom to chose who I play with.
I only wish more had invited IBM's OS2 Warp into the Back Yard when they came over to play but the majority chose Windows instead.
Any Computer is only as good as the operating system that controls it.
The PC's master is Microsoft.
Microsoft passes out it's game Book to whoever wants to play. Only problem is this, sometimes the Game Book gets updated. If the other Kids on the Block don't get the new Book they tend to play the Games in strange manners.
If you think about it, it's an awesome thing that PC's even boot up, given the circumstances.
Most good players really keep up with the newest Game Books so there's hardly ever a problem with the Game. Then there are the slower, lazy Kids that figure the Book they have is O-Tay, that's why some software and hardware works so well while others suck.
This is true with all aspects of PC Dom. You have Windows trying to control a machine with standard rules. If the machine doesn't understand the rules bad things happen. This is why on some machines windows acts flawlessly while in others it seems like a milestone just to launch Notepad.
Also, the machine is only as powerful as it's peripherals will allow.
Don't expect a Pentium 2 with 250meg of Ram and Motherboard Video to run Win XP and Doom 3 flawlessly.
But also keep in Mind that the mega PC you purchased from Fingerhut for $499 with a 3 Ghz P4, 1 Gig of Ram and some Video Card from a Country you've never heard of to run Doom 3 any better.
I have found after Years of PC tinkering the one thing that has helped the most. Always stay with manufacturers who sleep with Microsoft!
They cost more but your safe! You might get lucky going downtown for love but in the end you'll save allot of Time, trouble and money in Aspirin if you stay within the dysfunctional Family and smile, knowing that your Family is allot more fun, productive and easy to get along with than the Apples across the Tracks up on the Hill.
Hope this helps. Did I get Wordy? I get so Wordy sometimes...
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Old June 20th, 2007 Top | #79
 
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Default system idle process

I didn't understand what Perris meant at the end of his explanation of the System Idle Process. Is it good or bad if it's over 90 and what exactly, in other words does it do?
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Old June 20th, 2007 Top | #80
 
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Default Re: system idle process

Originally Posted by Firstmate View Post
I didn't understand what Perris meant at the end of his explanation of the System Idle Process. Is it good or bad if it's over 90 and what exactly, in other words does it do?
is it good or bad to have the system idle process over 90?

that depends on what your definition of good or bad is

if the process is over 90 it means your processor is doing only about 10 percent of what it's capable

this is good if you all of a sudden want to do something else there are plenty of resources available

it's bad in the sense that most of your computing ability is being wasted

all the process does is indicate how much of your processor is not being used...90 means your processor is not using 90 percent of it's capability


Perris Calderon of Carls fence.
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