Who Can Recompile A Vm Os?

[Perris Calderon]

they would have tried it on a dos os, not a virtual memory os

in addition, many times we tried to get into space before we were able to accomplish the feat.

as technology improved, it became possible

technology has surely improved since ibm may have tried this

 

[Krux]

yah Iceman don't hate

 

[Iceman]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Fatboy Slim - Star 69

you might be right dealer, maybe with new technology, I don't know

 

[Perris Calderon]

I'm going to make a very impoertant point, so everybody understands just how easy, and just how effective this concept is.

I stated the following in my first post, but I think I need to go more in depth for my proposal of our new os to make sense, and for everyone to see how easy this s to deploy;

lightning fast launch, lightning fast lauch of all of your programs, lighntning fast access to all of your work...this is what we are talking about

the nt kernal is already designed to put as much ram into use as it possibly can...even to the point of anticipating future activity from past patterns, and putting this information into ram.

the people that compile the nt kernal use the addage, and this is a direct quote from microsoft mvp alex nichole;

"free ram is wasted ram"...(this statement is a fact)...when you have ram that is not in use, your computer is not as fast as it would be if that ram were in use...the very reason a ram releasing program would slow xp down...(quite a bit, btw)

at the same time, this information is written or addressed to the pagefile, incase the os's anticipation is incorrect, and thus, a seemless release of ram for current calling

and this is exactly why there is a pagefile, and this is exactly why it needs to be bigger then the amount of ram you have installed.

but that is another thread

now, this is how the nt kernal is already compiled.

for instance, if the nt kernal could actually recognize 20 gigs, (it can't), then the nt kernal would allready put the entire hardrive (if it were 20 gigs) into ram

all microsft has to do is compile the next os to recognize 20 gigs

then, if you have a twenty gig hardrive, the vm os will automatically store whatever it can get ahold of in ram.

so the groundwork is already done

and this exactly the idea

 

[JohnnyGreb]

My (almost) perfect computer

Here's what I would like to see:
The entire power supply removed from the computer. It's a seperate box with the DC feeds I need going right to the computer, or ideally, biuld into the house somewhere and I can tap off it where ever I need. This makes power outages much easier to handle as battery backup can be of the low voltage DC kind. A lot cheaper than traditional UPS we have now. You could even get away with using a 9V battery in the computer to keep everything going for a short time. (Actually this could be done now with current technology)

The Harddrives removed completely. 100% Solid state storage. Traditional volatile ram (DDR, SD,etc) we have now as normal, and Flash(?) ram for "storage". I've got a couple of memory sticks and a Smart Card I use for storage. Basically they are tiny drives, and Windows sees them as drives. They don't lose anything even without power for long periods of time. In the event of power loss all you'd technically need to protect is the volatile ram. Flash ram is slower by it nature, but not that slow.

Water cooling for everything, as one pump would be almost silent as compared to even the best fans. And a special coating for all exposed contacts to prevent accidents.

All these things are available now, but none of them have been combined into something truely useful. The main point, of course, is the hard drives. But honestly, I think the days of HD's are numbered. The HD's advantage is price. A 64MB memory stick is down to about ~$40. But it's still got a ways to go before it can compete with HDs. But eventually, it could. And by that time, flash ram would be faster as well. (Currently it's not quite fast enough for use as "real" ram)

Solid state is silent and you can throw it across the room without damaging it. Try that with a Hard Drive.

A bit off track, but this is how I see things and where they can go. It's just not the Hard Drive issue, it's the whole hardware picture I look at.


-Ryandor

 

[XP Abuser]

ok i got a great idea (dealer dont assault me pleez) what about a USB solar electric panel wouldnt that be sweet (especially in sunny countrys) england would be a bit f**ked though.

back on topic ...

i dont think that alot of people have grasped dealers concept... and yeh it maybe true that IBM tried this **** out 20 years ago working with 64k of ram and a 10mhz cpu and 512mb hard drive but what about today things have changed so it would work good dont know what the price would be for 100gb of flash ram, and the development of an OS but its still a good idea

i L'dMAO at ryandors post he came up with some good ideas but nothing to do with dealers idea

 

[JohnnyGreb]

XP Abuser: Like I said a bit off topic, but related still. I'm looking at a bigger picture. The ram drive is just one aspect of what would be a good future of computers.

