Sun or ms virtual machine?

**perris** · January 19th, 2003

which is better, and why

**Teddy** · January 19th, 2003

I'd vote for MS....mainly because its better supported.

January 19th, 2003

Sun is the creator of Java, hence they have a better VM IMHO. Some people may womder why they get an icon in the taskbar while using suns Java, but you can change that VIA the control panel applet for transparent reasons...

Who said Microsoft gives better support for there VM?? Microsoft specifically took it out of there OS because of there ongoing battle with Sun. Microsoft were retards acting like spoiled kids, nine out of ten sites use some sort of Jave in there HTML and Microsoft was upset with Sun so they decided to take it out... It's not difficult to download it yourself, but there are plenty of "end-users" out there who don't even know what Java is... What about them? I'm glad the courts are making them add Java support again.... What were they thinking?

So while it may be easier to download Microsofts version, Suns is better IMO...

**SPeedY_B** · January 19th, 2003

Sun, they created it, Microsoft simply ripped them off.
They tend to do that a lot.

January 19th, 2003

No doubt...

I can't say I'm knocking Microsoft, I mean I support there products on a daily basis and it pays me well... Just telling it like it is.

**Teddy** · January 19th, 2003

I meant better supported in the way of number of users using MS Internet Explorer ALREADY installed with their MS JVM. That is all. I wasnt referring to which company supported their product most.

Maybe i should have said 'wider user base'.

This equates to it being 'better' (IMO!) as people/companies/whoever who are creating websites know that the LARGE majority off net surfers have IE and MS JVM already installed on their machines and therefore code their pages and test them using IE or equivalent browsers.

Who knows, with this new ruling things may change but for now MS is better.

PS To back this up i once installed Sun's JVM and disabled MS JVM and ran into heaps of problems (mainly lots of popup boxes on web pages telling me that 'Line 23 error ......") which prevented me from accessing web pages as freely as i would have normally.

January 19th, 2003

That's funny, I have never had any problems with it... If that's the case everyone will be getting your errors soon:

US District Court Judge J. Frederick Motz ruled late Wednesday that Microsoft will have to bundle Sun's version of Java in Windows XP within 120 days, a compromise of sorts between the schedules sought by the two companies. Sun had wanted its Java included in Windows XP within 90 days, while Microsoft was asking for several months.

scsa20 · January 19th, 2003

hahaha, I get those errors but only because I have some debugging programs installed that looks for those kind of errors (what do you expect from Visual Studios??) just disable script debug by going to your Internet Option>Advanced and put a check mark next to Disable Script Debug (hopefully it'll be there

)... back to the java, I'm using SUN's java thing right now, but can't really say which I like more, but Microsoft ripped it from sun, so I'm going with sun instead of switching back to MS

**perris** · January 19th, 2003

very interesting...50 50 so far

**Teddy** · January 19th, 2003

Im just stating my experiences here. I was just answering his question.

I've had problems, others may not have.

sdibias, you say Suns JVM is better, do go ahead and explain what Suns JVM has over MS's version?

**gonaads** · January 19th, 2003

Well first, this is how it all started:

(from http://www.teknirvana.com/internal_d...ts/Lawsuit.pdf)

The Facts
The announcement and widespread popularity of the JAVA Programming language resulted in an
immediate appreciation of the threat posed by Sun's JAVA technology to the foundations of the
Microsoft monopoly. So pronounced was the threat that in September 1996, Bill Gates warned his
staff "This scares the hell out of me".
Microsoft had three legitimate choices:
· Ignore Sun's technology and hope that it would fail.
· Independently develop and distribute products that incorporated its own technology to
compete against JAVA.
· License JAVA technology from Sun and become a distributor of products that incorporate
JAVA technology.
Microsoft chose the third option.
On March 11th, 1996, Microsoft entered into two written agreements (the "contract") with Sun
Microsystems. The two agreements included a Trademark license and a Technology License and
Distribution Agreement (TLDA). These agreements granted Microsoft the right to make and
distribute products incorporating Sun's JAVA Technology, and to mark such products with Sun's
JAVA Compatible trademark.

