Supreme Court OKs Medical Pot Prosecutions

[Perris Calderon]

I wouldn't consider that to be a sound analogy.

My view is that they are upholding law that already exists. There is a potential clash with the issue of interstate commerce, but referring to my previous question, were the other states producing their own marijuana?

your argument is fair, but I am pointing out the statement that "the bench didn't make law" is not correct by most accounts

I don't know if the other states were producing their own maryjane...the ruling would be fine if they didn't, but not fine for those that did

 

[muzikool]

your argument is fair, but I am pointing out the statement that "the bench didn't make law" is not correct by most accounts

I don't know if the other states were producing their own maryjane...the ruling would be fine if they didn't, but not fine for those that did

I can go along with that view. I guess the question is which would be a more severe ruling -- which would be writing law that would affect the most people (states)? California is affected because they grow domestically. That's one state we know of for certain. It's possible that up to 10 states have been affected the same way. A ruling that marijuana could be legally prescribed would have affected all 50 states.

Either way it looks like there could be the interpretation that law has been written from the bench.

 

[Mastershakes]

The US has spent billions trying to kill pot and wage a huge war on drugs since the 1920s when cheap labor from Mexico brought it up to smoke after a back breaking day of work.

So it's a fair assumption changes in your federal laws are a long way off.

Consult 'Reefer Madness' and prepare to understand how the US government mis-managed and mis-spent your tax dollars for 80 years in it's useless war on drugs. Then proceed past GO and come on up here to Canada. We got lots of pot 4 y'all.

EDIT: and here in MTL we have some of the best shizz east of BC. and it's cheap. party on OSNN !

 

[muzikool]

I wouldn't characterize the war on drugs as useless. In part, it kept me from ever using illegal drugs. Education can be the best defense.

 

[X-Istence]

There is another good discussion on the topic of legalizing it on spammers-paradise.com: http://www.spammers-paradise.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10657

My post there is copied below

CNN did a report while i was in Mexico, in San Francisco the usage of weed was 80% among the population. In Amsterdam, where the drug is legal, it is only 40%. (Source CNN World Report, while flying from Houston to Newark).

This is interesting, as this means that less people in Amsterdam have experienced pot in some way, rather than what you would expect, that less people would have had experience with the drug in a city where it is illegal.

I think it has good medical uses, and that it should be used for that, but weed is just like alcohol. I heard this qoute on the the TV show Third Watch:

"The white man can have his three martini's a day, but the black man can't get some relaxation [from weed]".

This was in response to a white cop who arrested a black guy, but if you look around the racial context it is put in you will see that it makes sense. Alcohol is a major part of society, we accept it's side effects, and will always. Why can't be do the same for weed? What effect does it have on the body which is not worse than that caused by alcohol?

I found this great site which in a nutshell explains the similarities and differences between alcohol and weed: http://www.dpft.org/alcohol.htm

I feel that the fears associated with weed are false, and are baseless accusations which do not make sense. If people would look at it more closely they would notice that as well, but politicians want support, so they spout nonsense, they get a few votes, get re-elected and do what they do best.

(Here in the US, it costs almost 3 billion a year, which is paid for by the US tax payers, most of it is the time and money it costs to lock people up in jail for a night, and feed em. Cause of a few grams of something to smoke. Say no, and you'd better be footing a good part of that war on drugs).

very good thoughts X-Istence..
another reason why it's illegal is b'cuz it's
like prostitution anyone can sell it and the goverment
doesn't get a cut off the sales..so their against it.
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[snapback]218787[/snapback]​

In the netherlands it's sales tax that gets made of it, and since it is a source of income you pay federal taxes, so the gov't does get in on it if they would make the system right.

 

[Mastershakes]

Maybe I should upgrade 'useless' ... it's a complete failure.

Time to unlearn: http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc384.html

 

[muzikool]

Maybe I should upgrade 'useless' ... it's a complete failure.

Time to unlearn: http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc384.html

I went through the essay, reading some parts fully, other parts not (for good reason).

First off, it's not what it claims it is: "An In-Depth Study on The Failure of the War on Drugs." Its primary focus is marijuana prohibition... this is a very small part of the scope of the war on drugs. Also, the title itself establishes the fact that it's not going to be a fair essay... examining both sides. It's cynical and extremely judgmental (of the readers). When facts are actually used (and interpreted in some cases) to back the writer's argument, there is something worth looking at; but there is plenty of opinionated rhetoric that does nothing to lend credibility. Again, this essay does almost nothing to support the idea that America's war on drugs has been a failure. The writer comes off as arrogant and clearly has an agenda to lump something with such a huge scope into one small basket and say that it belongs in the trash. The essay belongs exactly where it is, because it is another perspective, and that's about it.