-Ryandor

 

[dave holbon]

When I first started in computing “hard drives” did not exist (except as an idea). Computing was not built into modules as now where you can considerer cpu’s memory, storage, drives etc (and hence bottlenecks) and other modules as different components, there were only components acting as switches configured in different ways. This can be traced back to the second word war and work done by both the American and British Military, one involved in the development of the Nuclear Bomb, the other breaking codes from the “Enigma Machine” (as a side issue this was a complete waste of resources as the Germans had patented the machine and the plans were in fact in the Patent Office before the war started, which is not a stones throw away from the then British Military Headquarters in Whitehall London). In 1940 ENIAC's (18,000 valves) original programming group was in fact, six women using desktop calculators (no not Casio ones) and was used to calculate artillery firing tables, these were probably the first programmers.

Anyway I mention the above because the hard drive evolved as an “economic” solution to storage problems as at the time the first hard drives appeared one megabit of memory would have set you back one million dollars (if I remember correctly).

This in short is the history of the computer since the 50’s, it’s economy driven, not just technology driven. Solid-state hard drives have been around a long time but their cost is prohibitive, even today. Mechanical hard drives won’t exist in just a few years time and when you by a motherboard it will come with a 100gig solid state drive built onto the main system bus, directly connected to the CPU, it will then be built into the CPU itself as the original computers were designed. Then we will be back to where we started.

Arguments about these types of things are discussions about economics and not computing. Of course Microsoft sells things using arguments not a million miles away from economic arguments, in fact you could say that their entire publicity machine does nothing else. Hard drives are a bottleneck by design as is any storage device not directly connected to the CPU.

My vision of the future of the computer is a one-chip computer with 25 CPU’s the size of a pinhead containing one terabyte of memory and one bus for peripheral connections. The energy device to run this chip will also be built into it and will last five years. Can you imagine the applications for this device because I can’t?

Wandered of a bit there, never mind.

 

[Perris Calderon]

well, I just got turned onto this great program

this program gives you a virtual boot environment, without needing a new partition, this boot environment runs like a program.

in other words, you can boot to linux, or any os, and toggle back and forth between your os's, just like minimizing a program...ohhh baby!!!!

in addition, this is an actual environment, and speeds look to me like they will be identical to running any os on it's own partition.

further, this program will permanently store your work in an encapsulated (probably a container file) file.

it will also take a snapshot, and you can return to the exact position of your work

this means, you will be able to return to whatever you were doing even after you shut down.

now, I'm sure those of you that already develop know about this beauty, but I never heard of it before, so bear with my euphoria

ok

when one of you geniuses start to compile my new os, you will be able to let us download boot discs, and we will alpha test, wtihout any risc whatsoever to our box.

sweeeeeet

 

[NetRyder]

Originally posted by dealer
well, I just got turned onto this great program

this program gives you a virtual boot environment, without needing a new partition, this boot environment runs like a program.

in other words, you can boot to linux, or any os, and toggle back and forth between your os's, just like minimizing a program...ohhh baby!!!!

in addition, this is an actual environment, and speeds look to me like they will be identical to running any os on it's own partition.

further, this program will permanently store your work in an encapsulated (probably a container file) file.

it will also take a snapshot, and you can return to the exact position of your work

this means, you will be able to return to whatever you were doing even after you shut down.

now, I'm sure those of you that already develop know about this beauty, but I never heard of it before, so bear with my euphoria

ok

when one of you geniuses start to compile my new os, you will be able to let us download boot discs, and we will alpha test, wtihout any risc whatsoever to our box.

sweeeeeet

Hehe...I have been using VMware for years now

It's really neat, but it doesn't run as fast as it would in a dual-boot environment since in this case, both Windows (the host) and Linux (the guest) are sharing RAM and CPU cycles at the same time.
It's a great way to play around with new distros, but if you want to do anything intensive, dual-boot is the way to go.

 

[Perris Calderon]

you're right net, but I am considering the envirnment, and not the compared envirnment.

so tell me

compared to an os running on the same cpu cycle and the same ram, doe the virtual os run as fast as a box running the same hardware that you asign to the virutal os?