And here is this:
(from http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-...05/119867.html Aug. 2002)

>What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs.
>Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks".

Microsoft's JVM is stuck at version 1.1.4.
Sun's JVM is at version 1.4 and is much more mature.

Microsoft's JVM only runs on Microsoft Windows.
Sun's JVM runs on a variety of platforms.

Microsoft's JVM has hooks to the Win32 API's (J/Direct).
Sun's JVM has also hooks for native code, but you have
to develop them yourself.

Microsoft's JVM was very fast, but this is probably a
moot point because of its age. Newer JVM's not only
made progress in features, but also in speed.

Microsoft has publicly stated they won't support Java
soon. (In a couple of years?).

So it's kinda... "Pick the one you like"

**gonaads** · January 19th, 2003

And if you really want some commentary on this. Try this link:

http://developer.sys-con.com/viewitem.cfm?thread=6332

**Henyman** · January 19th, 2003

i am using m$ java machine cus it works

+ i have had no reason 2 change

**Hipster Doofus** · January 20th, 2003

i am using sun java cus it works

+ i have had no reason 2 change

**Henyman** · January 20th, 2003

January 20th, 2003

Im using Suns Java becuase it works. Ive only had one site that caused a problem using suns and that was the java chat at yahoo groups.

**Henyman** · January 20th, 2003

it's still 50/50 with 7 votes either way

January 20th, 2003

I'm currently using VM just b/c I didn't feel like d/ling and installing Sun's Java after my most recent format. I don't see any advantage to one over the other. In theory, Sun would have better support for it since Sun did create Java. Whether or not they do, I couldn't say b/c I haven't had any problems with either.

**perris** · January 20th, 2003

well, here is the reason I asked in the first place

as most of you know, I experimented with opera, (didn't like it)

opera installed sun.

as everyone knows, one thing I hate is clutter...well, those java icons in my taskbar, and on some sites drive me nutz.

when I decided opera sucked, I uninstalled it, which seems to have fujucked up my virtual machine also, as now, especially on yahoo games, the server is eating up all of my ram...(I hate when that happens)

so, I did a restore, and all is well...but I was wondering if sun has an advantage of any kind over ie machine, and I would decide which to use for performance

it seems there is no performance advantage from either source, so I will stay with the one that gives less clutter.

thanx for all the imput

January 23rd, 2003

Hey Dealer, I turn the console off and don't let it show up on the task bar...it gets annoying. I have a control panel applett that let's me stop that from happening. In the control panel it's named Java plug-in. the name of the file in the system32 folder is jpicpl32.cpl

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #1
perris OSNN Godlike Veteran Joined: January 2002 Location: new york Posts: 12,258 Reputation: 4333 Power: 291	Sun or ms virtual machine? which is better, and why IT'S NOT WHAT YOU'VE DONE IT'S WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #2
Teddy Boogie Nights...! Joined: July 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,551 Reputation: 70 Power: 136	I'd vote for MS....mainly because its better supported. Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need the money. Dance like no one is watching!

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #4
SPeedY_B I may actually be insane. Joined: March 2002 Location: Midlands, England Posts: 15,800 Reputation: 2877 Power: 310	Sun, they created it, Microsoft simply ripped them off. They tend to do that a lot. 1. SPeedYB.co.uk 2. CamPortal.co.uk 3. MacIRC.co.uk

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #6
Teddy Boogie Nights...! Joined: July 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,551 Reputation: 70 Power: 136	I meant better supported in the way of number of users using MS Internet Explorer ALREADY installed with their MS JVM. That is all. I wasnt referring to which company supported their product most. Maybe i should have said 'wider user base'. This equates to it being 'better' (IMO!) as people/companies/whoever who are creating websites know that the LARGE majority off net surfers have IE and MS JVM already installed on their machines and therefore code their pages and test them using IE or equivalent browsers. Who knows, with this new ruling things may change but for now MS is better. PS To back this up i once installed Sun's JVM and disabled MS JVM and ran into heaps of problems (mainly lots of popup boxes on web pages telling me that 'Line 23 error ......") which prevented me from accessing web pages as freely as i would have normally. Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need the money. Dance like no one is watching!

