Why Flame the GeForce FX?

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Electronic Punk
My Nvidia contact was more than happy to verify this:

Those who are in the know said that Nvidia, which had a stand at IDF this year, were taking people round the back and showing them NV35, which works at 256-bit quite fine, and runs at half the heat of the NV30.

But he wouldn't tell me when it was coming out. No matter what it is, I am buying the fastest (normal not quadro or owt daft like that) card on the market.

btw thats the exact same words regugitated from theinquirer

my non-nvidia contacts say that the product was one of the first samples back from the fab and not representative of the final product

 

[Electronic Punk]

Yeah sorry, thats were he directed me at... not a co-incidence or owt

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Electronic Punk
Yeah sorry, thats were he directed me at... not a co-incidence or owt

 

[jonifen]

Originally posted by Sazar
now they want a high frame rate with Level Of Detail (LOD) maxed out and AA and FSAA enabled to give maximum eye candy... the 9700pro from ati was the first card on the market able to do this with highly playable frame rates... nvidia had claimed they would be able to do better...

Ive never found Nvidia graphics cards able to work GOOD with all fsaa etc turned on. I've also always got nvidia cards because everyone rated them highly, and I began to rate them really well too... until my g/f got an ATi Radeon 8500LE 128Mb... I tested it with all sorts of settings, and I was purely amazed by how slight the performance was impacted by turning the colour depth to 32bit, turning FSAA on etc. I can honestly say after experiencing an ATi, my next card will also be one

Nvidia should really sit back and look at how their cards are working against the competitors' offerings before publicising something they cant actually offer themselves. Continual nvidia customers are hearing how much better the ATi cards are nowadays, and they're trying them for themselves... if they're as impressed as I was, then nvidia are gonna be where ATi were a few years back... dusting off the 8mb rage pro cards on shop shelves and thinking of how to beat the nvidia revolution.

 

[deadzombie]

I do think it's funny that so many people are calling nVidias demise just because ATI currently has the gamer performance crown. Let's look at the entire market for a second, and see how nVidias made some amazing gains this past year:

1.) Game consoles; nVidia is still making a slight profit from the xBox, and will be in the second generation console. ATI is stuck in the Game Cube, which is far behind PS2 & xBox in profitability. nVidia has a future in xBox.

2.) GeForce2go has gained incredible ground in the laptop market. An area nVidia had no viable market share in a few years ago, nVidia now dominates the laptop graphics market, which was once dominated by ATI.

3.) nVidia pushed further into Apple systems, with the inclusion of of GeForce cards in iMacs, iBooks, TiBooks and G4's...nVidia has taken over an area that was once the sole domain of ATI. Some Apple systems still include or offer the option of an ATI card, but they are fewer and farther between...

4.) Probably the most surprising area nVidia has moved into is the motherboard market. The nForce2 is an amazing chipset, delivering memory, sound, graphics solutions that add up to an amazing motherboard. For the first time since the beginning of the PC market, nVidia actually offers a complete solution to motherboard manufacturers...this is an area I'll be watching with anticipation, as nVidias second offering in the nForce2 is damn near amazing.

And let's not forget, nVidia still has an amazing share of the PC gamer market and the professional workstation market. They'll come back fighting with the NV35...and while I don't think it will retake the performance crown from a driver tuned R350 (which will be released at least a few months before the NV53). I'd imagine nVidia has something surprising up it's sleeve - like how it killed 3Dfx with the GeForce. I'll be very surprised if nVidia drops the ball against ATI - it will just take time.

Speaking of 3Dfx, I'm not certain how many of you remember the speculation of how much trouble nVidia was in when the new Voodoo's were being released...we've heard this scenario before. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[ignipotentis]

While i have no reason to suspect your BSing every one E-Punk, untill i actually see the product, its a paper release. Paper releases do nothing for me as i cannot use them. So curently, i'll give my vote of aproval to ATI and the 9700 pro. I do agree with you though, i could care less who wins, just as long as the product is good and i don't have to pay a fortune for it.