 

[NetRyder]

Linux running within VMware on a Windows host is slower than Linux running separately from Windows (as in a dual-boot situation)

 

[Perris Calderon]

shux

it's still great.

thax netster:blink:

 

[NetRyder]

Yeah, it's really awesome to try out new OS's. I used it to try out most of the *nix distros I played with

 

[dave holbon]

And I thought I was wandering of thread!

Operating System emulators (in software) always fail. No software developer of any standing uses such a thing as I have found out to my cost over the years of using them during the development cycle. They just can’t and don’t work.

The complexity of Operating System design and development is beyond even a team of top-flight programmers (Linux is an active example). Do you think this can be successfully emulated in another operating system using software, it just can’t be done and if you believe that it can you work for Microsuds!

You can achieve a near simulation and nothing else.

Would you test your carefully crafted (eight year C++) project to an emulator when the real thing is available at fraction of the cost? I doubt it.

Listen to your brain.

 

[Perris Calderon]

yes david, you would;

this program does not emulate the os...you are still booting with an actual os disc.

this program emulates the boot.

so you are working on the actual os.

yes, of course you would work on this, and when you get something workable with this much easier medium, you go to a breakable box and try it again.

but you have to be able to boot a breakable box to go further...this program lets you work, get something try-able, then try your work on another box

so, when you get your proggy to work, you can try it on your breakable box...instead of breaking your box 100's of times just to get something that works

then you work on this again, and so on..., with this you switch back and forth when your work fails/...till y get to another workable Plato\\

and that's what this program is perfect for.

and of course I'd od it tis way

 

[dave holbon]

No professional software developer uses anything other that an original operating system to test his or her software. You might well operate you programme under an emulator within another environment but it proves nothing at all.

Yes you can load XP, Win 98, 200 or even concurrent CPM but you can’t beat the original, real environment.

What you describe is nothing more that “multiple boot” system, loaded on request this you can achieve with a simple batch file.

 

[Perris Calderon]

no Dave, you are not following at all.

you cannot boot two os's on the same box at the same time, with differant partitions.

with this you can!!!

this is too simple, and too great a tool.

for instance, you develope on this os, you continue to crash the virtual os, (not an emulated os, an actual os, actually booted from the os disc), and when you crash, you just go back to a picture you took, and the last good onfiguration,

all this, while your actual os is running too!!!

when you crash, you just minimize the program, or close it down.

TWO OS'S RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME!!!

now, you do not stand correct as far as how pervasive this program is.

I was turne onto this program by someone developing a linux with it.

and quite a few of his collegues use it as well.

this makes your programming life much easier.

I guess I'm not describing the fassion of use well.

but I'm surely going to use this.

I see you won't agree, but this is a great program.

 

[dave holbon]

Originally posted by dealer
no Dave, you are not following at all.

you cannot boot two os's on the same box at the same time, with differant partitions.

with this you can!!!

this is too simple, and too great a tool.

for instance, you develope on this os, you continue to crash the virtual os, (not an emulated os, an actual os, actually booted from the os disc), and when you crash, you just go back to a picture you took, and the last good onfiguration,

all this, while your actual os is running too!!!

when you crash, you just minimize the program, or close it down.

TWO OS'S RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME!!!

now, you do not stand correct as far as how pervasive this program is.

I was turne onto this program by someone developing a linux with it.

and quite a few of his collegues use it as well.

this makes your programming life much easier.

I guess I'm not describing the fassion of use well.

but I'm surely going to use this.

I see you won't agree, but this is a great program.

Not to me it isn’t.

Operating systems require extremely low-level access to the processor, XP is a good example. If you think you can run multiple Os’s from the same CPU you are wrong, one must stop in order for the other to continue, multithreading Operating systems have yet to be invented. Most require a CPU each, some require multiple CPU’s, and none can run on a single CPU without emulating software. This is so complicated to design that no one has successfully. Only the emulation software can give you the impression that such a thing works and I suspect it does it by emulating the CPU registers in memory.
This is a sure fire line to disaster.

 

[yoyo]

It is a great program. You'll have to try it. It is fascinating and it is definitely widely used by software developers.

This evening while reading the forums I tried some themes in my XP home copy, extracted by request a bitmap from a Longhorn file, did some registry tweaking in XP pro, checked Win2k system files .... all in VMWare.

It is great!