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #7
sdibias Unregistered Posts: n/a	That's funny, I have never had any problems with it... If that's the case everyone will be getting your errors soon: US District Court Judge J. Frederick Motz ruled late Wednesday that Microsoft will have to bundle Sun's version of Java in Windows XP within 120 days, a compromise of sorts between the schedules sought by the two companies. Sun had wanted its Java included in Windows XP within 90 days, while Microsoft was asking for several months.

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January 19th, 2003	Top \| #3
sdibias Unregistered Posts: n/a	Sun is the creator of Java, hence they have a better VM IMHO. Some people may womder why they get an icon in the taskbar while using suns Java, but you can change that VIA the control panel applet for transparent reasons... Who said Microsoft gives better support for there VM?? Microsoft specifically took it out of there OS because of there ongoing battle with Sun. Microsoft were retards acting like spoiled kids, nine out of ten sites use some sort of Jave in there HTML and Microsoft was upset with Sun so they decided to take it out... It's not difficult to download it yourself, but there are plenty of "end-users" out there who don't even know what Java is... What about them? I'm glad the courts are making them add Java support again.... What were they thinking? So while it may be easier to download Microsofts version, Suns is better IMO...

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #5
sdibias Unregistered Posts: n/a	No doubt... I can't say I'm knocking Microsoft, I mean I support there products on a daily basis and it pays me well... Just telling it like it is.

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #8
scsa20 Simonsoft Network Joined: May 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 236 Reputation: 0 Power: 100	hahaha, I get those errors but only because I have some debugging programs installed that looks for those kind of errors (what do you expect from Visual Studios??) just disable script debug by going to your Internet Option>Advanced and put a check mark next to Disable Script Debug (hopefully it'll be there )... back to the java, I'm using SUN's java thing right now, but can't really say which I like more, but Microsoft ripped it from sun, so I'm going with sun instead of switching back to MS

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #9
perris OSNN Godlike Veteran Joined: January 2002 Location: new york Posts: 12,258 Reputation: 4333 Power: 291	very interesting...50 50 so far IT'S NOT WHAT YOU'VE DONE IT'S WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #10
Teddy Boogie Nights...! Joined: July 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,551 Reputation: 70 Power: 136	Im just stating my experiences here. I was just answering his question. I've had problems, others may not have. sdibias, you say Suns JVM is better, do go ahead and explain what Suns JVM has over MS's version? Love like you've never been hurt. Work like you don't need the money. Dance like no one is watching!

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #11
gonaads Beware the G-Man Joined: March 2002 Location: XP-erience, NTFS, OSNN, Bay Area, California Posts: 18,474 Reputation: 4070 Power: 348	Well first, this is how it all started: (from http://www.teknirvana.com/internal_d...ts/Lawsuit.pdf) The Facts The announcement and widespread popularity of the JAVA Programming language resulted in an immediate appreciation of the threat posed by Sun's JAVA technology to the foundations of the Microsoft monopoly. So pronounced was the threat that in September 1996, Bill Gates warned his staff "This scares the hell out of me". Microsoft had three legitimate choices: · Ignore Sun's technology and hope that it would fail. · Independently develop and distribute products that incorporated its own technology to compete against JAVA. · License JAVA technology from Sun and become a distributor of products that incorporate JAVA technology. Microsoft chose the third option. On March 11th, 1996, Microsoft entered into two written agreements (the "contract") with Sun Microsystems. The two agreements included a Trademark license and a Technology License and Distribution Agreement (TLDA). These agreements granted Microsoft the right to make and distribute products incorporating Sun's JAVA Technology, and to mark such products with Sun's JAVA Compatible trademark. And here is this: (from http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-...05/119867.html Aug. 2002) >What are the differences, and relative benefits, of the Sun Java VM vs. >Microsoft's VM? Objective advice, please, no "because microsoft sucks". Microsoft's JVM is stuck at version 1.1.4. Sun's JVM is at version 1.4 and is much more mature. Microsoft's JVM only runs on Microsoft Windows. Sun's JVM runs on a variety of platforms. Microsoft's JVM has hooks to the Win32 API's (J/Direct). Sun's JVM has also hooks for native code, but you have to develop them yourself. Microsoft's JVM was very fast, but this is probably a moot point because of its age. Newer JVM's not only made progress in features, but also in speed. Microsoft has publicly stated they won't support Java soon. (In a couple of years?). So it's kinda... "Pick the one you like" *"I play violent video games, I could snap at any second."*