On a personal note, i'll start caring about Nvidia again when they come out with a viable (read, worth it) solution against the AIW line from ATI. Untill then, i'm ATI all the way.

 

[syn]

ok peoples, lets settle this...its been months since the 9700pro was released. geforce fx should be well ahead of the 9700, but frankly its not. it should be outperforming it in all aspects but the video card giant nvidia got a little scared cause canadian ati put out a monster of a card that blew the gf ti series out of the water. they should have just waited until they got more of the technology down to release the nv series.

i love nvidia, i love ati, right now ati has nvidia by the cungadungas. and for your console stuff, xbox came out when nvidia was giant and ati let out a few very disappointing cards. you know how much the price of the console would be jacked up if they used their powerhouse instead of the gf3 that is currently in there? i think not

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by deadzombie
I do think it's funny that so many people are calling nVidias demise just because ATI currently has the gamer performance crown. Let's look at the entire market for a second, and see how nVidias made some amazing gains this past year:

1.) Game consoles; nVidia is still making a slight profit from the xBox, and will be in the second generation console. ATI is stuck in the Game Cube, which is far behind PS2 & xBox in profitability. nVidia has a future in xBox.

2.) GeForce2go has gained incredible ground in the laptop market. An area nVidia had no viable market share in a few years ago, nVidia now dominates the laptop graphics market, which was once dominated by ATI.

3.) nVidia pushed further into Apple systems, with the inclusion of of GeForce cards in iMacs, iBooks, TiBooks and G4's...nVidia has taken over an area that was once the sole domain of ATI. Some Apple systems still include or offer the option of an ATI card, but they are fewer and farther between...

4.) Probably the most surprising area nVidia has moved into is the motherboard market. The nForce2 is an amazing chipset, delivering memory, sound, graphics solutions that add up to an amazing motherboard. For the first time since the beginning of the PC market, nVidia actually offers a complete solution to motherboard manufacturers...this is an area I'll be watching with anticipation, as nVidias second offering in the nForce2 is damn near amazing.

And let's not forget, nVidia still has an amazing share of the PC gamer market and the professional workstation market. They'll come back fighting with the NV35...and while I don't think it will retake the performance crown from a driver tuned R350 (which will be released at least a few months before the NV53). I'd imagine nVidia has something surprising up it's sleeve - like how it killed 3Dfx with the GeForce. I'll be very surprised if nVidia drops the ball against ATI - it will just take time.

Speaking of 3Dfx, I'm not certain how many of you remember the speculation of how much trouble nVidia was in when the new Voodoo's were being released...we've heard this scenario before. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

let me put a couple of mis-conceptions to rest

1. nvidia no doubt has a brilliant gpu in the xbox... they are not making a profit because the xbox is making a profit... to the contrary they will get their contractually obligated sum from m$ based on projections m$ put forth and has not met... the arbitration ruling in favor of nvidia was for this... and ati did nothing concerning the gamecube gpu it was a company called ArtX which ati bought and finalised negotiations with on the flipper chipset... if you compare the 2 with raw processing power.. the flipper does a very admirable job considering the 'cpu' is a lot slower than in the xbox...

2. nvidia sells gpu's based on their reputation... having a top performer on the market = more OEM sales and therefore more sales in lower-end markets... @ the moment ati has a CLEAR lead in mobile processing units and has the most powerful mobile processor on the market... and with the m10's release shortly... the lead will only be extended...

3. ati has been supporting linux/apple as well... perhaps the market penetration was not as great as nvidia's but nvidia has more money and much greater sales based on reasons in section 2 above... reputation sells...