Upgrade "useless" to "complete failure?" How about calling that a downgrade?

 

[Unleashed]

For crying out loud, this political correctness rubbish is out of control. You can see the major degradation happening in society when a policeman is afraid to arrest a guy from an ethnic minority in case he gets called for racism. What a gip.

 

[muzikool]

For crying out loud, this political correctness rubbish is out of control. You can see the major degradation happening in society when a policeman is afraid to arrest a guy from an ethnic minority in case he gets called for racism. What a gip.

:agrees:

 

[Mastershakes]

aite, more reading....

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/warondrugs/

80 years and billions of dollars - nothing to show for it except millions who got caught puffin a j and are branded criminals, denied federal aid and such. Georgie and Billy got away with it, and got to run the country. (I can't verify this of course, just rumours)

The 'education' factor that convinced you not to use illegal drugs has always been a very small part of the budget. I got my education for free, from my parents, and from my teachers. The majority of the budget goes into enforcement.

The downward spiral started with prohibition. The only way out is change. After all these years, US administrations cannot change their tack, the whole idea is way too 'vested' .... they'd look like fools. The perpetual waste of your tax dollars will continue, and law enforcement will never let go of that budget without a fight. The drugs will continue to flow to your country from all directions until the war switches fronts.

I don't have a solution, nor am I an afficionado on this.... but I've always chuckled at the huge amount of money thrown at stopping the trade. This increases the value of the drugs on the market. Black markets thrive on the bottom line, profit.... you kill the profit, you shrink the market. Eventually only the big fish are left.... much easier to net them. They have thrown billions at the problem, and only managed to make it bigger. Your gun laws have not helped this of course.

 

[dreamliner77]

The affects are less worse then alcohol...

This subversion of the english language is another example of why it should NOT be legal.

 

[Son Goku]

I've never understood this whole taking it for pain relief. I think that's crap - there's only so much pain the human body can take before you pass out, and there are numerous painkillers out there that can help.
I've had more injuries than anyone I know, and have never had anything more powerful than aspirin, even when I had a knife put through my hand and two holes put through my jaw bone, and I've never seen the necessity to have more. People who say they need it for pain are kidding themselves.

Someone beat me to it, but ask a pregnant woman about pain... Sorry to be saying, but I think labor pains and child brith is far more painful then what you've described here...

One of the worst I've had a blood clot in my lower right leg. I went down to the doctors because I couldn't really straighten my leg (it hurt) and it was all swollen up. I sat in the emergency room (after the docs sent me to the hospital for a test on my leg) for about 6.5 hours to be seen.

Imagine for a minute all the blood going to the leg, and not having a return path to the heart (well in my case, almost true, as out of 5 major veins that return the blood, 4 of them which branch off each other were plugged up the clot was so big, leaving just one of the 5 veins in the front of the leg to return any blood). As such, the leg blows up like a ballon, the calf muscle is rock hard, and under the pressure of it all feels like it's ready to just pop off or explode outward off the leg... That's how it sort of felt. They gave me Vicadin (along with Heprin for a blood thinner the time I was in there) and expected the Vicadin would put me to sleep. No way, I got no sleep the entire night.

Looking at the article, it looks more like the states made a state law to allow Marajuana for medicinal purposes. I'm not familiar enough with the studies concerning it's use for medicinal purposes to comment of how much value it would be. Some narcotics like morphine have been used in medicine however... All said, I would have to say:

- If it's grown in state, and never leaves the state, then the Interstate Commerce clause wouldn't apply (as there is no interstate action)

- It would be rather crummy, a person goes to a doctor, gets a prescription, and supposedly the laws of the state say all is well; to then after the fact and in an ex post facto manner prosecute them, when according to the laws of their own state, it was OK...

 

[Unleashed]

80 years and billions of dollars - nothing to show for it except millions who got caught puffin a j and are branded criminals, denied federal aid and such. Georgie and Billy got away with it, and got to run the country. (I can't verify this of course, just rumours)

But they knew it was illegal in the first place, it was their fault for smoking it. Don't put the blame on the government for making them criminals - they did it themselves.

And Son Goku - as I said, you'll reach the threshold and conk out. My mother had me weighing in at 10.5 lbs, in the middle of a flood. She couldn't even get to a hospital, yet she has never complained once about the pain, or lack of painkillers. You live through it. I don't think that's any excuse to use narcotics for your own means.

And trust me, having a knife pushed through your hand whilst having your jaw smashed hurts. A lot. More than you could ever imagine.

 

[Tittles]

This subversion of the english language is another example of why it should NOT be legal.