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #12
gonaads Beware the G-Man Joined: March 2002 Location: XP-erience, NTFS, OSNN, Bay Area, California Posts: 18,474 Reputation: 4070 Power: 348	And if you really want some commentary on this. Try this link: http://developer.sys-con.com/viewitem.cfm?thread=6332 *"I play violent video games, I could snap at any second."*

January 19th, 2003	Top \| #13
Henyman Secret Goat Fetish Joined: June 2002 Location: Dorset, England Posts: More Than You Posts: 9,602 Reputation: 3548 Power: 253	i am using m$ java machine cus it works + i have had no reason 2 change http://Henyman.com

January 20th, 2003	Top \| #14
Hipster Doofus Good grief Charlie Brown Joined: May 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 5,920 Reputation: 560 Power: 187	i am using sun java cus it works + i have had no reason 2 change Pentium 4 2.6ghz 400mhz @ 3.07ghz 472mhz / Gigabyte GA-8IHXP v2.1 / RAMBUS PC 800 768mb / Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 256mb / 2 x Maxtor 80gb ATA133 DiamondMax, RAID0 :: 1 x Western Digital 7200 40gb / Liteon DVD-RW Dual Layer SOHW-1633S @ 1653S / Liteon 52x24x52 CD-RW LTR-52246S / Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu Fan / Antec TruePower 480w / RD3XP Gladiator Rounded Cables

January 20th, 2003	Top \| #15
Henyman Secret Goat Fetish Joined: June 2002 Location: Dorset, England Posts: More Than You Posts: 9,602 Reputation: 3548 Power: 253	http://Henyman.com

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January 20th, 2003	Top \| #16
m4dh0 Unregistered Posts: n/a	Im using Suns Java becuase it works. Ive only had one site that caused a problem using suns and that was the java chat at yahoo groups.

January 20th, 2003	Top \| #17
Henyman Secret Goat Fetish Joined: June 2002 Location: Dorset, England Posts: More Than You Posts: 9,602 Reputation: 3548 Power: 253	it's still 50/50 with 7 votes either way http://Henyman.com

January 20th, 2003	Top \| #18
Jahya Unregistered Posts: n/a	I'm currently using VM just b/c I didn't feel like d/ling and installing Sun's Java after my most recent format. I don't see any advantage to one over the other. In theory, Sun would have better support for it since Sun did create Java. Whether or not they do, I couldn't say b/c I haven't had any problems with either.

January 20th, 2003	Top \| #19
perris OSNN Godlike Veteran Joined: January 2002 Location: new york Posts: 12,258 Reputation: 4333 Power: 291	well, here is the reason I asked in the first place as most of you know, I experimented with opera, (didn't like it) opera installed sun. as everyone knows, one thing I hate is clutter...well, those java icons in my taskbar, and on some sites drive me nutz. when I decided opera sucked, I uninstalled it, which seems to have fujucked up my virtual machine also, as now, especially on yahoo games, the server is eating up all of my ram...(I hate when that happens) so, I did a restore, and all is well...but I was wondering if sun has an advantage of any kind over ie machine, and I would decide which to use for performance it seems there is no performance advantage from either source, so I will stay with the one that gives less clutter. thanx for all the imput IT'S NOT WHAT YOU'VE DONE IT'S WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO

January 23rd, 2003	Top \| #20
sdibias Unregistered Posts: n/a	Hey Dealer, I turn the console off and don't let it show up on the task bar...it gets annoying. I have a control panel applett that let's me stop that from happening. In the control panel it's named Java plug-in. the name of the file in the system32 folder is jpicpl32.cpl