4. there is no doubt the nforce2 platform is brilliant... it certainly is a welcome change from the ridiculous nforce setup they bandied around and nvidia is the clear choice for socket A motherboards... via took its lead for granted I think... sis caught em and now the nforce platform is up there as well so enthusiasts market surely is being controlled by nvidia in terms of motherboards... and I am glad they brought out a dual cpu setup... that will be quite attractive as well..

concerning the gpu market... over the most recent months ati has outsold nvidia... this by a company that had an at least 2:1 disadvantage in sales previously...

nvidia has for far too long relied on just rehashing its old cores and selling it as 'new' products... heck the more you read about it... the more the gf FX seems to be an upgraded core moved to a smaller process (yah ok.. it is new tech )

the fact is that nvidia is a product cycle behind now... heck almost TWO product cycles behind @ the rate the gf FX keeps getting delayed...

also... please do not say that ati has been tuning drivers a lot longer than nvidia... the products have existed for almost the same amount of time... nvidia is basically tweaking and tweaking... their drivers SHOULD be pretty stable... after all when did the product tape out ? WAY back when...

nvidia should have a decent release in the nv35... but the r400 like I said is due to be the behemoth of the year in terms of RAW performance and with FSAA and AA enabled... well we shall see...

if the nv40 can be released before schedule.. perhaps nvidia will overcome this gap... but untill we see a stable gf FX ultra out on the market... all bets are off..

speaking of 3dfx... I am not sure if you are aware that nvidia would have probably gone under had they not bought the company (3dfx) for the lawsuits levied against nvidia for copyright infringement... they are not the most ethical of companies... hence my dislike for their PR et al...

 

[XP Abuser]

When is ati new card released???

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by XP Abuser
When is ati new card released???

first public samples for testing should be in march... perhaps..

 

[XP Abuser]

nice cheerz sazar im thinking of getting a new g card and the ati release would be perfect timing

 

[Taurus]

both AMD and Nvidia are slipping...

*puts knife to wrist*

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by taurus
both AMD and Nvidia are slipping...

*puts knife to wrist*

not really..

nvidia just stopped driving forward the way it has customarily done...

IMO they just got happy with their position and thought no one else could come close to the performance of their products.. after all the gf4ti 4600 was a monster card when it was released... quite a bit faster @ certain settings than the radeon 8500...

the 9700pro was a HUGE leap in technology... I doubt nvidia believed it could have been released to be as powerful as it was.... if you read their comments before the product launch they routinely pooh-pahed the product... until it came out.. and then silence... except for the extra loud whir of the FLOW FX as nvidia engineers worked overtime to overclock their 'flagship' product...



hence why I prefer to see performance transferred from the imagination of the engineers and the creativity of the design team... from paper to silicon and see the performance to judge it...

it is far beyond a contest of whose paper specs are the best... real world results never lie...

 

[Taurus]

yeah, it's all about ati making a right move and nvidia making a wrong move... at the same time.

so by that statement, i guess i'm predicting that nvidia's future product releases are going to be a little more stellar... and ati's going to remember the 9700pro era as one of their golden eras.

 

[Sazar]

Originally posted by taurus
yeah, it's all about ati making a right move and nvidia making a wrong move... at the same time.

so by that statement, i guess i'm predicting that nvidia's future product releases are going to be a little more stellar... and ati's going to remember the 9700pro era as one of their golden eras.

included in the product release therefore you will have to include the nforce2 platform and the xbox gpu

there are plenty of money making propositions...

concerning the video cards... you will have to catch me on other forums in relation to that

usually learn a fair amount about these products there... and try to bring that info over here and share... not likely to be doing that anymore though...

 

[Erbmaster]

Originally posted by black-syth
The FX also has a smaller memory bandwith than the 9700pro. I cant really criticize it too much because it still beats the crap out of my MX420, although my card is signficantly quieter

I bet your MX240 was several hundred pounds cheaper too.
I appreciate that we are paying for development, but c'mon nVidia....how can anyone justify a pricetag like the indication of the FX cards....at the end of the day it's silicon on PCB.

You can get a decent(ish) specced PC for the same price as one of nVidia's top end cards.

I've ALWAYS used nVidia cards since the 1st RIVA TNT, but I really think they've become a victim of their own success. I will certainly look elsewhere for a better value option, (although I think ATI need to learn how to drive all the lovely hardware they've created.)

Don't get greedy now nVidia.........NO manufacturer is above the consumer....without US..YOU wouldn't be!!!!.!!!!