:dead:

 

[Son Goku]

And Son Goku - as I said, you'll reach the threshold and conk out. My mother had me weighing in at 10.5 lbs, in the middle of a flood. She couldn't even get to a hospital, yet she has never complained once about the pain, or lack of painkillers. You live through it. I don't think that's any excuse to use narcotics for your own means.

There isn't necessarily a set threshoold at which all will necessarily conk out... Heck my mother has mentioned on multiple occassions, that while under general anesthetic (and where the doctors didn't think it was possible that she could be conscious), she was, and could give details of what was going on in the room around her...

As to using narcotics, morphine is a narcotic, and in some situations it's prescribed and without argument "must not allow people to take that".

And trust me, having a knife pushed through your hand whilst having your jaw smashed hurts. A lot. More than you could ever imagine.

Trust me, a blood clot in the leg, where the leg is blown up like a balloon, and feels like it's ready to explode, from the inside out hurts a whole hell of a lot. Arguably more then you could imagine unless you've been through it.

I heard one woman comment that she had both a blood clot and had kids. And though she did say that labor/giving birth is the worse of the two, she also said that going through the blood clot was right up there in terms of how much it hurt...

Since that time, I've awakened sometimes in the middle of the night (though it hasn't happened often) with my calf muscle all blown up to about 1.5 to 2 times the normal diameter of my leg, the muscle somewhat having changed shape (probably due to extreme blood pressure), and feeling like it's ready to explode under extreme pressure. I have to sit up for awhile to let the blood clear out of there. I've even screamed out in agony right upon and while awakening; and mind you, like my mother I have an extremely high threshold for pain. My mother has been through surgery before without anesthetic if it gives you an idea...

First time it happened (and I have wondered if the muscle would remain attached to my leg in the past when this happened at first) I went back down to the hospital. Given the recent history, they checked it out, and then told me that after a blood clot the valves in the veins in some patients never quite work right again. There isn't really much that can be done about it.

It doesn't happen often (did about a month ago, and before then a coupla years ago)... When it does, the muscle is messed up for a time, and I end up having to train it/ work it out some to get it back into shape/condition. No doubt damage is being done then...

Would I take something regularly for it? No, it's not even often or predictable enough. But given that, I can certainly understand people wanting some pain relief...

 

[lynchknot]

And trust me, having a knife pushed through your hand whilst having your jaw smashed hurts. A lot. More than you could ever imagine.

Trust me. Having been stabbed in the abdomen, severing an artery - WITH A SCREWDRIVER - is more than you could ever imagine. Doctors had to open me up and tie the artery off. Second degree burns hurt like hell as well. I do believe childbirth hurts more than I can imagine.

I've had toothaches with considerable pain.

Damn Son Goku, that sounds incredibly painful!

Not quite as painful but pressure-wise - my body tried to "give birth" to a golf ball sized boil through a pore in my skin. I could not sleep for a few days. It had to be lanced

There is no reason why anyone should have to tolerate severe pain. There is nothing wrong with taking Codeine or whatever - unless you have some reason to play the "tough guy"

 

[Petros]

I've bitten into a pizza and burned the roof of my mouth a couple of times.

 

[Son Goku]

Damn Son Goku, that sounds incredibly painful!

It doesn't feel all too good. And having experienced it (several times actually), this isn't the sorta thing I would go around wishing on anyone...

The bad side though, is that when it has happened, and after the blood has finally gotten out of there, swelling went down, I haven't been able to exactly walk right for a little time after... I'm also studying Tia Chi, and I can notice the difference/feel it in my form practice and what not as well...

It has taken several days to about a week for things to return to normal, no doubt the muscle to heal enough from the effects of it that I won't notice it anymore...

There is no reason why anyone should have to tolerate severe pain. There is nothing wrong with taking Codeine or whatever - unless you have some reason to play the "tough guy"

That's why the pain relievers are there, and why doctors (who have studied the medicine, and have a certain degree of expertise in this field) prescribe them in certain situations...

I'm not one to run to the medicine chest myself. Whenever I buy a bottle of some pain drug, something for a cold/flu, etc, the thing usually expires before I've even used 1/4 of the thing up, I use the stuff so infrequently... Certainly (and given the importance of sleep), if flu symptoms for instance, prevent me from sleeping, I'll take something to get a nights rest, though not always during the day...

But nonetheless, in these extreme cases? And further, having felt rather intense pain myself, I would neither negatively judge, nor condemn someone from taking something (especially if under a doctor's order) which is meant to make them feel a little better/make it easier for them to cope with what's ailing them...

 

[Unleashed]

I'm not saying they should have to endure pain, I'm just saying it's idiotic to prescribe something when there are perfectly good alternatives that are legally available.

 

[falconguard]

alcohol?


SonGoku, is that phlebitis that you have?